[Quito772]

Hello,

I found this forum a few weeks ago, have spent quite a bit of time reading threads, and have decided to add my own.

I am in my second lot of therapy (have previously had 1 year of weekly psychodynamic therapy), and am currently in 4x week psychoanalysis. I have been in analysis since April, and am finding it quite tough-going. I find it difficult to trust and to open up, and I'm not sure whether it is getting any easier - I thought it would have by now. I find the space between my analyst and I quite difficult to overcome, it feels like she is a long way from me (maybe partly because I can't see her? I don't know). There is a lot of silence during our sessions as well, which makes me panic, and I get convinced my T is angry at me for not speaking. I know I need to take control but part of me is just so desperate for her to lead me because I am tired of always leading the way. Going four times a week is helping me though; in my last therapy I found the week-long gap quite hard to handle. I am currently part-way through a lengthy summer break which I think may be why more doubts are creeping in, I am not yet able to keep my analyst alive inside my head for longer than a few days.

I know analysis is a long-term therapy, and I am in it for the long haul, but I would love to hear from anyone else who has experience of psychoanalysis or other similar issues in any type of therapy. Is it normal to find it so difficult? Will it get easier? How can I forge a relationship with someone who reflects so little? Or is that the point - it's a space purely for me to consider myself? I don't know, I'm not sure that makes much sense. How can I keep the relationship alive in my head? She just seems to fade away.

[Sabra]

Originally Posted by Quito772

Hello,

I found this forum a few weeks ago, have spent quite a bit of time reading threads, and have decided to add my own.

I am in my second lot of therapy (have previously had 1 year of weekly psychodynamic therapy), and am currently in 4x week psychoanalysis. I have been in analysis since April, and am finding it quite tough-going. I find it difficult to trust and to open up, and I'm not sure whether it is getting any easier - I thought it would have by now. I find the space between my analyst and I quite difficult to overcome, it feels like she is a long way from me (maybe partly because I can't see her? I don't know). There is a lot of silence during our sessions as well, which makes me panic, and I get convinced my T is angry at me for not speaking. I know I need to take control but part of me is just so desperate for her to lead me because I am tired of always leading the way. Going four times a week is helping me though; in my last therapy I found the week-long gap quite hard to handle. I am currently part-way through a lengthy summer break which I think may be why more doubts are creeping in, I am not yet able to keep my analyst alive inside my head for longer than a few days.

I know analysis is a long-term therapy, and I am in it for the long haul, but I would love to hear from anyone else who has experience of psychoanalysis or other similar issues in any type of therapy. Is it normal to find it so difficult? Will it get easier? How can I forge a relationship with someone who reflects so little? Or is that the point - it's a space purely for me to consider myself? I don't know, I'm not sure that makes much sense. How can I keep the relationship alive in my head? She just seems to fade away.

Good afternoon,

You are a better person than I if you can do in psychoanalysis. I, too would have a difficult time not being able to see the therapist. I need face to face to read body language etc. I understand exactly what you are saying. I can be alone with my thoughts any ole time. My best thinking is what got me in the situation. Give me some feedback or a facial expression to let me know is getting it.

Is it possible to go back to your former therapist or another who uses psychodynamic?

Regards,

Sabra

[tinyrabbit]

Can I ask what made you stop doing psychodynamic therapy and what made you choose psychoanalysis? I do think it's normal to find it difficult, and I suppose the thing is for you to be sure that this difficulty is the right thing for you to be working through. (Not saying it isn't, just throwing a question out there.)

[Wren_]

I haven't experienced the kind of psychoanalysis you are describing ... but if you are finding the disconnect hard because you can't see her, and the silence makes you panic ... have you considered trying other types of therapy where you could still have multiple weekly sessions but in a way where you would have more contact with the therapist and the issues you mentioned would be minimised that way?

[Quito772]

Thanks for the replies.

I stopped the psychodynamic therapy as it was state funded (national health service here), and was only ever going to be one year long. Now I'm in private therapy. I started psychoanalysis as a psychiatrist I saw who I respect a lot recommended it to me (though as a psychoanalyst himself it is probably not surprising he recommended it), and in some ways I do think it's good, I find going multiple times a week much better than once only, and my analyst is very perceptive and clever. But I read here about other people's Ts, who hug them and tell them they're good people and it just seems like they have a relationship with a person not a sounding board who never answers any questions which drives me crazy.

Not being able to see my T is weird; I thought originally it would be a good thing for me as I was forever telling my previous T to stop looking at me as I found it very difficult and I very rarely give eye contact when I speak, but it's like I find it hard to think of her as a person without being able to see her. Sometimes I turn my head right around just to get a glimpse of her legs out of the corner of my eye, especially during our long silences. Plus I'm still not that used to lying down, it feels vulnerable.

I don't know how long to give it before saying it is not for me? I don't want to waste months/years (and a lot of money) for something that isn't going to help me, but I would be worried how I would go about finding somebody else. I'd also be terrified about telling my analyst I don't want to see her anymore, gosh I feel a bit sick even thinking about that. But I can't help feeling if I could just find a way to get past this, and be able to open up, then it could change my life (which I need desperately). I'm probably going to have to at least talk to her about it though aren't I?

[Favorite Jeans]

Have you talked to her about how those silences make you feel? Do you feel like in addition to being perceptive and clever, she is warm, gentle and empathic? Have you told her that you aren't sure whether this process is helpful at all?
It seems to me like there are a lot of choices between once weekly therapy and four times weekly psychoanalysis. If you're the one paying you are in a great position to find something that works better for you. Maybe a type of therapy that's more focused on helping you more proactively. Some change does come gently and slowly with gradual increased self-awareness but some change comes with focus and practicing how to handle certain issues and situations. I'm not sure you get enough of the latter kind with psychoanalysis.
I haven't been in psychoanalysis as such but did once have a vey psychoanalytic type therapist. I found it cold and unsatisfying. That T was also clever and perceptive but not very warm or affirming. I need to be able to see my T and know that she isn't horrified by things that feel shameful to me (and have her say that) or that she IS horrified by something horrible that happened and that basically she thinks I'm OK. I never got any of that from the psychonanlytic T. Insight by itself without love and warmth doesn't feel very healing to me.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Quito772

I don't know how long to give it before saying it is not for me?

You've been going since April, so that's about 4 months, for 4 sessions per week. That seems long enough to make a judgment on whether to continue. It sounds like it is time to bring this topic up with your analyst.

Going four times a week is helping me though; in my last therapy I found the week-long gap quite hard to handle.

I think there is a lot more to therapy than just the frequency. Is going 4 times a week enough reason to stay in this type of therapy?

Is it normal to find it so difficult? Will it get easier? How can I forge a relationship with someone who reflects so little? Or is that the point - it's a space purely for me to consider myself?

These are questions about the technique of psychoanalysis. Can your analyst answer these questions by explaining the technique to you? It seems that the A should explain how psychoanalysis works?

I started psychoanalysis as a psychiatrist I saw who I respect a lot recommended it to me

Do you know what made him/her think psychoanalysis would be a good fit for you?

Good luck.

[Lamplighter]

Have to echo what other posters have said, it's a good idea to bring this up with your therapist before making any decisions. Having said that, sounds like she's a true blue blank slate type and you're unlikely to get any useful feedback from her (but who knows, occasionally psychoTs have been known to explain the process.) It also sounds highly unlikely that you'll get open sympathy or support or anything remotely resembling comfort from her, at least not in the way you're describing other people's Ts offer it, so maybe you want to think about what it is about therapy that would best help you - do you want a therapy where you develop more or less a real relationship with the T, do you want a therapy where the T tells you what you need to be doing and is pretty much directional, or is having a silent witness and the space and safety to express whatever comes to you in session potentially positive?

I can see how the latter can be really helpful and healing - but I think you need to be pretty strong emotionally in the first place to keep at it.

In principle, with a psychoT, you ought to be able to go in there and express exactly how you feel about everything, including her and how she doesn't seem to give you what you know you need. I learned a lesson from psychoanalysis - that it was ok, in fact important, to bring ALL feelings about EVERYTHING into session, especially about the T him/herself (they work with the transference, in principle anyway). Lots of things fell into place for me when I realized that I could go into session and criticize the hell out of the T and tell him all the ways in which he was letting me down and not giving me what I needed, and he wouldn't retaliate. That was so important.

So I'm sort of saying, maybe you could try going in and just blurting out how you feel about her, and the therapy, and the sorts of things you're wanting and needing - you won't GET them, but you'll get the space in which to articulate these things, and be heard. In theory anyway.

I hope you do speak to her at least a bit about what's going on for you, you may find after all that this modality of therapy is not for you, but it would be a shame to quit without first talking it over.

[tinyrabbit]

What if you tried seeing another type of T just for a session or two, to see how you liked it?

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

do you want a therapy where you develop more or less a real relationship with the T, do you want a therapy where the T tells you what you need to be doing and is pretty much directional, or is having a silent witness and the space and safety to express whatever comes to you in session

This is an excellent way of summing it up! Personally I needed the relationship and I do believe that, as Yalom says, it's the relationship that heals. But that's just me...

[wotchermuggle]

There are different and more modern types of psychoanalysis that don't included the blank-screen therapist you've described. My T is a relational psychoanalysis and it's like psychodynamic therapy, but we look at things deeper. There is a genuine relationship there and my T answers questions and is not a complete mystery. I do know some things about him personally. The therapy schedule doesn't have to be 4x a week to be productive. I go once and sometimes two times a week if I can afford it.

As someone else mentioned, it's been shown that it's the RELATIONSHIP that heals, not the approach. But if you really like the approach, maybe you should try a different version of it that allows for a relationship vs. a blank screen.

[ECHOES]

I would love to do psychoanalysis! My T is a trained psychoanalyst, but does psychodynamic therapy with an analytic focus.

I hope psychoanalysis is helpful to you. If you end up preferring psychodynamic psychotherapy, can you also go private to have that?

[Quito772]

Thanks, I do definitely think I need to talk it out with my T. I think this

So I'm sort of saying, maybe you could try going in and just blurting out how you feel about her, and the therapy, and the sorts of things you're wanting and needing - you won't GET them, but you'll get the space in which to articulate these things, and be heard. In theory anyway.

is probably about right, I think I would feel like a bit of a failure if I quit without even trying to talk it out because I do like the idea of psychoanalysis and I want it to work. I could in theory find another T who works with a different modality and pay for that instead, if I find analysis is not for me.

It's interesting what you say about it being the relationship that heals, rather than the modality. In my life I've never really been able to form proper relationships and have always tended to figure things out on my own - in some ways psychoanalysis fits quite well with that - allowing me to come up with the answers rather than relying on someone else. But I guess it's not teaching me much about relationships, at least not yet, anyways. Hmm, stuff to think about.

[precious things]

Since you are asking for personal experiences, I'll tell you that I had similar concerns that in my gut, I wish I had paid more attention to early on. I spent 7 months on the couch 4x a week and in the end, I was rapidly deteriorating (I have an eating disorder) and felt I couldn't continue with analysis because it wasn't addressing the disorder fast enough. I think if someone is severely depressed or has very pressing issues related to why they are seeking treatment, it would be extremely hard for me to see how it can contain those things quick enough. I would tell the analyst that I was desperate to stop purging and the only comment he ever made was, " does it help?"- you know, as someone with and eating disordered twisted brain I would say, "yes" and that would be the end of that- (how anyone could recover from an ED with this type of treatment is beyond me, but I digress...)

I hated how it was completely self-directed because I need a little gentle conversation or prodding to figure out where in my head I want to go in a session...my current T would never let me get away with talking about this,that, and the other for 45 min without specifically addressing key concerns in my life and checking to see that I can come away with something from each meeting. BUT, I had a weird attachment thing going on and giving up was hard- I was eager to succeed in there and not have a another misguided attempt. And at 4x a week, I was very financially and emotionally invested. And it is nice to be listened to a know you can have a space like that so frequently, but for my issues I didn't have the luxury of spending all the years it probably would have took to sort myself out. Once I did quit, I took a long break before selecting my current T and the contrast couldn't be more stark. I am so introverted and a living-in my head type person that I didn't realize how crucial the therapeutic (the interactive , talking about our relationship when necessary) relationship is to my recovery. Sometimes, you do need someone to call you on your BS and I felt like the analyst rarely challenged my way of thinking, rather left me to spin myself to my own conclusions. I hope this helps, obviously this was just my take on it.

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by precious things

I am so introverted and a living-in my head type person that I didn't realize how crucial the therapeutic (the interactive , talking about our relationship when necessary) relationship is to my recovery. Sometimes, you do need someone to call you on your BS

This, totally! Especially as, for me, calling me on my BS includes challenging my beliefs that I am a fundamentally loathsome person, I shouldn't bother people with my feelings, and I have no right to complain or get upset. My T challenges my faulty thinking. Sometimes by what he says. But also just by being there, not agreeing with it.

I also find it helpful when my T self-discloses. He only ever tells me things he thinks will help me, either because he's making a point about something I'm saying, or just trying to model disclosure.