[rainbow8]

I don't have energy to figure out how to make a poll. I'm wondering if anyone thinks it's NOT so terrible a thing to do. Is it always crossing boundaries? Is it bad just because T says it's a boundary crossing? What if it were all right with her, like googling? Would it still be unacceptable?

I couldn't sleep last night thinking about the whole mess, and how there's not enough sessions left to work through this, and how crummy I feel.

It's hard to distract with real life, even today. Especially today.

[Hope-Full]

I do think it's a big boundary crossing. It's kind of scary, having someone (even if you know them to be safe) driving by your house. Imagine if it were in the reverse, and someone were driving by your house, even though they weren't "supposed" to know where you live? I'd be a little freaked out myself.

That said...... when I was younger, I frequently drove by my mentor's house when I needed to feel some connection. However, I had actually been invited to her house, had dinner with her and her family, etc. She never knew I drove by frequently after the fact, though. I chalk it up to being in my late teens/early 20s and having NO coping skills!

I understand why you did it Rainbow, I really do...... but yes, I do think it inappropriate. I'm glad, at least, you've talked with T about it. That makes it a learning and growing experience.

[trdleblue]

I would say it is bad for both of you. I had a friend who did the same thing with an ex of hers. Each time she did it she would get more bold and more aggressive / invasive. Even if your t was okay with it, my guess is at some point that would change. I also don't see how it could be good for you. Even if it satisfies some need at the moment, there is a lot of negative emotions that go with it.

[growlycat]

If I didn't know you from your posts, and know you enough to be a sweet person, and I just heard that a psychotherapy patient drove by their dr.'s house on purpose, I'd feel it was a stalker-ish thing to do.

But by beating up on yourself, you are only hurting yourself. Just keep asking yourself why you feel you need to do it and how can you stop?

Hugs!!

[archipelago]

I think it depends on motive and intent. And the way boundaries are established in the relationship. My shrink lives quite near to me. I didn't know that at first, but the street is a natural place for me to cross since it's near a store and bank stop that I frequent. When I knew his car (and it's a very unusual color so unmistakeable), I realized where he lived. I pass it all the time. I try not to look when I drive by but on occasion I have seen him working outside. But I really doubt that he would see this as a boundary issue. In fact, since he knows that I know where he lives, he has offered to leave things like med samples in his mailbox if I needed to pick it up and couldn't get to his office. That may sound strange, but it is because he trusts me and I trust him. We know we respect each other a great deal and would never do anything to damage the relationship. I think boundaries can be flexible. If my shrink's boundaries were more rigid, I would find that off putting.

[rainbow8]

I want to hear the truth so I can accept that it's something I do that's not acceptable and need help with. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's why I started this separate thread. Not to make myself feel worse, but to get at the reality of how it sounds to people.

[PeeJay]

I don't think it is the end of the world. And it is legal, as the street is public. Companies spy on their own employees (ever filed for workman's comp and taken time off? )

It becomes a problem if you can't control your own behavior, or if you suffer as a result. I think that if youhave to ask, it is a problem. Simply because your actions, feelings, and control are out of line.

[RTerroni]

I think it is totally unacceptable to drive by your Therapists's house, the next thing you know you will see her get into her car then follow her to where ever she is going then just happen to tell her that you happened to run into her at her destination.

[TheWell]

I think it's a boundary issue. I've googled my Ts but I think driving by their house is an invasion of privacy

[scorpiosis37]

If it is not intuitive to you that driving by your T's house is a boundary crossing, then I think that is an issue in itself. If, even after being told by T that driving by her house is a boundary crossing, you aren't sure and need people on PC to tell you, then that's an issue. I think, more than talking about your need to do it, you need to talk to your T about your lack of understanding of boundaries. If you really don't understand why this is a significant boundary crossing, then it may help to ask your T to teach you about boundaries. You only seem to see boundaries from your side, and you don't seem to understand boundaries from the other person's side. You don't seem to understand how crossing other peoples' boundaries affects them. We've already explained how driving by someone else's house makes them feel scared, unsafe, uncomfortable, unable to relax, and spied on. You do seem to show an emotional reaction to that information, but if you're posting this thread, then it hasn't sunken in. You seem to be looking for an excuse to "make it okay" when, in fact, it is not okay. Regardless of what anyone on PC says, your T has already told you, point blank, that it IS a boundary crossing and she is NOT okay with it. What more information do you need? If the person in question tells you that you are crossing their boundaries, that means that it is a big deal and you are invading their privacy and making them uncomfortable. You are making them feel the way you felt when your brother invaded your privacy. In your other post, you seemed surprised that your brother didn't understand why what he did was wrong. Do you see that is where you are at now? Like your brother, you've crossed someone's boundaries, and you don't seem to understand that it isn't okay. I fully agree with those who said that you should not be shamed; that isn't going to help. Feeling bad about it isn't going to help. What will help is learning to understand boundaries and why they are there to protect the other person. Since you know (from your brother) what it feels like when your boundaries are violated, I think you can understand that is how you make other people feel when you violate their boundaries. If you understand that, I don't think you will want to do it anymore. You're a kind person, and you don't want to make anyone feel scared, unsafe, or violated. You have a really generous T who has looser boundaries than most. Many Ts would have felt that their boundaries were violated much earlier. For your T, this is "the line." It's a pretty universal line. I don't think any T would feel "okay" with a client going out of their way to drive by T's house in order to spy on them. That's very different than "having" to drive by T's house on the way to their destination, which is unavoidable. Maybe what would help you learn to understand boundaries is learning more about empathy. It seems that you have a hard time understanding how others are affected by your actions. Maybe your T can help you learn how to put yourself in someone else's shoes, and understand things from another's perspective? That's a really valuable skill to have.

[vans1974]

I agree with everyone in that it's not a good idea...because it can become a negative obsession. Best of luck!!

[rainbow8]

scorpio, thank you. I WANT to hear that it's not okay, to reinforce that it's not. I thought I needed more proof, but you're right about everything you wrote. I'm going to comment more on what you posted in a while. One thing an old T told me is that I don't realize my actions affect others, like you said. I tend to feel I'm invisible, so it doesn't matter. No one cares, no one pays attention to what I do. But that's not true.

I also think I'm a good person, so it really, really bothers me to acknowledge that a part of me does this. I'm scared of myself!!!

[sweepy62]

My former substance abuse t lives close to me she told me because she had recently bought the house, she didnt give me exact address but enough where I can find it. I guess that took the whole curiosity out of it . So I never have the urge to drive by. As for my main t, im curious, but I have respect for her bounaries, and I think it would hinder the relationship even if she does not know, so the bottem line is it does cross your therapists boundaries. Hugs rainbow

[anilam]

As I've stated earlier not OK. Regardless what anyone here says your T was clear on that one- couldn't agree more with all Scorpiosis said. Personally I know some Ts who would terminate a client for doing this.

Just wondering- why do you think you have not enough sessions left to deal with this? You have your T till March. 4 months are surely enough...

[archipelago]

Perhaps it would help to switch the terms from boundaries to empathy, as scorpio suggested. Think about what a therapist does and what their life is like. They see many people. They have lots of personal information that they have to carry inside them all the time. They feel concern for many. They give all day and don't ask for anything in return.

So when they go home, they finally get to be who they are and relax and be with people who can give back to them. And they can temporarily let go of the burdens they've carried all day, every day of the week.

Going home is their sanctuary. To intrude into that space is not letting them have what they need. They are people too. They have needs like everyone else. And since they take on so much and give so much, the least we can do is honor that with respect.

[velcro003]

I agree with Scorpio, that the issue seems less about "is it bad to drive by T's house" than being about why you can't accept what T says she does'nt like. That you still need further proof to see if T is "right." We will always run across other people's boundaries that we don't understand or agree with. That is just how life is. Can you think of a privacy boundary you have and flip it around? What if somebody crossed it? And continued to question you about it? How would you feel?

[1776]

IMHO, such a thing is stalking and I vehemently discourage it.

[velcro003]

That being said, I have driven by my T's house a few times. I knew her street name because her kid came to a program at my work. I drove down the street as an alternative way to get home that is faster than the usual way I went. I never knew her actual house # even though I could look it up. I never told my T, and never actually wanted to see her, but just curious about the street she lived on. I have no idea how she would feel about that, i am assuming it wouldn't make her jump for joy. But I also don't have a tremendous amount of guilt associated with it, or the need to further question it. I did it a couple of times, and if i ever need to go down that way (because it is faster), I will.

[Littlemeinside]

I am sort of glad you posted, since given an honest feedback was considered
" shaming" in your other thread.

Since this topic has come up numerous of times over the years and since you have had the experience of telling another T about you spying on her, with the result of being told you need more therapy....is that really what it´s all about now? " Defending " the right to keep going to T, because the end is near? I wouldn´t have a clue based on 1000 of replies on PC ( also on this topic) and your experience with over 18 years of T experience, what would be the " right" way to answer these threads?

Do you know that yourself? I don´t mean to be harsh.I´m more
" facinated" by every attempt to not break a pattern, wich is obviously hurting both you and your surroundings.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by Littlemeinside

I am sort of glad you posted, since given an honest feedback was considered
" shaming" in your other thread.

Could you should me the "honest feedback" that wasn't "shaming" The two aren't mutually exclusive, depending on how you define "honest feedback."

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I don't have energy to figure out how to make a poll. I'm wondering if anyone thinks it's NOT so terrible a thing to do. Is it always crossing boundaries? Is it bad just because T says it's a boundary crossing? What if it were all right with her, like googling? Would it still be unacceptable?

I couldn't sleep last night thinking about the whole mess, and how there's not enough sessions left to work through this, and how crummy I feel.

It's hard to distract with real life, even today. Especially today.

whether it crosses boundaries or not depends upon you and your own treatment provider. some prefer their clients to keep out of their home life including driving by the treatment providers homes some do not.

my own therapist has a private practice, until she got her office space we met in her home. so obviously she did not consider going by her home as an invasion of her space. though I have had treatment providers that do not want their clients to be coming by their home all the time. they need their space in order to be the best treatment provider that they can be. if treatment providers have to bring work home with them or they are constantly reminded about work through their clients calling their homes and coming by their homes with out the treatment providers permission well they can get whats called burn out, where they cant do their job very well any more.

that said here in NY going by a treatment providers home uninvited legally is the same as if a stranger kept driving by my home....called stalking. and the person doing this can get arrested for stalking, trespassing and harassment.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I couldn't sleep last night thinking about the whole mess, and how there's not enough sessions left to work through this, and how crummy I feel.

It's hard to distract with real life, even today. Especially today.

Please try not to beat yourself up about it, seriously! I think this could be a real growing place for you, and it sounds like your T understands and was not frightened or threatened. In my mind it was a boundary crossing and always will be, but boundaries are crossed and tested all the time. You made a lot of progress being honest in therapy and trusting so now you have the opportunity to really try to heal if you can just be compassionate with yourself. Seriously you just need to stop beating yourself up about it, we all make mistakes life is messy.

I think it's normal to want to know about your therapist, given the trust needed to be placed in them to open up. To me Googeling is ok, but even Googeling can be a boundary crossing when taken too far, for example following the T's kids facebook account. It seems like it's just ridiculously common for boundaries to be tested in therapy, there's tons of stuff written on it. You're probably not the first person to drive by her house, nor the last, just don't do it again of course.

[unaluna]

It wasn't just your brother spying. It was your mother ignoring your broken finger. You're just lucky that nothing bad came of that. But that's a way you were invisible. No boundaries. My t tells me I was an extension of my mother. If you weren't seen as a separate person, it's difficult to see others as separate persons.

Like my t and his bacon. To me, bacon is a) something my mother eats b) totally unhealthful c) everything evil in the world. But t loves it. I know this sounds frivolous. But in order for me to even joke about bacon with my t - we all have our priorities - I had to do some changing. Ended up I bought him some ready to eat bacon (which he didnt know existed) at the hospital gift shop after I met with a nutritionist - doesn't get any funnier than that.

There was a lot of work between those 2 paragraphs though. I mean within the bacon thing, and also your voyage. But you're the one who said here - somewhere - that you felt invisible. I think that's a very good point. Why should it matter if you drive by? You don't matter. Why should it matter if you want your friend to tell you where she's going? It matters because it feels intrusive to her; because it feels controlling, like maybe you just want her to tell you but you don't really need to know? Like when my mother used to tell us to call her as soon as we got to the hotel. It meant, don't enjoy yourself, just think about me and feel guilty. Some activities you may be recreating from your past without knowing why - I totally believe that. Just plain old monkey see, monkey do. But if you examine it, it's because you have internalized the parental motivations.

[anilam]

Not to hijack but my mum tells me to call/text too and I've always decoded it like she really cares about me...

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by anilam

Not to hijack but my mum tells me to call/text too and I've always decoded it like she really cares about me...

Maybe it's the tone of voice? It's like do it or its the end of the world. And then she's not even around to take the call, she acts like you're bothering her if you find her. Mixed messages. She is pretty nuts. But it's nice to know there are normal relationships in the world, seriously!