[coltranefanatic]

Le sigh....just when I thought I was home safe.

I've been speaking to new therapists, one of whom I saw today, she seemed absolutely AWESOME. I really like her. She's super smart, and funny, and I felt much much much much more relaxed in her presence. I even cried instantly and felt okay in crying! It was such a huge relief!

Until......

She asked if I'd had a "closure/debriefing" session with my old T. I said no, and in fact, my termination with him...was quite...seismic, and the likes, and I just really want to move on. She said, "well I can't force you to do anything, but if I am to really treat you effectively, I would recommend you have a closure session with the old T, just, if only to look at each other and say goodbye, and get that closure.

To which I asked, why is that necessary? And she said, it's just much more helpful to make sure there is nothing lingering, nothing festering and that I'm really READY to move on.

Is this.....industry standard? Is this normal? I would have thought, I could just...move on?

I really like this new doctor, and I want her to treat me, so.....what should I do?

[Elektra_]

i agree with her... in fact whenever i had to quit i went there personally to do so. and she didnt say u HAD TO, she said i recommend. but in order u move on u always need a closure. tc

[owlpride]

Is this.....industry standard? Is this normal? I would have thought, I could just...move on?

It is industry standard to recommend a closing session. It is not industry standard for every client to have one.

It's up to you to decide if you want a closing session. Maybe you want to say goodbye if you got attached to your old T. Maybe you want to tell your old T that he has hurt you and that you are angry at him. Just so that you don't carry that resentment with you going forward. On the other hand, if you've only seen this T once or twice and decided after an intake that you don't like him and you don't have any strong feelins, it's fine to just terminate and move on.

[HazelGirl]

It sounds normal, but she didn't say you absolutely HAD to. It does make sense that she would want a closure session because you will be bringing the junk from that relationship into this one. And although that's okay if that's what you want to do, it can sometimes save a lot of work if you work it out with your old T. However, looking at your relationship with him, I don't think it's necessarily in your best interest to do so.

[coltranefanatic]

It's not only her that recommended this, it's also minimally three other therapists who mentioned this. I am aware that I don't HAVE to do anything, but I get the impression from those I speak with, that they'd prefer I do this.

[Elektra_]

what prevents u for doing it? it might actually be good for u to face a difficult/unpleasant situation..

[unaluna]

I think if you tell her what you told us and him - that you thought he was flirting with you, or that you were attracted to him, to such a degree that it was interfering in your therapy, because it echoed some of your issues - that should pretty much cover it. I have often discussed my feelings about my previous t - who STILL can make me melt and who i run into occasionally - with my current t. And when there was an erotic email snafu with my current t, i consulted with my previous t about it. So if there is anything good about your relationship with the male t, you may want to preserve it. Look at it as a future good business relationship rather than a past bad emotional relationship. It would be more healthy, more mature, less acty-outy. Just kinda thinking out loud here. I didnt really have this kind of calm behavior modeled for me by my mother, she was more shoot first, ask questions later. My blindly repeating that behavior has cost me. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.

[stopdog]

I have always thought this sort of thing was more for therapists than clients even though therapists won't admit it. I don't think it necessary at all.

[coltranefanatic]

Hankster

You know, I DID tell her, almost in the exact words you used (it was like you were in my head), and the other two therapists, verbatim. The whole shebang, T was flirty, I was already attracted, my head got messed up, I thought it was hurting therapeutic process.

They all said, "none the less, it is the duration of the time you spent with this T, that makes me recommend, you see him one more time, thank him, say goodbye and close the door."

Some won't even consider therapy with me, til I do this. It just struck me as awfully...weird.

Wow, you run into your former therapist? How? I have often wondered if this has happened to people that you bump into your T in the real world. I don't...think that's gonna happen with me and my T, unless I'm in the area of where his office is. He lives, nowhere near me. Unless my band plays a gig in Newburyport, MA, that's very unlikely, and unless it's warmer weather, I'm NEVER out there. I see my T in Cambridge, MA, as I live in Somerville. I think if I saw my T in real life, I'd ensure he not see me. That's gotta be so awkward huh?

Man, I really wish, I could view who is now my ex T, as you see yours. I can't really see him that way, as a positive business relationship.

[nicoleflynn]

I hate the word, "closure" there are some things you never get closure from. You need to do what is comfortable for you...no matter what anyone says.

[coltranefanatic]

Well...I think that's true, but in this case, I just don't want a situation in which a new therapist, I really like, won't see me, until I do this. I can't help thinking, even if I agreed to do it, if he'd see me at this point! LOL! I kinda put a nail through it, you know?

[Elektra_]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

I hate the word, "closure" there are some things you never get closure from. You need to do what is comfortable for you...no matter what anyone says.

well the point of therapy is starting to do things that are "uncomfortable" in order to push u through, otherwise no matter how many years u are there u wont change a thing!

[grimtopaz]

A couple of things to keep in mind. Therapists cannot force you to do anything you don't want. Period. If you do not wish to meet with your old T, you do not have to.

You said that some T's have refused to treat you because you haven't had a "debriefing" session with your previous T. T's can actually refuse to treat anyone for whatever reason (they are just not allowed to "abandon" a patient) as long as there are other T's you have access to.

It sounds like your new T is making a "strong recommendation", but she is not saying she will stop treating you if don't debrief with old T.

I think you could just say "I really thought about your recommendation. I also know myself well enough to know that meeting with my ex-T would not feel psychologically safe and would do more harm than good." A good T. would not keep asking you to do something you know would not be good for you.

Good luck!

[unaluna]

Its a wonder i dont see my ex-t more - his office is on the next floor in my apartment building! Which made it convenient when i was seeing him! I do see him more in the summertime. Its been a long journey, feelings-wise. It's like hes a different person, but its that im seeing him more realistically, less as a fantasy fulfillment of my needs.

Maybe the new ts just dont want the crisis point you reached with old t to go underground? Maybe it gets better defended each time. Like a med may not be as effective if you stop it before all the cooties are killed, then the disease comes back and you need a stronger dose or longer course.

[coltranefanatic]

Hahah! T Cooties!!! Thats funny!!! Thanks Hankster, seriously I have not laughed in days.

Grimtopaz- to be clear. I've only met with one new therapist, I wouldn't call myself a client/patient just yet, but two therapists and the one I met today, who I am hoping will become my new doc, are saying that I should do this, and two of them said, "I would have some reservations if you didn't do this."

[TheShins]

I've been following your thread and the whole situation w your former T sounds incredibly agonizing. I admire your strength in doing what's best for you, despite how difficult it is to leave a relationship w that kind of intensity and connection.

I do think it is very much standard practice to encourage a final session. Of course, therapists in my experience seem to believe there is no relationship issue that can't be made better by more talking, something I don't necessarily agree with.

But what about meeting with this woman a few more times and using her to really weigh whether or not meeting ex T would really be in your best interests? Could she be objective enough (I mean open to the possibility that meeting again may actually not be in your best interests)? It's sounds like you connected w her and I think if it were me, I'd want to hear in much more detail the potential upside of exposing myself to that kind of psychic pain before I did it. A generic "it's necessary for closure" wouldn't be worth it for me. Also, if you did decide to see him again, maybe she could help you plan ahead of time how to direct a closure session in a way that would achieve what would be helpful to you and not get derailed by emotion. By your writing, you're clearly very smart but powerful emotions have a way of throwing all of us off in the moment.

Best of luck to you!

[SoupDragon]

If we could always do the appropriate, right, rational thing, would we need therapy?

[someone321]

I am very happy that your first session with new T went so good! it looks like we both after "wrong" male T, got great female T

I think that my current T really isn't the biggest fan
of my previous T (e.g. Today she said that one thing she is sure about: that our relationship will never be anyhow similar to my relationship with the previous T and that she'll never argue with me and that if I see that she does something which bothers me I should immediately bring it up - sorry they were 3 things not 1). However, even as she doesn't "like" my previous T, when I told her that I think I should tell him about the termination face to face - she immediately agreed. I think one thing is to be fair to him but another is that it might be easier to us, clients, to move on after a proper termination... My T has offered to help me to prepare myself for the closure session, maybe your new T could do the same?

[SeekerOfLife]

With my previous therapist, there was no real closure. I went in for a routine appointment, and she told me it was to be our last appointment. It still pains me. I had become very fond of her, and was feeling trust. Then, pow, she was gone. (To take a job in another city). It still pains me. I still miss her. It feels like unfinished business.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by seekersinking

With my previous therapist, there was no real closure. I went in for a routine appointment, and she told me it was to be our last appointment. It still pains me. I had become very fond of her, and was feeling trust. Then, pow, she was gone. (To take a job in another city). It still pains me. I still miss her. It feels like unfinished business.

That's therapist abandonment! And that's so terrible and unethical!

[Freewilled]

It has taken me a year of therapy to get to a point where I could face how devastating my experience with my last T was and how much it impacted me. I told myself it was pretty much/mostly, if not ALL my fault he terminated. It has severely impacted my ability to trust my current T. I cannot believe how much! I'm still not through processing it either /:

Although my situation is entirely different than yours, Coltrane, I can see why a new T might think it important for you to meet with him one more time. So you get out whatever you'd like to say. I'd love to let my ex-T have it. To tell him how much I foolishly let him impact my life, my decisions, what I thought of myself, how it affected my relationship with God, how isolated I became, etc. No -not all his fault as I had issues before going to him, but man, I can't believe how much he hurt me. I was entirely abandoned at my lowest point. I took away from the experience that my concerns (I was in a real crisis when he terminated with no referral/resources - nothing) were not a big deal, they were unimportant, and if they did matter - nobody could help me anyway. I cannot fathom how a T could do such a thing. I'm getting in touch with my anger and it's not pretty. It took me 10 years between that experience and now to start to see this for what it might have been (not fully sure but...) unethical

If you did go back one more time, is there anything you think you might want to say?

[coltranefanatic]

Sigh.....

What would I say? Well....I suppose the first thing I'd say, and maybe even the only thing I'd say, is I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I wasted so much of our time. I'm sorry I was surface level with you. I'm sorry I couldn't go deeper. I'm sorry that I showed up high as a kite a lot of the time because I just...hurt so ****ing badly, it's the kind of aching self torturous hurt, that you do anything to keep inside of you because you're afraid it would hurt everyone around you as well. I'm sorry that ultimately our journey together has to end. I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable. I'm sorry I couldn't hang.

[sunrise]

Coltranefanatic, I think it is up to you whether you want to have another session with your former T. If you feel you have already moved on, then maybe there is no need. You have got your closure without an official "closure session." Also, if you do go ahead and have another session with your former T, there is no guarantee you will get closure from it. It might be "opening a can of worms" and bringing you further from closure rather than closer. On the other hand, a last session could be good if you left on bad terms and want to change that. It really depends on your situation, what you want, and what would help you.

Originally Posted by coltranefanatic

"none the less, it is the duration of the time you spent with this T, that makes me recommend, you see him one more time, thank him, say goodbye and close the door."

Do you feel the need to say good-bye and thank him? If so, you could always send him a note in the mail if you don't want to see him.

FWIW, when I started with my current therapist, he never asked if I had a closure session with my previous therapist (which I did not). He was concerned with helping me NOW, not about past therapy. I just kind of stopped going to see my previous therapist, then had no therapy for a while. No closure was needed. Your situation is likely different--do you think you need further closure?

[coltranefanatic]

I feel bad about how I did things, but no. I feel going and seeing him one more time will only make things worse ultimately. I made my bed, no matter how lopsidedly and I have to lay in it.

[Petra5ed]

I'd personally want a closure session so I'm probably a bit biased about it. It seems like industry standard to say it's the suggested way to go, however I remember reading somewhere that only 1 in 3 clients actually do one, so you can obviously survive without it. When I was in college one of my psych professors on the last day of class wanted everyone to go and shake hands with her say basically goodbye forever, to feel what that kind of closure was like, ha!

I think the closure session might help you in the long run because then it wouldn't feel like you were running. Maybe just surviving it you would see you're strong enough to say goodbye and do this face to face which would be even more empowering, but I've never done one so what do I know.