[growlithing]

I tell LCM that I love her because I do and I just like saying it for some reason even when I know she won't say it back or acknowledge it. I do love her. But a few months ago, she told me that I can't love her or anyone else because I don't love myself. I don't know about that. I don't understand why that is a precursor. Maybe in a romantic relationship you can't love your partner in a healthy without loving yourself first because you have to be able to not completely lose yourself in the relationship or just falling in love with the way they make you feel as opposed to the actual person. But in a relationship like the one LCM and I have, it's not that complicated. It might seem complicated from the outside because the boundaries are fluffy, but the way I feel about her is simple. I get upset when I think that when I tell her that I love her, she doesn't believe me.

What do you guys think of what she said? Do you agree with her or not?

[HazelGirl]

I think the key is "in a healthy way". You can't love someone else fully and healthily without loving yourself and being able to then give that same love to others.

[Luce]

I believe she is right. You don't love 'her' - you love your idea of her, your own internal construct of what you want her to be.

[feralkittymom]

I think what she's getting at is that when we haven't experienced love for ourselves, we are blocked from engaging that part of ourselves that we then want to offer to others.

Love isn't instinctual, it's learned behavior. As infants develop they take in the love shown from caretakers and use those experiences to form the cognitive and experiential basis of how they feel about themselves; then they project those feelings toward others. They develop the paradigm. Get love, internalize love, give love.

When we don't have the experiences we don't develop the paradigm. So now you have these stirrings, and you've framed them as love because cognitively, they seem to fit that definition. But I think she's saying these feelings are really projected need for love labelled as love.

But it's ok. It's like trying on a new behavior which is what children do. Think of "puppy love." Adults know it isn't reflective of the full gamut of adult feelings, but it does express the growing paradigm of love as the child experiences it. It's not false, but it's not fully developed. It feels very real and full to the child, and it's an important and necessary step in development (and so damaging when belittled by adults.) But it's still developing and reflects part need, part projection, part recognition of the other.

The important thing is to bond which allows you to be open to the developmental experiences out of which will grow the ability to feel self-love.

[Petra5ed]

There is something about hating yourself that makes one get really self-focused. And, when things are going bad, and you're really hating yourself, and dwelling on yourself, you're also not in a great position to really care about other people, it's more like you want to be rescued by other people. (And I don't mean you you, I mean hypothetically, or me even). It's not selfish in the sense of intentionally being greedy or anything, but it is still a selfishness. When you are really depressed you're not in a good place to show love also, you're not thinking about the other person and their needs, more like your miserable and depressed seeking relief.

[brillskep]

I think that's a pretty tough love type of answer from her.

It does make sense, if you think about it. In my opinion, it has to do with the fact that it's a different type of love (more like attachment) if you don't love yourself. I believe you can love someone else but your love will always have a part of needing to be taken care of that person in it, as long as you don't love yourself. It may not be obvious like in a child, of course, but you will expect things for what you feel (consciously or unconsciously) such as to give you more meaning or "complete you" (yes I don't believe that only romantic relationships can have that function) or you may want emotional support or whatever. If you do love yourself, you won't need that other person because you can fulfill your own needs, you have meaning even without loving that person, so you love that person because it adds something good to your life, not just to compensate for something you lack. I'm talking about need and lack in desperate terms, because on some level we all need something in any relationship.

I guess the way someone who loves themselves loves others is more peaceful and calm.

This isn't to make any suggestion or interpretation about your case in particular. don't know your situation. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter of loving others and yourself generally.

[RTerroni]

I agree 100%

[Cherubbs]

Disagree - I love a lot of people but I don't love myself and my love is good love.

No, it isn't true at all. I don't love myself, but I KNOW I love my children very, very much. I do know how to love others. It's a stupid, idiotic saying that I have heard a lot, but I think it's kind of manipulative and, well, just wrong.

It is provably incorrect, since there are people who love others while not loving themselves. What your LCM said is one of those glib sayings that may sound sensible and comforting, but which actually mean nothing, since they are patently not true.

And "love" is a really nebulous concept. The term means different things for different people. In addition, there is loving feelings and loving behaviour, and those do not have to be connected at all - you can have either one of the two without the other. So no, I disagree with her in several different ways, and I think that she really needs to think about what she wants to say, instead of just resorting to trite sayings that are basically empty of real meaning.

[elliemay]

It's an interesting perspective on love. One I agree with actually. The key is a healthy love.

being in a relationship with someone is actually quite hard. You have to absorb the inevitable hurts that occur because there is another person, flawed and carrying their own stuff, in the mix.

You gotta somehow know that if the relationship ended that you would be okay, it might suck for awhile, but okay. This makes love a choice and not based on emotional imperative to have that person around.

When something is based on your own choice, then you've got the freedom to love fully and, to me, that's real love.

So yeah, I would say you've got to love yourself enough to handle it, enter freely into it, and just as freely exit it if you had to.

I'm sorry, but this comment just infuriates me. It's judgmental. I cannot even ever imagine saying this to someone. Ever.

I think it's a comment that has the potential to make people feel even worse about being depressed and hating themselves. It's a damaging thing to say to someone who is suffering.

This blog post explains how I feel about it:

Can you love others if you can?t love yourself?

Really good blog post, puzzle_bug. Thank you.

[AmysJourney]

I learned to love by being loved first.
My little baby sister loved me when nobody else did and I learned how to care for her, about her and how to love her. I also had this lady who would sometimes feed me when my parents didn't and she told me she loved me. And after I while, I loved her back.
I think it is possible to love someone else even if you don't completely love yourself.

But I also believe that there is a kind of distorted love - that is a bit like obsession for a person that we want in our lives, that we think we can't live without, who gives us what we need and don't have etc. This love is usually very one sided and not satisfying after a while BECAUSE - and here is the complicated thing - the problem with loving someone but not loving ourselves is that while we want that person to love us back so very badly, we don't think we deserve it, we think we are not good enough, not worthy enough etc. It is hard to accept the love for what it is. So the result can be to stay clingy, desperate for someone to love us and every little criticism or drawback makes us vulnerable and afraid of losing that love.
So loving ourselves is important for healing and freedom, I strongly believe that.

[sweepy62]

I dont believe that you cant love others without loving yourself first. First of all , there are different kinds of love, love is something we feel, the love of a sibling , love of a mother ect.... these are people we grew up with, lets say they were healthy relationships, then you have love for a spouse, love for a friend, love for a pet, assuming they are all healthy.

You can love, these people, and still not love yourself, to the extent you love these people I have mentioned above, because thats the way I feel, I would be one to give my life for my brother, which I love with all my being.

Then theres love for friends, therapists, counselors, ect... which is all different category, in my oppinion, these are people you develop feelings for, assuming again its healthy.

A love for a therapist, is more of a healthy attachment in process, just a feeling, an appreciation sort of speak.
If you grew up in an unhealthy childhood, these feelings are blurred, you develop an attachment and develop feelings with your t or whatever counselor lc ect... or infatuation, which are blurred and can be confused with love, because, you never knew what love meant to begin with, so its more of a need to attach, a need that was never met a want a desire, in my oppinion, thats why it has to be worked out in therapy.

Thats why the lc probably said that, but it was not the greatest choice of words, of course.

[elliemay]

I don't see it as judgemental, but rather worth considered, deliberate reflection. It's a trite saying, but even so I think there is truth in it - especially in what we consider to be love.

A house likely shouldn't entertain company if it's not structurally sound, likewise a heart is best kept close while it mends. It's not shaming, it's just smart I think.

And it seems reasonable to realize that, as someone earlier said, love is an emotion that we may feel all of the time for someone; however, love is also about actions, outwardly and inwardly, that we may not be following through with consistently or in a healthy way when we are dragging ourselves down.

I always love my children and my husband; however, if I become down on myself and my life, my ability to be completely in that love and devoted wholeheartedly without isolating or being more than the usual impatient or perhaps expecting more from them than I give to them at that point can kick in. It isn't a huge sin or error. It is just what it is. I have to remember than I can't build those relationships up and keep them healthy and keep them consistent if I can't build myself up and keep myself healthy. Not fun to look at that, but it is the reality. Fortunately it is fixable and non-fatal.

[SeekerOfLife]

I believe that a person cannot love themselves until someone else shows them what love looks like.

[MoxieDoxie]

Can someone explain what loving yourself feels like?! How do you know you do not love yourself?

[sweepy62]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

Can someone explain what loving yourself feels like?! How do you know you do not love yourself?

Thats a damn good question, and I dont know.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

Can someone explain what loving yourself feels like?! How do you know you do not love yourself?

I think it's self-confidence and acceptance of who you are.

For me, loving myself is having the self-respect to take care of myself physically, mentally, and emotionally. When I let any of that go, my love for myself diminishes.

Am I taking my meds like I know I need to? Am I actively working to regulate my eating and sleeping? Am I participating in activities that feed my soul such as church and chorus? Am I actively using the skills I know to deal with crises as they occur?

It is not just sitting back and letting life happening to me; it is actively working to make my life happen in a nourishing and healthy way. If I do any less, I am not showing due respect/love for myself and my mood, health, and stability suffers.

That's my definition. I'm guessing it is different of each individual.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

Can someone explain what loving yourself feels like?! How do you know you do not love yourself?

It is a good question. I think sometimes feelings of self hate or loathing are so strong that it's clear. Sometimes patterns of behavior that are persistently self-defeating, or subject one to disrespect might indicate lack of self love. A persistent inability to trust others goodwill, or a persistent lack of self-esteem could indicate not having a healthy self-love. Lots of ways.

Subjectively, I suppose the feeling of self love might be a calmness, content confidence, a belief in being worthy of love, a sense of interdependence rather than dependence in relationships, self-respect, self-liking.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I actually talked to my T about this phrase 2 weeks ago...

She gave me "Wisdom from the Road Less Travel" by M. Scott Peck to read. In it, it said: "Can't love anyone unless you love yourself". That really upset me.

I told my T, I disagreed. I told her the people I love, I truly do love. She said she believes me. BUT, she also said I do love myself... That was confusing...

She explained that I often do things that shows that I love myself: hygiene, eating well, exercising, comforting myself when I'm upset, reaching out for help when I need it, taking my medication, fighting for things I want, playing with my dogs, even tattooing the place I SI'ed. She's right In that regard, I do love myself. So I do have the ability to love others.

And two other quotes from the book that actual support my belief that I do truly love:

“Love is not simply giving; it is judicious giving and judicious withholding as well. It is judicious praising and judicious criticizing. It is judicious arguing, struggling, confronting, urging, pushing, and pulling, in addition to comforting”

“Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn’t, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised”

[growlithing]

I really don't understand what loving yourself means. It is a very confusing phrase to me because you can't love yourself the way you love someone else...? And I feel arrogant whenever I don't hate myself. I don't really know how to love myself without sexualizing it to be honest.