So how do 'you' find yourself avoiding feeling shame, if you are aware of it.

Do you think you use defense mechanisms, even though the shame maybe unconscious?

[Wysteria]

duplicated...sorry
-WB

[Wysteria]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

So how do 'you' find yourself avoiding feeling shame, if you are aware of it.

Do you think you use defense mechanisms, even though the shame maybe unconscious?

There are many techniques that I use to deal with shame....because I feel it almost ALL the time. I turn almost everything inside. I call them shame spirals because it always seems to just get worse and feed off each other. I hope you've read some of Brene Brown's stuff or try at least to watch a few of her videos or Ted talks. She is awesome and a researcher of shame....
Shame to me is my biggest flaw and the distinct desire not to hurt others or blame others always leads to shame. Keeps me at home much to much.
I can't discuss all the ways I use to disseminate some of the shame I feel here...but it is such a difficult emotion to deal with and it's twin sister Guilt is also horrid...basis for secondary emotion anger in my case...
I have an incredible T who is SO NON-shaming and tries really hard to help me with it. Having a caring and sensitive therapist to help you through is really helpful.
Also, creative and non-harmful ways to release pent up shame are also helpful...for some people the "look" at self-talk is really important as well. I truly am glad I'm not my best friend the way I talk to myself...ughh!!!
Good luck!!
Gentle hugs,
-WB

[OneWorld]

I feel it deeply and I deal with it by not dealing with it. I work too much, I try to make everyone happy and I have some other go-to avoidance strategies.

I absolutely think they can be subconscious. I was doing them all along but didn't know I was running so hard from shame until recently.

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That's interesting, one world. I only yesterday noticed I try to keep people happy as a way to avoid shame.

Wysteria, I'm not into "gurus" I prefer asking "you", regular folk. Keep it real.

[Wysteria]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Wysteria, I'm not into "gurus" I prefer asking "you", regular folk. Keep it real.

I was real and answered you....I struggle deeply with shame as I discussed and guilt....
I'm sorry you were not able to see my answers as being quite real.
Good luck on your journey.

Wysteria, No, I know you're real. I appriciate your reply.
I was referring to your Brene Brown suggestion. Your reply was real.

[HazelGirl]

Hmm...I do feel quite a bit of shame. Often, it manifests in me just wanting to distance myself physically and emotionally from all people. If it gets really bad, I end up misinterpreting everything that people have said and done to make sound in my head like they hate me, think I'm stupid or annoying, and would rather get rid of me.

I think perhaps that is happening in this thread. Interesting

[sweepy62]

I hold alot of shame which my t and I are working on , buts its hard because I don't know how to let go of it. She says it's like I'm in a forever in jail and I'm not even giving myself a chance at parole.

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[IndestructibleGirl]

I love Brene Brown. Definitely recommend her, she's worth a watch on TED talks - very accessible and very real.

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

I love Brene Brown. Definitely recommend her, she's worth a watch on TED talks - very accessible and very real.

Yes, it's all very safe idolising a guru. I find them rather narsisstic, that's not what I'm looking for. Im looking fir people who are vunrable, imperfect, real.

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Yes, it's all very safe idolising a guru. I find them rather narsisstic, that's not what I'm looking for. Im looking fir people who are vunrable, imperfect, real.

Then you'll like Brene Brown. Vulnerable, imperfect and real is what she's all about. Her stuff is very uplifting in a no-nonsense kind of way. Trust me, I'm not into 'woo' at all. Gurus are not my thing either.


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[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Yes, it's all very safe idolising a guru. I find them rather narsisstic, that's not what I'm looking for. Im looking fir people who are vunrable, imperfect, real.

Breńe isn't a guru, lol. She is so far from that. Just give her a chance. If it's a waste of 10 minutes, then it's a waste. You won't die if you waste 10 minutes. But go find her TED talk and check it out.

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Breńe isn't a guru, lol. She is so far from that. Just give her a chance. If it's a waste of 10 minutes, then it's a waste. You won't die if you waste 10 minutes. But go find her TED talk and check it out.

I agree - it's worth giving her a chance, if only because so many people talk about her. I don't like her talks at all, though. The content of her presentations is maybe interesting, but her style just grates on me and makes me angry and offended, and so I avoid her. But for me personally it is important to create my own impression of people who are quoted as gurus (which BB often is, whether she wants to or not).

To answer the original question, shame is one of the main things I struggle with. It is my fall-back emotion. After a couple of years in therapy I am starting to understand why, but not yet how to deal with it.

[Wysteria]

Here's the link for anyone interested in hearing her thoughts and observations on shame...

Brené Brown: Listening to shame | Talk Video | TED.com

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

So how do 'you' find yourself avoiding feeling shame, if you are aware of it.

Do you think you use defense mechanisms, even though the shame maybe unconscious?

I can't. It happens. I've only recently been able to identify it when it's happening because there is so much judging going on, by me. When I do that, judge, then shame becomes what I 'am' versus what I'm feeling. When that happens, I miss the opportunity to be aware of the feeling of shame. I think that's a protective chain of thoughts that is learned and serves the purpose of keeping me in the dark and safe, numb, from feeling.

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I agree - it's worth giving her a chance, if only because so many people talk about her. I don't like her talks at all, though. The content of her presentations is maybe interesting, but her style just grates on me and makes me angry and offended, and so I avoid her. But for me personally it is important to create my own impression of people who are quoted as gurus (which BB often is, whether she wants to or not).

To answer the original question, shame is one of the main things I struggle with. It is my fall-back emotion. After a couple of years in therapy I am starting to understand why, but not yet how to deal with it.

So many people talk about her? LoL.
There's none as blind as those who refuse to see

[kororain]

I'm not sure what you mean, Mouse. About the blind?

I have personally found Brene Brown to be useful in my own life though. I don't do a lot of that hippy/touchy-feely junk, and Brene seems very down to earth and relatable (to me). So maybe she'd give you insights or maybe she wouldn't, but I'm not sure why you would close the door without checking her out.

She doesn't think of herself as any kind guru. She's a shame researcher. So check her out. Or don't. It's all up to you.

I refused to look into her because I thought the same things you do, but then I literally had people in 4 different areas of my life suggest her so I thought, well ok fine. Then it turned out she thinks a lot like me. How 'bout that.

[Favorite Jeans]

I keep meaning to check out Brene Brown and then when I have minute I forget her name.

I try to be aware of my impulse to feel shamed and catch myself in the act. It's easiest to do with things that don't cut that deep. For example the other day I went to take my car to get the oil changed. I'd waited longer than I was supposed to between oil changes. The guy at the garage took out the air filter and showed me how filthy it was compared to a new one. He acted all concerned/appalled that I was breathing air filtered by that thing and launched into this condescending diatribe about how it negatively impacts my gas mileage etc.

Normally that kind of thing makes me feel small and incompetent and scatterbrained and disorganized and I experience it as proof of how much I don't have it together. The condescending tone always succeeds in making me feel inferior. Obviously in one feel swoop I've been shown to be single-handedly responsible for climate change, not to mention a big disorganized slob.

But this time I was all like "huh, really? I can hardly see the difference!" And he and I both laughed and I said sure, go ahead, change it. And I didn't feel like it was evidence of my suckiness nor did I start to justify to a complete stranger why my life is so overwhelming that I've neglected my air filter--which is exactly the kind of thing I'd have done in the past.

In some small way I feel like I gave myself permission not to have it together and let myself see the stupid filter for the small potatoes that it is. It was like this epiphany that I am not myself, a dirty filter, I just had one in my car's engine.

[kororain]

Speaking of the Oil Change guys... I have a cabin air filter too. One time mice had gotten in and chewed it up and the Oil Change guys wanted to swap it out. I'm like, "Fine. Do it."

And the guy was like, "Good cuz if not, I was going to tell you to have fun with the hanta virus!" LOL! Those guys take air filters seriously!