[granite1]

often my T tells me that the mother was horrible ,even evil, last session we were talking about my farther . and basically she said that he needs to be on my list of horrible people . I don't have him on that list and I asked her why she thought this. she said that he knew what was going on and did nothing to help you . fathers don't do this . it made me feel horrible to hear her say this. I know that it makes sense and all but it still threw me . if I use her theory about bad people in my life then no one is good. and neither was my stepfather. I loved my stepfather he was not bad .everything good in me is him. but he couldn't do anything either and he was closer to me then my father was . he knew more .I refuse to believe the only man how made me feel completely safe in a horrific world was a bad person in my life.

[NowhereUSA]

hmm.

i don't think she should be making that kind of judgment.

maybe that's just me, but it seems like she should be focused on helping you build healthy relationships and discuss relationships in terms of harmful and helpful. rather than calling your mother 'evil' maybe explore the ways that relationship is unhealthy and harmful towards you and help you figure out the most effective way to deal with it.

idk. i don't keep a list of horrible people. i have people i consider unhealthy and either avoid them or limit my contact with them, but that's about it.

[Leah123]

I wonder if she realizes that by using such harsh language she might be getting the opposite of the reaction she'd hoped for. I suppose she wants you to feel a sense of self-worth that would lead you to be upset by your parents' actions, and that makes sense, but to the extent we all grow up identifying with our parents and feeling protective of them because they are often all we have... I would probably just feel defensive and upset like you do if my therapist was too blunt early on. Even today, while my mother is on my list of unhealthy people, I occasionally have impulses to defend her.

I want to say that if your stepfather epitomizes everything good to you: don't let go of that.

My parents abused me, but my life was never 100% abuse. There was abuse, and there was Disneyland. There was abuse and there was being sent to expensive Catholic school because they thought it was best, an admirable sentiment.

I have found therapy, this go around, to be more about ambiguity than black and white thinking like good and evil. Sometimes it helps me to just say my mom was an evil witch, but what I've really been doing, on the whole, is accepting that my parents were nothing so black and white as good or evil. They were complex, broken, irresponsible. I'm better off without them, but that doesn't mean it's not sad or I'm never conflicted.

I hope you will continue to value those things you gained from your stepfather, even as you go through this hard process of reevaluating all these adults' roles in your life as a child.

I agree with Nowhere that the goal isn't just to bash them, but to identify things you might feel are normal that are hurtful to you in relationships or in the way you treat yourself, so that you can be happy and healthy. That's all.

[HazelGirl]

I don't think that's the right way to look at things. Labeling someone as "all good" or "all bad" isn't accurate. Your father had some bad aspects to him (he didn't protect you, for example), but he also had some good. The same goes for your step father.

[feralkittymom]

I can see where there may be a context for her to say it. But it also makes me uncomfortable. Firstly because whether he objectively was or wasn't horrible, if you don't see him that way, then that may be a reality for you for good reasons. I would prefer to be allowed to reach conclusions about people on my own timetable.

Plus there's the issue of being our parents' child. We internalize our parents, at least our biological parents: they literally are a part of us. So when a parent is abusive, we have a challenge of how to not internalize the abusive trait. It can be a struggle to not feel like bad traits are also in us. When a T uses a word like "evil" as a description of character, I think it makes that struggle more difficult.

I know I struggled with this idea because I look like my father. For a while, looking in the mirror was a constant reminder. I could only see him. It was difficult to not feel self-disgust at those times.

Also, our Ts often only see the painful moments. Rarely the good moments. So such a judgment seems unbalanced to me. Yet healing can be found through the good moments, so I think it's important to acknowledge them, even if they were tiny, few, and far between.

No, T hasn't made such b/w judgement.

[Parley]

I was trying to figure out how to talk about this in the thread "what do you want in a therapist." I don't want my therapist judging my enemy or anyone else that comes in the room: Good or Bad.

I believe it's a fine line they have to walk but I walking my own tight rope at the moment so I'd prefer not to be pushed.

[granite1]

omg I am so sorry I said the wrong thing .yes my T did say that my farther should be on the bad or horrible list but she did not call the mother evil I think that is my words. she called her sadistic.as in the behaviors she was exhibiting were sadistic . there is a small difference there .but I still think her theory is a bit flawed as far as my farther goes .he never did anything to help me and yes he would bring me back to the mother knowing she was beating me but what could he do . he told me he didn't want her to go to jail

[Favorite Jeans]

I agree that it isn't very helpful to just have it decided for you that people in your life are simply evil. Sometimes parents who fail to protect children from abuse are being abused themselves. Sometimes the love they give you is somewhat protective even if they can't or won't shield or remove you from the abuse. This is not to excuse the person who is a bystander while a child is being abused but to just to say that it is unnecessary and inaccurate to dismiss them as a total write-off of a human being. Evil is a big word. People are complex and are not simply reducible to their worst actions.

As others have mentioned, I also think it is up to the client to draw these sorts of conclusions, not the therapist.

The Good/Bad List seems rather like black and white thinking..

Even when I think of my abuser...he wasn't all "bad" and that to me is one of the things that made my abuse situation so confusing in my head even now...

that being said from todays standards of mandatory reporting of child abuse, abusers as well as bystanders being charged with a crime, etc.. its easy to say that those people in your life would not be considered "safe" people...

but that does not mean that your step father didn't love you the best way he knew how...

(my T used similar statements to me because I was in denial about what was abusive and what wasn't and it was a way to get me to use an outsider perspective of thinking about it. I had to first think about it as if it was something happening in a 3rd person sort of way in order to acknowlege it as abuse to me)

[Ford Puma]

Well I be.... T's keep going on about not been judgmental then they turn around and....

[granite1]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

The Good/Bad List seems rather like black and white thinking..

Even when I think of my abuser...he wasn't all "bad" and that to me is one of the things that made my abuse situation so confusing in my head even now...

that being said from todays standards of mandatory reporting of child abuse, abusers as well as bystanders being charged with a crime, etc.. its easy to say that those people in your life would not be considered "safe" people...

but that does not mean that your step father didn't love you the best way he knew how...

(my T used similar statements to me because I was in denial about what was abusive and what wasn't and it was a way to get me to use an outsider perspective of thinking about it. I had to first think about it as if it was something happening in a 3rd person sort of way in order to acknowlege it as abuse to me)

the lists came from me writing a list of the people I had and have in my life that are good so she just said the bad list in reference to my farther not being on the good list. that don't I think he should be on the list of bad people . im quite sure she used these statements to help me see what was abusive but it didn't work this way at all .I didn't understand it and it seems with her theory that all the good people are bad also. IDK I don't think she meant it to be so judgmental but if she believes this I hoe she doesn't think this of my step dad

Granite... this seems like a subject that will take a couple of sessions to get your head around.... talk some.. process for a while..go back talk some more ...process for a while... go back and say ...this is how I see it...listen to Ts comments...

maybe T is trying to get the "ball rolling" for this type of conversation? and not for you to just accept what she is saying ?

you could talk to her about the feelings and thoughts that came up this week after last weeks session... I think she was anticipate that conversation.

[HazelGirl]

All people are both good and bad, even your step-father. It's not good to idealize or demonize anyone, because it hurts you when they step outside of those very narrow boundaries.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by granite1

she said that he knew what was going on and did nothing to help you

You get to decide who is on your list, your T was giving you her opinion of who she feels should be on your list. I think your stepfather did help you become you, did feel good/safe to you, etc.? If your father was just "there" that is not enough for a father to be, in my opinion. Do you remember he and your mother arguing about you or anything? My father did stick up for me often with my evil stepmother, get her to back off on me or took her for a walk to calm down, etc.

[granite1]

my parents were divorced when I was very young . that is what my T is talking about .that he did not take custody of me when he knew this was going on and would bring me back to the mother after my visitations . I don't know it all confuses me and sends me crazy sometimes kind of like when she was telling me that my school reports were not bad at all and that she didn't see it the same as I did . but I was beat all the time badly over these reports so I knew they were bad .I was bad . she says no . it confuses me .I cant just let go of how things are.

[Lauliza]

I think your T was very irresponsible to say something like this. It is not her place to make judgements and tell you how to feel about someone. Using such strong terms as "evil" when you don't use them yourself is putting thoughts in your head. She may be trying to help you see the reality of your situation, but the truth is there are always many sides to reality and complex reasons for people's behavior. To label someone bad or good does not sound like a helpful way for you to heal at all.

[Teepee]

Granite,

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position of conflict within yourself due to some powerful words handled without care.

There are many situations we as humans do not know or understand, my parents divorced when I was 7ish my mother is a red haired Irish catholic (bit of a temper shall we say) I remember going to my dads on some weekends battered and bruised he would just ignore them and let us have a whale of a time. Like your dad he always took me back, I never really understood that. Decades down the track I learnt from my dad that he fell into a depressive state and took to the bottle to cope becoming a full blown alcoholic (and still is) my mother was not only financial controlling him but emotionally as well even after their divorce.

While I have conflicted thoughts about his actions he honestly thought that we were better off living full time with mum. I will never understand what it was like for him and the choices he made, but he made them based on what was happening for him and his coping abilities.

Basically I'm saying we as humans are flawed and therefore fluid nothing is black and white I will never hold all the insight into my fathers thinking and choices he moves from being a hero to weak to everything in between. No one can tell me where he should be placed, what box or list especially not my T.