[HazelGirl]

My T keeps going over safe place mental imagery and containment exercises with me, and I still can't get either of them to work. It's so frustrating. I feel like I'm failing at this stuff and I won't be able to handle what we are dealing with if I don't learn these skills. But they don't work for me. Nothing seems to really work to calm me down once I've become emotionally overwhelmed (either anxious, or sad, or self-loathing, etc...), no matter what I do. I hit a point and there's no way I can bring myself out of it.

I don't really know what to do. I want to get these right, but I can't seem to make the skills work. And then I end up feeling worse when they don't because I feel like a failure and I feel "stuck".

That crap don't work for me.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

That crap don't work for me.

Maybe because you call it crap?

I think the problem for me is letting go and allowing myself to relax.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Is there something that you DO find relaxing? Not necessarily the mental imagery or containment exercises, but just some one thing that you do to really and truly relax? Maybe that's your key...figuring out what one thing is most relaxing for you, and figuring out how to access that feeling or even do that one thing when you're feeling overwhelmed.

I know it's not easy, but I've found that it does help.

For me, that one thing is when one of my dogs sits in my lap. I hug her tightly and rest my chin on her back, and kind of lose myself in the feeling of just having her sitting in my lap. Her weight, fur, scent, warmth are all grounding for me. Last time I started dissociating in session, my T asked me to imagine my dog sitting in my lap. It was tough, and I couldn't really get it until I leaned over and rested my arms right where she sits on my legs...the pressure was enough to trigger the memory. Then, even though I felt foolish, I wrapped my arms around the air and kinda rested my chin forward as if she were there, and I felt myself calming just a bit.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

Is there something that you DO find relaxing? Not necessarily the mental imagery or containment exercises, but just some one thing that you do to really and truly relax? Maybe that's your key...figuring out what one thing is most relaxing for you, and figuring out how to access that feeling or even do that one thing when you're feeling overwhelmed.

I know it's not easy, but I've found that it does help.

For me, that one thing is when one of my dogs sits in my lap. I hug her tightly and rest my chin on her back, and kind of lose myself in the feeling of just having her sitting in my lap. Her weight, fur, scent, warmth are all grounding for me. Last time I started dissociating in session, my T asked me to imagine my dog sitting in my lap. It was tough, and I couldn't really get it until I leaned over and rested my arms right where she sits on my legs...the pressure was enough to trigger the memory. Then, even though I felt foolish, I wrapped my arms around the air and kinda rested my chin forward as if she were there, and I felt myself calming just a bit.

Not really. My T asked me to try to think of a time where I felt truly relaxed, and I replied that I don't think I have ever been truly relaxed. I don't know what it feels like and I don't have any memories of it.

[RedSun]

Hang on in there Hazelgirl, it will work eventually and then hopefully it will be a huge gift for you.
I think that a good way to get the safe place imagery is to try doing it maybe first thing in the morning before you get up, or sometime when you feel okay...once you can get used to accessing safe place when you feel okay, it will be easier to find when you are anxious if that makes sense...
Also, maybe aim for a 'snapshot' to start with, count to ten and picture your safe place just for that count of ten. Don't even put yourself in that space, just see it, and maybe add a few more details each time. That way, your mind will be familiar with it, so when it comes naturally you can then enter that safe space and be....safe
Hope it works xxx

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Maybe because you call it crap?

I think the problem for me is letting go and allowing myself to relax.

I think safe places are for when we aren't relaxed. If we have to be relaxed first, it kinda defeats the object.

[RedSun]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

I think safe places are for when we aren't relaxed. If we have to be relaxed first, it kinda defeats the object.

I think it's important to be relaxed when you start to create your safe space. Then you can take time to get it just how you want it, and get familiar with it, and your mind will recognise it and understand it. Then, when you are stressed or anxious it is hopefully there, ready to access. But definitely imagery work needs to start in an okay place.

The ok place us outside first. We internalise it as we experience it. It has to be felt and tested. I don't think imaginary is felt and tested.

[Favorite Jeans]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Maybe because you call it crap?

I think the problem for me is letting go and allowing myself to relax.

Haha! Don't blame though. Not Mouse and not yourself. Those skills don't work for everyone (and probably don't work consistently for anyone.) Maybe finding calming and containment is a process that can't be rushed, maybe you haven't found the right strategy yet or maybe for you, at this time, self-soothing is too hard, too elusive, and you need something else (eg DBT group, crisis line, different meds). While we are certainly all responsible for putting in the work and doing our best, I don't think we should perpetuate the notion that it is the client who is at fault when the T's interventions are unhelpful or slow to have effect.

[rainbow8]

Did you ever try yoga? Or listen to relaxation tapes? I never could relax but my T taught me how. Also my yoga teacher. Swimming relaxes me so I can visualize being in water. Just some ideas. Holding Ts hand makes me relax instantly too. I think visualizations would be hard if you don't have a real place or activity where you feel relaxed. Do you have any hobbies?

[junkDNA]

maybe try to notice the signs before u get into the place of no return. there are signs that things are going to get to that point usually. so i think the mental imagery and stuff would be more beneficial if u tried to do it before u get so overwhelmed. maybe work on figuring out the symptoms u feel before it gets to that point.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Red75

Hang on in there Hazelgirl, it will work eventually and then hopefully it will be a huge gift for you.
I think that a good way to get the safe place imagery is to try doing it maybe first thing in the morning before you get up, or sometime when you feel okay...once you can get used to accessing safe place when you feel okay, it will be easier to find when you are anxious if that makes sense...
Also, maybe aim for a 'snapshot' to start with, count to ten and picture your safe place just for that count of ten. Don't even put yourself in that space, just see it, and maybe add a few more details each time. That way, your mind will be familiar with it, so when it comes naturally you can then enter that safe space and be....safe
Hope it works xxx

Originally Posted by Red75

I think it's important to be relaxed when you start to create your safe space. Then you can take time to get it just how you want it, and get familiar with it, and your mind will recognise it and understand it. Then, when you are stressed or anxious it is hopefully there, ready to access. But definitely imagery work needs to start in an okay place.

Originally Posted by _Mouse

The ok place us outside first. We internalise it as we experience it. It has to be felt and tested. I don't think imaginary is felt and tested.

And my struggle is with getting myself to relax while I practice it. I don't allow myself the comfort of relaxing. Sometimes, I feel like I don't deserve it, and sometimes I feel like it's bad or dangerous to relax. I am always at least a little stressed out.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Haha! Don't blame though. Not Mouse and not yourself. Those skills don't work for everyone (and probably don't work consistently for anyone.) Maybe finding calming and containment is a process that can't be rushed, maybe you haven't found the right strategy yet or maybe for you, at this time, self-soothing is too hard, too elusive, and you need something else (eg DBT group, crisis line, different meds). While we are certainly all responsible for putting in the work and doing our best, I don't think we should perpetuate the notion that it is the client who is at fault when the T's interventions are unhelpful or slow to have effect.

I didn't mean to blame. I just wanted to point out that calling something crap is a great way to guarantee it never works for you.

I have tried a variety of ways to relax (my T has gone over some DBT skills she thinks might help, for example), and I can't really. Some things will randomly work a little sometimes. But nothing works consistently, and the effects don't last for long enough to really pull myself out of those mindsets. Maybe I give up on each too quickly, I don't know. But if something isn't working, it becomes really hard to get me to practice because I feel like I'm wasting my time and proving to myself yet again how much of a failure I am.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Did you ever try yoga? Or listen to relaxation tapes? I never could relax but my T taught me how. Also my yoga teacher. Swimming relaxes me so I can visualize being in water. Just some ideas. Holding Ts hand makes me relax instantly too. I think visualizations would be hard if you don't have a real place or activity where you feel relaxed. Do you have any hobbies?

I paint, but it's more a distraction than something that relaxes me. I feel just as stressed out/anxious when I paint, I just don't notice it as much. I don't really have much else I do as a hobby regularly.

Originally Posted by junkDNA

maybe try to notice the signs before u get into the place of no return. there are signs that things are going to get to that point usually. so i think the mental imagery and stuff would be more beneficial if u tried to do it before u get so overwhelmed. maybe work on figuring out the symptoms u feel before it gets to that point.

This is hard for me to do, because often, the extremes are triggered by normal things. For example, messing up at something causes me to feel self-blame, but then the self-blame gets too severe and I end up wanting to hurt myself because I'm such a failure. Or I get triggered by something I read. I don't really have a lot of time to realize I've been triggered before I'm in the middle of extreme anxiety attacks and panic. It's really, really hard to notice and to stop.

[kororain]

I feel like you a lot HG. I go from zero to self loathing in .3 seconds. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any warning signs. Just BOOM BAM DONE.

I also don't relax. Haha, T doesn't even try with that anymore.

I feel like I'm just not good at therapy. It's like I don't retain anything I learn. I'm just not good at it.

Also, it feels weird to me for people to be concerned about me feeling suicidal. I've felt like that as long as I can remember. It just *is*. It feels so odd to be in a place where people think it's something to be concerned about. Seems over the top.

[stopdog]

I found qigong breathing to work quicker for me then, after the breathing, I can often meditate or listen to guided imagery. The breathing exercises also help my students.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I still can't get either of them to work. It's so frustrating. I feel like I'm failing at this stuff and I won't be able to handle what we are dealing with if I don't learn these skills. But they don't work for me. Nothing seems to really work to calm me down once I've become emotionally overwhelmed (either anxious, or sad, or self-loathing, etc...), no matter what I do. I hit a point and there's no way I can bring myself out of it.

What resonates for me in my past experience with grounding, containering, and then mindfulness skills is that for a long time I was very fixed on the belief that they didn't "work" for me. Or that they worked when I was in T's office, but not when I was outside of it. What I found is that my telling myself things that made it seem fixed, that I couldn't "learn", that I was "failing", that it just "didn't work", was preventing me from actually learning and using these tools. That my core issue was more that I was not open to being in the moment with my emotional reactions-- too busy pushing the emotions away, which also prevented me from being open to containing them as well. When I was able to be more open, to tell myself that I could try to ground or create a safe container, that it was possible that it could work for me, that things could change from what they were the last time-- which reduced my anxiety about "failure"-- that's when they started to shift. Less anxious about failing, less anxious about experiencing the full weight of the emotional reaction.

[freefallin]

I can't relax. When I try to relax, I get more unrelaxed lol. Like if I try to watch a movie to "relax and do something for myself," the whole time I'm like, "Gotta get up. Can't sit here. Must go find something to eat. Must do homework. Must pace around. Must do jumping jacks. K, I 'relaxed' for 5 minutes, that's good enough." haha. It sucks.

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

My T keeps going over safe place mental imagery and containment exercises with me, and I still can't get either of them to work. It's so frustrating. I feel like I'm failing at this stuff and I won't be able to handle what we are dealing with if I don't learn these skills. But they don't work for me. Nothing seems to really work to calm me down once I've become emotionally overwhelmed (either anxious, or sad, or self-loathing, etc...), no matter what I do. I hit a point and there's no way I can bring myself out of it.

I don't really know what to do. I want to get these right, but I can't seem to make the skills work. And then I end up feeling worse when they don't because I feel like a failure and I feel "stuck".

Are you learning DBT skills? I am, too.

If you want we can do them together? I'm finding them a tad difficult too, but recently found a place that does mindfilness counseling, so I'm going to start seeing them once a week to help me reinforce this bc I cant find a DBT skills group, and my T doesn't want to offer any skills support between sessions.

I too got stumped on the visualization exercises, but only bc I didn't feel like making up my own safe place. I think that needs to be done with a therapist, not alone, bc I honestly couldn't think of anything. I have a lot of guided mindfulness recordings and visualizations that are nice, though, if you want any. I keep them on my ipod. Also, though, even if you dont think its working you need to assign it a "cue" word- for me its PEACE and then train yourself to automatically relax when you use the cue word, to segue into your mindfulness or visualization. I havent experienced success yet but its only been a week and it takes 30 days I think to develop a habit, and its something we have to do every single day preferable more than once in order to see results.

[Favorite Jeans]

Hazel it sounds like you're smart and self-reliant and have always had to be extremely mature. You're probably used to getting things quickly? Like in school and stuff? It's probably a relatively new experience to try and try to get something and not be able to. I bet you're usually quite efficient. This is a different kind of learning though: learning how not to feel like a failure when you don't immediately succeed. You can't just pick it up by studying harder. Being more of a perfectionist isn't going to help you. That's where saying it's crap and feeling frustrated with your T rather than loathing yourself for being a loser is actually huge progress.

For you, it's probably healthier to embrace your "***** this!" impulse and be angry that your T can't help you more than turn this around into further evidence that you suck for being imperfect. (NB I don't mean that your T actually sucks, I mean it's okay for you feel like she/the process sucks instead of blaming yourself.)

I bet that there have been periods in your life where letting your guard down (relaxing) could have had very serious consequences for you. Your current way of doing things has probably served you well and kept you safe in the life you had as a child and adolescent. You probably didn't get to stare at clouds and be all relaxed and dreamy. You were probably vigilant and that was the safest way to be. So cut yourself some slack. You don't inherently suck at this, you had many many years of doing things differently in order to stay as safe as you could.

If you're growing up in an unsafe place, relaxation is dangerous, right?

It takes a while for your body and the primitive parts of your brain to learn to that now it's actually helpful.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Hazel it sounds like you're smart and self-reliant and have always had to be extremely mature. You're probably used to getting things quickly? Like in school and stuff? It's probably a relatively new experience to try and try to get something and not be able to. I bet you're usually quite efficient. This is a different kind of learning though: learning how not to feel like a failure when you don't immediately succeed. You can't just pick it up by studying harder. Being more of a perfectionist isn't going to help you. That's where saying it's crap and feeling frustrated with your T rather than loathing yourself for being a loser is actually huge progress.

For you, it's probably healthier to embrace your "***** this!" impulse and be angry that your T can't help you more than turn this around into further evidence that you suck for being imperfect. (NB I don't mean that your T actually sucks, I mean it's okay for you feel like she/the process sucks instead of blaming yourself.)

I bet that there have been periods in your life where letting your guard down (relaxing) could have had very serious consequences for you. Your current way of doing things has probably served you well and kept you safe in the life you had as a child and adolescent. You probably didn't get to stare at clouds and be all relaxed and dreamy. You were probably vigilant and that was the safest way to be. So cut yourself some slack. You don't inherently suck at this, you had many many years of doing things differently in order to stay as safe as you could.

If you're growing up in an unsafe place, relaxation is dangerous, right?

It takes a while for your body and the primitive parts of your brain to learn to that now it's actually helpful.

This is exactly it. I have ALWAYS gotten things quickly. I didn't ever get help, and I had to figure everything out by myself and immediately.

And no, there was no relaxing. The second I relaxed, I did something that caused me to get in trouble. And trouble was never good, although it was unpredictable. Relaxing was dangerous, and if I looked like I was having too much fun, I was punished for that, as well.

It's really, really frustrating to me to not immediately "get" this. It makes me more worried because messing up and not doing well were also met with punishment. So not trying is safer because then I don't need to be punished, if that makes sense? It's really, really hard to just relax, even by myself. I have told my T a million times that I am more afraid of my own reactions to myself than of anything she might say or do, so relaxing around myself feels really bad.

I don't "get" imagery and mindfulness exercises either, and it wasn't for lack of trying. It was just so hokey to me. My T and I nearly came to blows about this stuff. What he finally realized was that I had my own perfectly effective ways of calming and containing that may not fit into any usual mindfulness exercises and so long as I was managing that way, he did not need to impose formal imagery and mindfulness exercises (which actually made things worse for me because they seemed superficial and hokey to me).

[peaches100]

Hi Hazelgirl,

A couple of things stuck out for me when I read your post. First, it sounds like you are already too worked up when you start visualizing your safe place, so it doesn't work. I tend to get too overwhelmed with emotion also, and it's hard for me to know when it's getting to be "too much for me." By the time I realize it is too much, I just can't make the visualization skills work at all. I had to learn first how to catch myself before I got too upset - catch it earlier. And then start using the safe place visualization before it has become too overwhelming. It takes paying close attention to how you feel in your body.

The other thing that stood out is that you mentioned you don't think you have ever felt truly relaxed. I agree that if you don't know how it feels to be relaxed, it's awfully hard to produce that sensation for yourself by using visualization. After all, you don't know what the feeling feels like that you are trying to feel! Again, you might have to first, start paying close attention to how you feel in your body as you go throughout your days. If you notice something that makes you feel calm or relaxed, remember that, and then use the memory of that to help you when you visualize your safe place.

Unfortunately, I have problems with this too. I often think that in order to really have the safe place imagery work, and to replicate safe, comforting feelings, we need to first know how they feel. I think it sometimes takes another person to help us feel that comfort first by treating us in a safe, caring, nurturing way. Once we start knowing how it feels, we can use the memory of it to call that feeling back into us during safe place imagery.

People who grew up with parents or others who comforted them and helped them feel safe already know what that feels like, so it's not so hard to use visualizing to bring it back up. But for those of us who didn't experience being helped to tolerate distress by being comforted or helped to calm down, it can be very hard to learn it on our own.

[Favorite Jeans]

So, ironically, it's easier to hate yourself and tell yourself how slow/dumb/lazy you are than it is to say "hey, this is hard stuff, I'll get it eventually but it takes lots of time. Also there are vey good reasons why I don't already know how to do it." I get it, I really do.

For me, it's helpful to try to break it down to it's smallest component. The other day I was fully freaking out (about a stressful present situation, not a flashback or flood of memories or whatever) and I kept reminding myself that success here just meant I had to keep breathing and make sure my kids had supper. I didn't make myself calm down or relax, just survive. It was helpful not to expect that I would feel calm or safe or anything grand like that. I just had function well enough to accomplish the most basic tasks.

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

This is exactly it. I have ALWAYS gotten things quickly. I didn't ever get help, and I had to figure everything out by myself and immediately.

And no, there was no relaxing. The second I relaxed, I did something that caused me to get in trouble. And trouble was never good, although it was unpredictable. Relaxing was dangerous, and if I looked like I was having too much fun, I was punished for that, as well.

It's really, really frustrating to me to not immediately "get" this. It makes me more worried because messing up and not doing well were also met with punishment. So not trying is safer because then I don't need to be punished, if that makes sense? It's really, really hard to just relax, even by myself. I have told my T a million times that I am more afraid of my own reactions to myself than of anything she might say or do, so relaxing around myself feels really bad.

[msxyz]

That reminds me of how I start gasping for air every time an exercise includes breathing. It's suppose to help but it just ends up in feeling panic, and it doesn't make a difference whether I do it at home or therapy or the group I went to for a while.

When I was at my worst I literally would have had to practice a skill non stop just to not completely break down, forget about even feeling relaxed. Of course that is unrealistic if you have responsibilities, I can't take a hot shower all day long when I have a job or kids to take care of. I use the shower as an example because it is something that works for me and I have been in the position where I would immediately start sobbing again when the already long shower was over.

It often made me think that while those skills are helpful generally speaking, they are most useful in a hospital setting or in the life of a single who doesn't work, or for people who don't have very severe problems.

[SheHulk07]

Breathing exercises and imagery don't work for me, either. I've tried numerous times. I've had one therapist tell me that if you have a history of trauma, it can be harder. Almost like your body won't allow you to fully relax because it fears something bad will happen. If that makes sense.

Instead of breathing exercises, my group T suggested me trying yoga. More of a moving mediation that might be easier.