[guilloche]

I got to T in about 3 hours. One of the things I've struggled with is not being able to really feel like the "emotional, messed up me" shows up in therapy. I feel very much like, in therapy, I'm still the "social, appropriate, functional" me.

I wrote some stuff when I was frustrated after T... and want to bring it in to show T. But I am afraid it might be offensive/hurtful. Really, just one paragraph in particular...

If you have a sec, could you take a look and give me some feedback? Is this "too much"? Should I maybe take this part out? Thanks.

Stuff I wrote:

I can’t go in and say...
... “I don’t know if I can trust you yet. I don’t know if you know what you’re doing. This whole thing about going clubbing – what the heck was that? Is there really any place in your brain that thinks that’s a GOOD idea FOR ME? Because let me tell you, that’s about the last place on earth I want to go!”

Thanks... part in bold is what worries me!

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Stuff I wrote:

I can’t go in and say...
... “I don’t know if I can trust you yet. I don’t know if you know what you’re doing. This whole thing about going clubbing – what the heck was that? Is there really any place in your brain that thinks that’s a GOOD idea FOR ME? Because let me tell you, that’s about the last place on earth I want to go!”

Thanks... part in bold is what worries me!

I think you might want to edit out the bolded part. She very well may not know what she's doing, but I don't think telling her you think so will be helpful, because T will likely be insulted.

Could you rephrase it to say, "I don't feel like we're on the same page" or "I think you see me differently than I am really am...".

I saw this older psychiatrist once who addressed my social anxiety by always telling me I should join church groups to meet guys. First, I didn't go to church and second it was so out of touch with who I was that it drove me nuts. I found someone else, but if you plan to continue with this T then you definitely need to address this so T gets who you really are.

[guilloche]

Thanks... that's what I'm worried about, I may go ahead and just delete it.

I feel like it's totally reasonable to not know if a T knows what they're doing (it's only been ~5 sessions, and how would I know, other than he tells me he knows what he's doing), but I realize it could provoke a strong reaction

thanks

[Soccer mom]

I think you need to let him know even if you end up rewording it. Many times there are just miscommunications especially in the beginning.

[guilloche]

Thanks Soccer Mom.... I wish it wasn't so hard and anxiety producing!

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by guilloche

I got to T in about 3 hours. One of the things I've struggled with is not being able to really feel like the "emotional, messed up me" shows up in therapy. I feel very much like, in therapy, I'm still the "social, appropriate, functional" me.

I wrote some stuff when I was frustrated after T... and want to bring it in to show T. But I am afraid it might be offensive/hurtful. Really, just one paragraph in particular...

If you have a sec, could you take a look and give me some feedback? Is this "too much"? Should I maybe take this part out? Thanks.

Stuff I wrote:

I can’t go in and say...
... “I don’t know if I can trust you yet. I don’t know if you know what you’re doing. This whole thing about going clubbing – what the heck was that? Is there really any place in your brain that thinks that’s a GOOD idea FOR ME? Because let me tell you, that’s about the last place on earth I want to go!”

Thanks... part in bold is what worries me!

personally i would go in and read exactly what you wrote, but then again i am not the politest person and i think my T hates me, so take my opinion very lightly.

[guilloche]

Thanks InRealLife... You've also been seeing your T for years, right? I'm new to this T... and still scared that if I say something too mean, he'll kick me out. (I totally expect a response like, "if you don't think I know what I'm doing, why are you still here?" ugh!)

I don't know, I kind of admire your ability to be "not the politest person" in therapy. I think that, with the right therapist, that could be a great thing - it probably helps make the issues really clear and upfront. Versus being overly polite, and hiding all the issues... until they accidentally explode one day!

[musial]

I would also read it exactly the same as you first wrote. It's totally not that shocking or strange to question a T's expertise... they probably expect that at some point in the therapy and a good T would use it as the start of a good conversation, I think.

[JustShakey]

I once told previous T that she didn't know what she was doing. It went down like a lead balloon. I suspect she was challenging me though (I avoid conflict). I would still say it though, it's your therapy and you are entitled to your concerns. Be prepared to defend yourself though.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by InRealLife45

personally i would go in and read exactly what you wrote, but then again i am not the politest person and i think my T hates me, so take my opinion very lightly.

And you've been with your T for over a year and have an established connection, even if it's on shaky ground right now. Since this is still in the beginning stages for the OP, I would hold off on judging competence so harshly to his face unless he is really awful.

There's nothing wrong with questioning credentials, that's totally expected. Letting the T know she's not getting you, you're frustrated or whatever else is also totally fine, I think.

[Perna]

I taught myself to turn everything around on myself and not worry about T and what T was doing. I did not know what I was doing and I had consulted T. T had more experience doing something than I did. I would go in and have a conversation, not read it. Tell her you don't like the clubbing idea. How can T know if you do not tell her? She cannot get information about how you differ from others for whom clubbing is a good idea by sitting and starting at you? She has to suggest what she has found helpful for others or what she thinks might be helpful for you. I noted that you said it was, " the last place on earth I want to go". Who wants to go somewhere difficult for one? Who wants to try something new and scary? Who wants to sit and talk to a stranger in a small room for 45 minutes about personal difficulties one is having? But I chose to do the latter so. . . "in for a penny, in for a pound"?

[guilloche]

Thanks... I'm starting to think I might be more comfortable NOT giving it to him at all, and trying to talk through some of the issues. My original idea was to hand it to him to read, specifically because he doesn't get to see that side of me (emotionally honest) - since I'm not able to do that while in therapy.

But I think that makes me way too uncomfortable, and that we'd still need to talk about all this stuff, and him trying to ask questions based on what I wrote (there were several more paragraphs) will not lead me to be "that person", but cause me to be more stressed and shut down.

So I think I'll keep the writing to myself, and just look at it, and use it as a jumping off point to talk. I think we won't get into everything - but maybe for now - that's ok.

I will definitely tell him what I don't like about the clubbing idea, however. In my case, he wants me to meet more people - and I agree, that's great. But there is literally *nothing* about the club environment that I find compelling (I hate loud noises, crowds, alcohol, late nights, etc!) - so I think not only would I be miserable there, but it seems unlikely that I'd find the type of people that I click with. I'm open to trying *other* things that look more promising (I'm thinking about signing up for an acting class!).

OK... this makes sense to me now - thanks for the feedback, and for letting me think through this! I feel like a huge bundle of stress just disappeared in the last 20 seconds! Yay!

Thanks!

[precaryous]

My T told me that she expects to make mistakes along the way and if that happens, she wants me to talk about it.

I would read it exactly as you wrote it. You have trust issues. I feel that's a pretty common issue. Your T has dealt with trust issues before.

[guilloche]

Thanks Precaryous... I'm not even sure that they're mistakes yet. I think you're right that it's my issues... not just trust, but not being able to be open/talk, being conflict-avoidant, abanndonment fears... the whole gamut.

I think if I knew him better and had been in therapy longer, maybe I could... but at this point, it's a bit too terrifying. I think talking about it though could be helpful in getting me there (I hope)!

Thanks!

[Perna]

Originally Posted by guilloche

But there is literally *nothing* about the club environment that I find compelling (I hate loud noises, crowds, alcohol, late nights, etc!) - so I think not only would I be miserable there, but it seems unlikely that I'd find the type of people that I click with.

My husband and I take friends with us every Tuesday night to a bar where there's team trivia :-) https://www.facebook.com/triviaisnewsexy Shop around, there can be all kinds of things going on that don't have to do with what you think of with the word "club". There are going to be bottomholes and jercks everywhere, you have to learn to play around them When you meet people you like, ask them where they go (I got my dentist's wife and employees going for trivia now :-) and check it out?

[rothfan6]

I wouldn't delete it. I called my t out on some stuff and he really appreciated it. It's honest and let's your t know where your at and how well or not, you two are working together and understanding each other.

[BlessedRhiannon]

I would probably read it mostly as is, but I've been with my T for 5 years, so we have the type of relationship where I can say "you know that thing you suggested last session? where did that come from, because you should know by now that would totally not work for me at all and I'm not even willing to consider it!"

I do think it's fine to tell your T that you don't trust him yet - I told my T that frequently for years! I think it's fine to talk about his suggestions and why you're uncomfortable with them.

I've found that when I write things in between sessions, my T prefers to have me read them to her and we discuss as I'm reading it. I prefer reading things to her, because if I suddenly decide not to share something I've written, I can just skip over that section.

[HazelGirl]

I don't think there's anything wrong with anything you said there. If she's a good T, she can handle it.

[Soccer mom]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Thanks Precaryous... I'm not even sure that they're mistakes yet. I think you're right that it's my issues... not just trust, but not being able to be open/talk, being conflict-avoidant, abanndonment fears... the whole gamut.

I think if I knew him better and had been in therapy longer, maybe I could... but at this point, it's a bit too terrifying. I think talking about it though could be helpful in getting me there (I hope)!

Thanks!

This sounds very similar to me. I was worried to tell many things to my T. We discovered in my last session when I admitted something very very difficult. She asked about my relationships with other people and why I don't disclose much emotional stuff. I said because I may end up losing them as a friend. She pointed out that I don't want to get close to people because I might lose them. Which led me to realize I wasn't telling her stuff because I was afraid I would lose her (be referred). I ended up telling her most everything and DIDN'T lose her.
So, it's ok that you don't trust him yet. Give him a little bit each session where he shows you that you can trust him. Each time it will get easier and you'll realize he's not going anywhere. Just took me 3 months of almost weekly sessions. If he can't take it, then he's not a good fit for you. I'm sure he's heard all sorts of things and expects trust issues in the beginning from many clients.

[pmbm]

I personally don't think that it's bad for you to tell a therapist that you don't know if he/she knows what they are doing. You really don't know. In lots of ways. And not only do you need to trust the therapist, you need to trust their education and experience. You don't know if your T knows what he is doing. Because of that, it may be important to you to have him explain the reasoning for what he says and suggests. Let him help you understand the theories that he is using. Expect him to do a lot of psycho education for you. Read up on what he's talking about. Discuss what you read with him. Ask him why. Why go out clubbing? Why try this exercise? Why is that feeling/question/topic important right now. If something doesn't work for you, try to talk about it. I know it's hard. I often struggle with that kind of stuff. But remember, he works for you. You can't question everything and not try any of the suggestions. That won't get you anywhere. But try not to be too afraid to ask. It's your journey. Your therapy. (Okay. I'm stepping offy soap box now and reminding myself to take some of this advice)

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Thanks InRealLife... You've also been seeing your T for years, right? I'm new to this T... and still scared that if I say something too mean, he'll kick me out. (I totally expect a response like, "if you don't think I know what I'm doing, why are you still here?" ugh!)

I don't know, I kind of admire your ability to be "not the politest person" in therapy. I think that, with the right therapist, that could be a great thing - it probably helps make the issues really clear and upfront. Versus being overly polite, and hiding all the issues... until they accidentally explode one day!

yea never a good idea to hold it in bc it does explode eventually. i think most T's prefer clients who share their doubts/angers rather than hold on to it, bc when it festers it can silently affect the therapy. How new are you with this T? I think not knowing him well should make it easier- of course you have doubts about him bc you dont know enough about him yet to know if he can help you. maybe he'll respond with the ways he is qualified to help you, rather than "guilloche, leave immediately." I really doubt he's going to kick you out regardless what you say, as long as you don't threaten him.

Good luck whatever you decide! But my vote is stay true to the original. If you think you'll chicken out reading it as is, record it on your phone and give it to him to listen to. I do that sometimes.

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

I've found that when I write things in between sessions, my T prefers to have me read them to her and we discuss as I'm reading it. I prefer reading things to her, because if I suddenly decide not to share something I've written, I can just skip over that section.

how does this work, exactly? I'd love to listen to one of your sessions with my T lol to show her how its supposed to be done. Rather than say absolutely nothing when I read her my thoughts.

[guilloche]

Hey. I'm back. I feel a little awful now.

I don't know, I'm starting to think it's just not a good match. I don't know that there IS a good match for me. I'm having a lot of trouble imagining what therapy looks like when it's helpful. I just can't see how it will ever be helpful.

I talked through the issues, and only read one section (which I heavily edited as I was reading).

He talked alot about safety, and wanting me to feel safe and connected, and asked several times what he could do to help that happen... and I have no idea.

But there was some weirdness too. And I totally should have said something, and I just freaked out a little inside and couldn't figure out how to. So, for example... he is sitting in a chair, and I'm on the couch. He has another chair where he usually puts his feet up, but at some point (after telling me I should speak up in real time if something bothers me, of course) - he puts his feet up on the couch, so the bottoms are pointing straight at me! What... the... heck? I can't figure out why anyone, much less a therapist, would think that was good - especially given that the conversation was pretty difficult to start with?

I don't know. I absolutely believe he's trying, and that he wants to help, but I can't even figure out what therapy can accomplish at this point. I mean, if his best advice is: go out and make some friends (which came up again today) - yeah, I get that that's important... but really, I have people in life who can, will, and have told me that for free.

On top of that, he was scheduling stuff and talking to people on the phone with his door open (there's no hall or anything, the waiting area is right outside of his office door). He partially shut it when he got on the phone, and the radio was on, but I could hear more than I probably should have. One client is a doctor who needs to schedule an hour and a half sessions, apparently. Another has someone who is at a hotel, taking some kind of drugs or medicine. I found it super ironic that part of what he said in my session was along the lines of "I think people haven't respected your boundaries, and I don't want to do that" (before putting his feet up next to me) but he doesn't think to completely shut the door when on the phone with other clients?

And... the stupidest thing. About respecting boundaries. So, a couple weeks ago I had given him some very hard, private stuff (in writing, because I couldn't talk about it). I told him I wasn't ready to talk about it, but I wanted him to know, so he'd understand some of the other stuff I was talking about. And, last time, he dutifully did not bring it up - so yay. So this week, he says... "You remember the stuff you wrote out and didn't want to talk about it? Did you see what I did with it? (i.e. not asking any questions)" - I nodded, but a tiny bit mortified that he IS bringing it up, by bringing up that he's not bringing it up! Then he points to a thing (filing cabinet?) and says, "It's right here - so we won't talk about it until you're ready" - OMG. I don't want to know where it's at. I wanted to get rid of it, that's why I gave it to you! And, btw he's only in that office 1 day/week... so crap, I hope that thing locks or something, b/c I hate having my... you know, most innermost scariest stuff... just sitting there for some random other person to go through.

Yeah. I don't know how therapy can be helpful. I am thinking about quitting again. I'm sure that he wants to help, but I'm not sure he's really a good fit for me... and I don't want to go broke trying to figure it out

(Sorry for the length... just ugh. Plus somebody before me must have had perfume on, and the smell on the couch attached to my shirt... so I can still smell it!)

[guilloche]

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

I would probably read it mostly as is, but I've been with my T for 5 years, so we have the type of relationship where I can say "you know that thing you suggested last session? where did that come from, because you should know by now that would totally not work for me at all and I'm not even willing to consider it!"

I do think it's fine to tell your T that you don't trust him yet - I told my T that frequently for years! I think it's fine to talk about his suggestions and why you're uncomfortable with them.

I've found that when I write things in between sessions, my T prefers to have me read them to her and we discuss as I'm reading it. I prefer reading things to her, because if I suddenly decide not to share something I've written, I can just skip over that section.

Thanks... I totally skipped things and edited as I talked. That was helpful in the moment, though perhaps not exactly the "emotionally honest" I was going for. (I mostly skipped the stuff saying how he should be more worried about me spinning out, b/c last time I was in therapy I was in a truly terrible place and he doesn't know or get that, and doesn't seem to see the looming fallout!).

[guilloche]

Originally Posted by Soccer mom

This sounds very similar to me. I was worried to tell many things to my T. We discovered in my last session when I admitted something very very difficult. She asked about my relationships with other people and why I don't disclose much emotional stuff. I said because I may end up losing them as a friend. She pointed out that I don't want to get close to people because I might lose them. Which led me to realize I wasn't telling her stuff because I was afraid I would lose her (be referred). I ended up telling her most everything and DIDN'T lose her.

Thanks Soccer Mom... Yeah, it sounds like we have a bit in common That's interesting and something to think about. I think for me... part of it isn't just the sharing of stuff, it's my behavior. There has really only been ONE person I can think of who has let me "be mad" at him (and he's one of my most favorite people in the world right now, because of that). I don't know if T could handle my mad, bratty, unreasonable, inner self - and I don't think anyone can. So that side gets locked up tight, for the sake of harmonious relationships!

Thanks PMBM - you said really well what I was trying to say (that I honestly don't know and can't know at this point if he knows what he's doing.) I'll have to think about how to bring up what you're saying... because right now he's not doing alot that I can say, "explain the reasoning here please". It's hard.

Thanks InRealLife45 - that all makes sense... except I *have* been kicked out of therapy before! After the therapist specifically reassured me that he wouldn't kick me out (he sent me to a consult-T for diagnosis, I asked if this might lead to him terminating therapy and he said... "Absolutely not!". That's a really strong statement... and then I got kicked out, because "it would be unethical for me to see you when I don't have any experience with your diagnosis... " Very much a "see you, don't let the door hit you on the way out" crazy experience. I've also had a T that after 3 sessions decided she didn't want to see me, and I strongly suspect it was the SI - that I had worked *so* incredibly hard to be honest about (and thus, have not told new T about at all). So, while I believe T wants to help... I have very little reason to believe that there couldn't be something that makes him go, "oh rats, I can't deal with this - off you go!"

Phew... sorry I hope I didn't miss anyone. Thanks for your help and sharing... I appreciate all the help figuring this stuff out.