[scorpiosis37]

I just got back from session. I’ve been really struggling the past month. I’ve been needing to assert pretty strong boundaries with my friends and family because the demands have been very heavy and I just don’t have any “extra” to give right now. I’ve also been struggling to find anyone in my life who has the capacity to offer any support or nurturing to me. I’m a very tactile person and when I’m upset and crying, what I really need is someone to put their arm around me and tell me that things are going to be okay. I’ve also run into the problem with close friends where I think they’re offering support and, all of a sudden, they’re trying to get romantic with me—and I’m not interested. For that reason, it’s difficult for me to accept any physical comfort from someone unless I KNOW they’re safe. I also don’t like receiving physical comfort that comes with other “strings”—like, if I do this for you, then you need to do Y for me. Of course, in relationships, there is a healthy balance of give and take—but that is different than offering something with strings attached. At the moment, even though I do have some good friends, there just isn’t anyone who feels “safe” to ask for that kind of nurturing and support. I also saw an ex over the weekend and, under the guise of being “friendly,” she crossed a physical/sexual boundary. That really threw me into a tailspin. It made me feel unsafe, and it mad the desire for SAFE touch and comfort even stronger.

So, in therapy today, I told T all of this. Then I told her that, while it’s embarrassing for me to admit, she is someone I want that kind of comfort/nurturing from because she does feel safe. My T has always offered hugs and, if I ask, she will come and sit next to me on the couch and put her hand on my knee. While I didn’t ask for touch today, I did ask her—in general—if she is willing to provide the kind of nurturing I was talking about (hold me, or put an arm around me, or let me lean my head on her, shoulder, or something like that). Her response was that, while she doesn’t feel personally uncomfortable being nurturing towards me in that way—and that if we had meant under different circumstances we could have been friends and she’d be happy to sit with me like that on her living room couch— that it is not appropriate for therapy. She said that therapists can get in trouble for that, so she cannot provide that. However, she is happy to continue to give me hugs or sit next to me the way she has done in the past. I know that her answer was kind and I understand and respect her boundaries. I would never ask her to do something that made her uncomfortable, and I certainly have no intention of pushing that boundary. However, I couldn’t help but “feel” rejected and hurt by her answer. It hurt to know that the only person who feels physically safe right now isn’t willing to put an arm around me, when it feels like that is the only thing that could keep me from falling apart. My T acknowledged that there isn’t anyone else who is safe for me to ask, so she said she understands that means that my need will go unmet. Of course, I know that is my problem—not my T’s. I know it isn’t her job to meet my needs, just because there isn’t anyone else to meet them. I just can’t help but still feel hurt by her response. She also, unintentionally, said a really ****** follow-up thing: she said “you can get that need met in other ways, like by having kids. My kids meet that need for me, when I pick them up and hold them.” That hit two nerves. One, she is reiterating that she gives her kids exactly what she will not give me—knowing that I have maternal transference towards her. And, second, she knows that I want kids more than anything else in the world—but I’m not yet ready to have them (I’m 29 and am putting in 60-hr work weeks to “pay my dues” and save up the money so I can have them in the future). So, that statement really hurt. At that point, time was up, so I got up to leave. She reached out her arms to give me a hug, because we always hug at the end of sessions--- but I just felt a strong visceral reaction of “no” so I told her that I didn’t want to. I said I wasn’t upset and it wasn’t personal, I just felt closed off and didn’t want to be touched at that moment. Instead of hugging me, she patted me on the arm, and it felt disrespectful. I just told her, politely, that I didn’t want to be touched at that moment, and she did it anyway. I know that she was only trying to be comforting, but it felt violating instead. It just sent the message that “even T is not safe!” I know that my reaction of not wanting to be touched by her is a defensive reaction against her telling me that she will not hold me or sit with her arm around my shoulder. But that doesn’t make my desire not to be touched in that moment any less valid.

I’m not sure how this will impact my therapy from here on out. Right now, I feel myself putting a wall up and I feel an overwhelming desire NOT to be touched. I feel like I’m shutting her out of my heart. She’s kind of been my “rock” in the midst of everything that is going on in my life, and I’ve leaned on her quite a bit for support. She’s the one person who has always felt safe, both emotionally and physically. But, right now, she does not feel safe. These feelings might blow over with a little time, but I’m not sure. I know I’ll talk to her about this next week, but it just feels really unfortunate right now. I’m really struggling with what feels like depression (I’ve never been diagnosed), and it takes everything I have just to get up, go to work, fulfill social/family obligations, go to sleep, and then repeat ad infinitum. I really want to cry and have someone there to comfort me. But now that I know T cannot be that person, I don’t even have the benefit of using that “idea”- or fantasy- to get me through the next day. My T told me point blank that I just have to accept that I don’t have anyone in my life who can be nurturing towards me, so I just have to live with that unmet need. But how depressing is that? How am I supposed to look forward to anything, if the outlook for my life is that bleak?

[skysblue]

Oh my goodness. So sorry your T acted in such an insensitive way. And I think she's way way off by suggesting you have kids. What the hey???

[HazelGirl]

That is really unfortunate. I just can't see (outside of not making the kids comment) how else she could have handled that. It's unfortunate that sometimes we ask for things and are told no. That's part of relationships.

[Leah123]

I am sorry she said no and at how harsh the new reality of not feeling safe *right now* with anyone seems. (I am keeping in mind that feelings change, something I often struggle with when I feel hopeless or stuck.) I do think you'll feel a bit better with some time: post-session is awfully hard, our feelings are so stirred up and they take time to settle. Can you do some nurturing things for yourself right now? I've never found them quite so nice as hugs from others, but I have never been above giving myself a big hug and engaging in a little self-indulgence as needed, and find it healing and comforting. Enough to make it through if not ideal.

I know you're concerned about this feeling of shutting down and shutting her out and how that's been a recurring theme with people lately, but hopefully if you can just observe the feeling and not judge yourself for it, you'll find that while it seems bleak right now, things can and will get better, you'll work some of this through in therapy and come out ahead, though that's probably hard to believe.

I don't want to say too much as the reality is you're struggling and I don't blame you for feeling as volatile and concerned as you do.

I just have one suggestion: I imagine you'll shoot it down, but try to consider it, as I've turned to it during similar situations- massage.

The nurturing touch from a safe, licensed, established, gentle, group-praticing masseuse has been very therapeutic in my experience. I use massage as an adjunct to my talk therapy, dealing with PTSD, and while it's certainly sometimes difficult, on the whole, it's very comforting, relaxing and provides some of that same type of relief as being held. The beauty of it is there is absolutely no threat of strings being attached or boundary crossing: I set the limits about where I would like to be touched and they follow those closely. And of course, no need for reciprocation.

Hope you feel better soon.

[Terabithia]

Oh, therapeutic relationships can be so complicated! I can see how you wouldn't want her to touch you after that or try to be comforting, when she's the one that made you feel rejected!

Just because you don't have someone now that you feel safe with, does NOT mean that you won't have someone in the future, maybe next week, next month, a year from now - the future only seems bleak right now because the moment feels bleak. I can think of so many things in my life that I cried and cried about thinking things would never change, only for them to change, maybe gradually, maybe suddenly, but the future always holds what you don't yet know.

[Terabithia]

I'm not sure about seeing a massage therapist - I went that route and ended up asking him out. I was very lonely back then, so wanted more - not just once a week sessions.

But that's just me.

[lilypup]

I have had several T's during my life and have never touched or sat close to any of them. Two of them I absolutely loved...they were very helpful. One was a dud. I would just feel funny touching a T of either sex with the door closed. I would definitely try to meet those needs elsewhere.

[blur]

i'm pretty sure most Ts will not hold a client in the way you are expressing you'd like. that doesn't make it easier to accept that you aren't getting that need met right now and i'm sorry you don't have anyone to do that. hopefully, you can allow yourself to feel the sadness of not getting that need met and not shut down but i know it is hard when you are so stressed. i don't think it will be like this is in the future for you though. i do hope you tell your T that you've been feeling depressed. that is important to address.

p.s. i do also find your Ts comment about having kids to get your own needs met to be quite unhealthy.

[Terabithia]

I feel the same way lilypup - I don't know if it's a new generational thing, or what, but in my entire 27 years of therapy, touch (nor emails) has never been an issue and I wouldn't want it to be. I think it would have brought out my neediness - and I used to be pretty needy. It would have turned my therapy into a negative experience - complicating things and making things uncomfortable.

I have no great advice or insight, but wanted to say I empathize and I'm sorry you are going through this. I had a session where I was absolutely enraged at my T. He opened his arms like he was going to hug me at the end of the session, and I am pretty sure I gave him a death glare. He said "I know you're angry so ..." and dropped his arms. I said I was very angry and just stepped away and turned to leave and he reached out and patted me on the back as I left anyway. That just made me more angry. I get how being touched when you clearly indicated you did not wish to be touched would be totally intrusive and I am sorry she did not seem to understand that. I think in my case and possibly in yours, the T was trying meet his or her own needs by touching.

[pmbm]

I have had therapists who would hold me like that, and I'm pretty sure it made extraordinarily dependent on those amazing ladies who fulfilled some of that absent mother stuff for me. My therapist now does absolutely no touching, and I find that I'm more able to act like the adult I am with her. My need for nurturing touch come from a massage therapist who specializes in working with incest survivors. But I don't go to her for massage, per se. When I see her, I sit in a chair fully clothed, and she does rub my head, scalp, neck, shoulders because I hold much stress there, but the best thing she does is to place one hand on my heart and one on my back . she spontaneously did that one day when I started crying and it was some of the most healing touch I've ever felt. She does that on a regular basis as well as holding my forehead with one hand and the back of my head with the other. If I start crying, she whispers there there. That is the safest way I've found to get the nurturing touch I need. Also, my female priest will often sit with an arm around me while we talk.

[Terabithia]

that sounds so beautiful and healing, thank you for sharing

[Virginia1991]

Hi. I have had a recent similar conversation with my therapist. It hurts. I am doing my best to not shut her out and talk about it and keep working through issues. I am doing an alternative therapy called reiki (hands on version). I have never felt so much inner peace and healing. Basically it is done by a licensed massage therapist (clothes on) and she places her hands in different places all over my body. I love it when she places her hand on my heart and the other behind my head. She will hold this position for several minutes. I also love it when she puts my hand in between hers and holds my hand. Other places she touches that feel so healing are my forehead, hair, and arms.

I wish I would have discovered this earlier in life. I am still pretty early in the "reiki process" (only 7 sessions) but we are developing a close, safe relationship. Honestly, I feel like this is the first time these "nurturing needs" have been met and I have a loving family (and kids). For me, it was something deeper than being met by my s/o or one's own children. Let me know if you have any questions.

[feralkittymom]

Your T really misses the attunement boat at times, doesn't she? I don't disagree with her stance, but I think I would feel rejected by her neglect of the feelings underneath the need for nurturing. She seems to have a way of just resting in the "yes, that's an unmet need you'll have to accept" without offering any alternative, except the incredibly inappropriate and insensitive remark about having kids. And then to touch you despite your clear request that she not, strikes me as just so self-indulgent and negating. I really don't know how you change this because it does seem to be a repeating cycle.

I've also had a good experience with Reiki, the hands off variety. Despite my skepticism about it, I've found it quite powerful. But finding a practitioner who has both the extensive training and the gift is not easy. I'm lucky that by living in Asia, I've had access to the real thing, rather than the week-end seminar Reiki -"lite" version.

[Nightlight]

I relate to that so clearly. I'm so sorry it's something you're going through, and I really wish I had something more helpful to say that that.

[Joeygn72]

If your T. holds u that isn't an ethical violation but it's certainly frowned upon. Although your T.'s answer wasn't favorable to you it was healthy. My wife is an LMHC, I have some knowledge of the therapeutic process and a certain amount of distance (physical and emotional) needs to be maintained in therapy or your T becomes a friend and therapy becomes ineffective.

I'm sorry you are finding it difficult finding comfort outside of therapy. Hopefully you'll build a friendship with someone who can provide that.

[Sabra]

Good morning,

I understand your need for safe touch. My therapist did offer touch, not with my head on my shoulder, but hand holding and hugs. Another safe touch we utilized was me sitting on the floor next to her legs and she would put her hand in the middle of my upper back. We used hypnosis so I could recreate that feeling at any time. It was very healing.

I grew up in a very violent, sexually abusive house. As a child, I attached to our dogs and was able to receive comfort from them. I have had a dog all my life and I have found, even as an adult, their unconditional love and attachment have been a constant source of healing.

I understand the desire for an arm around you telling you, "there, there honey it's going to be okay". It would have been wonderful to receive as a child....it didn't happen and we are left with a void to fill. I hate having to grow up in front of people as an adult...it just sucks.

Regards,

Sabra

[pbutton]

How are you feeling today?

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Your T really misses the attunement boat at times, doesn't she? I don't disagree with her stance, but I think I would feel rejected by her neglect of the feelings underneath the need for nurturing. She seems to have a way of just resting in the "yes, that's an unmet need you'll have to accept" without offering any alternative, except the incredibly inappropriate and insensitive remark about having kids. And then to touch you despite your clear request that she not, strikes me as just so self-indulgent and negating. I really don't know how you change this because it does seem to be a repeating cycle.

You hit the nail on the head with that. I totally understand and respect her boundary, even though I feel a little hurt by it. The problem is that I keep asking her "what can I do differently" and "what are some other ways I can get that need met?" and she doesn't have a single thing to offer. She just tells me to accept it for now and that "in the future it will change." That just isn't helpful. I want to DO something. I want to do the WORK of therapy-- but what is that work? I don't know how to work towards getting that need met.

I understand that massage can be healing for some-- and I have gotten massages in the past. However, they don't feel safe right now and they don't meet the need that I am talking about. I've had a lot of experiences in the past with bad/unwanted touch, and it does not feel safe for me to receive touch from a stranger. It feels violating, not healing. The reason that I wish my T could meet this need-- even though she can't-- is because she's just about the only person who feels "safe." I have a lot of friends but I've had two experiences recently where my friends to turn our platonic relationship into something "more." It felt so violating that I just don't feel physically safe in those relationships right now, and it makes me weary of being physically affectionate with other friends as well. My T feels safe because I know that would never happen with her.

I understand the impulse to say "it will get better in the future." However, it hasn't gotten better so far. This is a need I've had all my life. It stems from not having a mom, and I've never gotten that need for safe, platonic touch met-- ever. I've gotten touch needs met in romantic relationships, but I really want to have the experience of getting that need met in a platonic way. i don't think safe, nurturing touch should be conditional on having a romantic partner. I think it's unfortunate that, in our culture, just putting your arm around someone or resting your head on someone seems to be limited to only 2 relationships-- parent/child and partner/partner. I think it's a fundamental human need.

If just wanted anyone to hold me, I could get that. The problem is finding someone who feels safe-- someone who I have a caring relationship with. For me, touch has to be connected to emotions. I am not okay with strangers touching me. I was not okay with T touching me for the first year of therapy. I have to really build and develop that trust. I do wish I had more friends who felt "safe" in that way-- but they don't. It isn't easy to find. In my group of female friends, I'm the only lesbian and when the girls drink, some of them try to flirt with me or try to kiss me or say they want to sleep with me. It's something straight/bi-curious girls have done my whole life--I'm a very femme lesbian and, for whatever reason, that seems to inspire a lot of sapphic curiousity. I HATE it. I am NOT interested and it makes me SO uncomfortable. In every other respect my friends are great-- but that prevents them from feeling physically "safe."

I also live in a very small community, where everyone pretty much knows everyone, so meeting new people that I connect with is more of a challenge. For that reason, my T keeps telling me that I just have to "wait it out" until I can move. However, I don't have a move scheduled. I do want to apply for a different job, but I have to pay my dues and hit some milestones before I can apply for the positions I really want, in the cities I really want. It actually makes me feel worse every time she tells me that my life will "start" after I move. I think that's a terrible way to look at things. I want to improve my life NOW.

[blur]

do you have any safe male friends who could fill this need? maybe that is something you wouldn't normally consider but could be an option.

[Leah123]

Maybe improving your life now means expanding your comfort zone: perhaps you need to stretch past what feels safe to what is likely safe, take some risks?

I don't mean to suggest that's easy or comfortable, but you're in a corner right now it sounds like. You want something and you want it now, so.... in the absence of people to perfectly fit your needs, maybe expanding your horizons is necessary.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Maybe improving your life now means expanding your comfort zone: perhaps you need to stretch past what feels safe to what is likely safe, take some risks?

I don't mean to suggest that's easy or comfortable, but you're in a corner right now it sounds like. You want something and you want it now, so.... in the absence of people to perfectly fit your needs, maybe expanding your horizons is necessary.

I'm willing to expand my comfort zone in terms of activities/behaviors/therapies. So, if you have those kinds of suggestions, I'd like to hear them.

However, I'm not willing to allow strangers or "unsafe" friends to touch me. Given my history with unwanted/abusive touch, that just isn't an option.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by blur

do you have any safe male friends who could fill this need? maybe that is something you wouldn't normally consider but could be an option.

Not in the city I currently live in. Up until recently, my best friend (a gay male) was living with me and I was fine with him touching me. I wouldn't really consider it "nurturing" or "repairatiive," but I had no problem with him touching me. Since he moved to take a job in another city, I don't have any other safe guy friends. I have two good guy friends but, in the past, they have both hit on me. They know now that I'm "really" a lesbian so it's never going to happen, but because they hit on me before, they don't feel physically safe.

[Leah123]

Well, let me clarify: you want a certain type of touch, but no one you know (safe) will give it, and you won't let anyone you don't know (unsafe) give it?

Where's the wiggle room? I think you have to create it.

What did you think about the reiki therapy idea? Establishing a relationship with a second practitioner that does bodywork? Wouldn't be instant, but would let you build in the direction you want?

When you ask for other ideas, do you mean like therapies or activities to help you feel more comfortable getting that touch?

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Well, let me clarify: you want a certain type of touch, but no one you know (safe) will give it, and you won't let anyone you don't know (unsafe) give it?

Where's the wiggle room? I think you have to create it.

What did you think about the reiki therapy idea? Establishing a relationship with a second practitioner that does bodywork? Wouldn't be instant, but would let you build in the direction you want?

I actually googled reiki and like the idea but I can't seem to find a practioner in my area. The closest I've found so far is an hour away, which isn't doable with my work schedule. I'll give it a little more googling though.