[Partless]

I have to stop making long posts about my own things in other people's threads, so noticed it half way through and started this one. Anyhow, dealing with manipulation is the one area I don't think therapy has helped me much. It helped me gain perspective and understanding but did not help me feel more sure of myself when deciding to take action so I chicken out. No, I'm being tough on myself, it's actually very hard.

My mom, who has narcissistic tendencies, is usually the source of so much pain and misery for me. Sometimes I think she can not, not be manipulative. Almost like wanting a dog not to be a dog. What complicates the matter is that she was chronically physically and emotionally abused as a child and a teenager. And that most often in life she feels like a victim (even when things are objectively quite different or when she is victimizing others, including her own kids, including my sister who is psychotic and has suicidal tendencies).

I either feel responsible for her or feel guilty about rejecting her or feel helpless and trapped or feel hated. I hated setting boundaries cause I knew she would interpret them as rejection or start pushing them but my therapist said I had to do it. I did it and things did not get better. I had thought if within the boundaries I'm caring and nice that she would accept that's who I am. But right now I feel like the boundaries, instead of allowing me to maintain my sanity, are chocking me to death! I feel frozen. I've lost my spontaneity. I hate setting rules, I hate saying no but I feel like a guard dog, I relax a bit and my boundaries are intruded upon, not once but repeatedly. I fee like a teacher with a rowdy student. I'm so tempted to scream at the kid instead of kindly saying the same gentle reminders over and over and over and over. But I can't cause she is my mom and it's not respectful or caring. But I get so fed up repeating the same thing to her: "No I said I can't come by more than once a week, but if you want to see me, you have to come by and also let me know ahead of time. " But same *******ed conversation over and over and over and over. A lot of things seem to be about power with her.

I had a bad past, she would swear at me, I would swear back, she'd say "you should just die, I wish you were never born," etc. I both hated and loved her, and I also often felt sorry for her. As I got older, I felt like just escaping from it all and I was not caring towards her, I just couldn't take it. When I went for therapy, I found it very challenging to address my issues with my parents. My dad had not been there for her emotionally, he was stingy, he was older and they never had any real romance, he did not understand her or treat her well (though never hit her or emotionally abuse her). He was there in presence but not emotionally, like a robot. I felt like taking over, even when I was a child. I wanted to make her happy. She often complained about dad to me as well. But it was I who ended up seeing so many therapists and going on so many medications over the years. She only tried meds for a few months and stopped. She did not like how they changed her.

My therapists have said that I am not my mom's parents or husband. I tell them our cultural background and being raised in South and so on and they say it doesn't matter, this is still wrong. I say I know but how can I get out of this thing, it's tearing me apart! What infuriates me is that she feels so powerless that a lot of times she seems to want to use me to get through to other people, including my dad. I never knew why my dad hated me so much as a kid but I learned, in part, it was because I had become my mom's spokesperson somehow. Or she would bug me, and I would get depressed and then she would tell my dad, Oh our son is depressed so let's go to a movie! Sometimes I just want o shake her and say, "Don't you understand that dad was not understanding or loving towards me either? Why the hell did you put me in that situation, I was your kid! How would you have liked it if I used you to get through to dad? I know you were hurt badly but why do I have to pay the price? You gave birth to me and raised me but I'm not your slave! Please don't make this harder for me than it is."

Okay I'll stop, this is getting long, but this is agonizing for me, I appreciate any similar experiences or suggestions you can share. Okay if nothing too, I think even my therapists have given up on me. I so wish my mom was never victimized and was strong. I would have much easier time to tell her no or to say leave me alone or stop it!

[HazelGirl]

It sounds like you want something from her she isn't willing to give, and a part of therapy is coming to terms with the fact that she will never be the loving parent you want. Boundaries won't "fix" her, they will protect you from further abuse. Yes, they're like a guard dog. And no, she won't change unless she realizes she is wrong. Boundaries aren't about changing the other person, they're about distancing yourself and protecting yourself.

[Partless]

Hazelgirl, you're absolutely right, I want something from her, I want her to change and be more loving and more understanding and also get help. She is actually quite consistent in how she behaves. I've tried everything to make her change. I think the idea that she is the way she is and it won't change, that idea was too much for me to accept. So I started to blame myself, about my childhood and I was mean to her. I tried to change my way and become more respectful and kind and thought as a result she is going to realize that way of acting and boundary intrusion is wrong and that she will change too but it has not happened.

I don't think she does a lot of those hurtful things intentionally, I think a very strong urge comes over her and overwhelms her and she does what she can to deal with it. Unfortunately she has learned that emotional blackmail and all kinds of manipulations work well enough so she uses them. I can not live with myself if I break contact. I tried that before and guilt was too much. I so wish she'd go for therapy or take pills. Often times the only way she changes is if she tries everything and fails and then goes for it. And these other things including manipulating me. It doesn't matter that I'm her kid. It didn't matter when I was an actual kid either. It is easy to feel you don't exist, in those situations. She is drowning. I'm a random tree branch. If not grab me, another. I think I meant something to her. I spent so much of my time preoccupied with her and her problems. Which is pretty stupid, given that most of them I could not have fixed even if I was in a position I could have offered her real help.

Thanks.

[HazelGirl]

Yes, your reactions are totally normal for an abused child. They feel like they are in control of the world, so if someone is treating them badly, it's their fault. And if they change, they can change the abuser. Unfortunately, abusers don't abuse because their children have something wrong with the child. They abuse because there is something wrong with the abuser. And a child's behavior isn't going to change that. It's incredibly painful and difficult to accept that you will never be able to change your mother's behaviors. The best you can do is protect yourself from her. If you can't cut contact, that's fine. Maybe you will be strong enough later on. But for now, protect yourself with those boundaries.