[refika]

My issue is similar to what someone else posted in another thread about violating T's boundaries.

Not long after I first started working with T, I googled him and found T's dissertation, which mentioned his family by name (children, spouse, key people, etc). Through googling, his public info on his professional website, and just putting 2+2 together, I figured out/found out a lot of other stuff about T (where he lives, his birthdate, where he was raised, etc). T and I talked about my "snooping" as he calls it into his personal life. He found out when I told him what I had done because the guilt got too much for me to bear. T was angry with me (and rightfully so) and we talked about it.

We still talk about it once in a blue moon, and I brought it up again a month or so ago. T's response was "if you keep snooping, eventually you'll find out everything about me and you'll stop". I thought that was true...until...

I found my T's teenage kid's twitter page. It's totally public, and I found it by googling their name. Since then, I've been checking it regularly and this has been going on for a month or two, maybe more. I also read all the old tweets T's kid posted and found out quite a bit about T, such as his relationship with his kid, pictures of the kid and T, pictures of T's other child, etc.

Well, I've been struggling for a few weeks now about whether or not to tell T. I decided I wasn't going to say anything because I didn't want to hurt T, didn't want to risk our relationship and have T terminate me, and I felt it would serve no purpose. I know "why" I do it, I just have to stop "snooping".

Still, I'm struggling with whether or not I tell T I found his kids twitter page. Recently, T went on vacation. When I asked him before his break if he was going away or not, T was vague saying "I'll be around". Today was my first session after a week and a half break. I asked T how his vacation was and if he went anywhere. I KNOW he went away, and where he went, because his kid talked about it on their twitter page. T wouldn't answer me and instead asked "why are you asking, is this chat time over coffee or therapy"? His response kind of annoyed me, but I understandable.

Well, tonight I looked at the kid's twitter page again, and they posted something VERY personal and serious about their mom (T's wife). I had a range of emotions in response to what I read, and through it all, it made me realize WHY T's are so private about their personal lives.

The problem is now I feel absolutely HORRIBLE for knowing what I know, and wish there were some way I can NOT know what I know. Knowing what I know about T's personal life DOES affect my therapy, and makes it that much more difficult.

That brings me to my dilemma - do I tell T what I know (that he doesn't know I know)? Do I just keep quiet and try to STOP looking at the kid's twitter page? Do I tell T and hopefully have him help me stop looking at the kid's twitter page?

The problem is I don't know if I AM able to STOP. I do all this "snooping" because I want to feel closer to T. We talked about that before. It ties in with my transference for him, how I feel about him, how I wish I was his wife instead of the wife he has, how I wish I was his daughter, how I WANT to be his friend. I know WHY I do all the "snooping". The problem is I can't stop. The only way I could stop is if T's kid made their twitter page completely private. Then there would be NOTHING for me to read.

So I just don't know what to do. Part of me wants to tell T to tell his kid to lock their Twitter page. I mean they ARE a teenager, and IMO there ARE privacy and safety issues. I'm not even sure if T or the kid knows the twitter page is public. Another part of me is saying that's T's business with HIS kid, and to butt out.

Through it all, I just feel extremely horrible, really really guilty, and like a real bad person knowing I violated T's privacy, his kid's privacy, and have significantly affected my therapy.

This really stinks!

[feralkittymom]

Yup, it stinks. As you realize, this is your problem and not anyone else's responsibility to keep you from repeating this behavior. Since you've already brought it up and it didn't stop the behavior (and I don't think it would), you can choose to bring up the issue, with or without the particulars, again. You could talk about the urge being irresistible, your desire to be close to him, that you realize it isn't about him but about your own needs. Ask him how you can address these needs in yourself.

I'm a bit puzzled by his apparent change in perspective: you said he was angry the first time, but then his statement about finding out everything doesn't seem angry to me. His more recent reaction sounds sharp. He sounds stressed, probably because of whatever is happening at home, so I wouldn't be confident that he would react therapeutically to a confession that you're continuing to snoop. There just seems to be some ambivalence about his view.

Ultimately, talking about the need, rather than about past actions, is what will help you to resist the behavior.

[CantExplain]

If a T won't reveal a simple thing like whether he went away on holiday, then he must accept some of the responsibility for what happened.

Smash the blank slate!

[Bill3]

If a T won't reveal a simple thing like whether he went away on holiday, then he must accept some of the responsibility for what happened.

The T was vague with a client whose high level of interest in him has been a subject of discussion in therapy. He could well have viewed telling her anything more as being anti-therapeutic.

Nothing is bad or good, only our thinking makes it so....... Or something like that.

[ThisWayOut]

I think there comes a time where you need to take personal responsibility in stopping the behavior. Personally, I would probably bring up the fact that a problem behavior was still very much an issue, and take it from there. Knowing why we do something often does very little to inhibit the behavior until we can successfully satisfy that need in another way. While I don't much care to snoop into my t's lives, I do have other problem behaviors that have caused barriers in therapy. I have noted to my t's that I have all this insight, but it's not changing things (except maybe adding a layer of guilt at times). Most recent previous t reminded me that I was getting something out of the behavior that I have not been able to get elsewhere. We focused on what it gets me, and trying to find other ways to achieve the same result. While it may be trickier to get your "snooping" needs met (feeling closer to t, being more a part of his life), you could work on meeting the need of being included in caring and supportive relationships outside of therapy. Often times, therapy and the therapeutic relationship fills a need we have in the rest of our lives. Working on feeling safe, loved, and included in other parts of your life might help curb the behavior of snooping. Definitely something I would bring up with t, even if you don't bring up the specifics unless he asks.
I think it's also going to take a concerted effort on your end to consciously decide on stopping the behavior. Maybe you and t could come up with a list of things to do instead?
it's really hard to change a behavior that fills such a potent need in our lives, but it can be done.
Good luck.

[glitterrosez89]

Instead of forbidding clients from looking up information like this, I think it would make more sense to explore why it's bad for the client to do so and work on getting to a point where the client naturally stops the behavior. Forbidding someone from looking up publicly available information is just silly in my opinion. That doesn't mean it's a behavior that is healthy for the client to continue. Just like it would be a bad idea for a therapist to *forbid* a client with a food addiction from binge eating because you can't really force adults not to eat food when it's their legal right to do so. It would be better to work on ways to stop the behavior from a well-being standpoint.

[UnderRugSwept]

Originally Posted by glitterrosez89

Instead of forbidding clients from looking up information like this, I think it would make more sense to explore why it's bad for the client to do so and work on getting to a point where the client naturally stops the behavior. Forbidding someone from looking up publicly available information is just silly in my opinion. That doesn't mean it's a behavior that is healthy for the client to continue. Just like it would be a bad idea for a therapist to *forbid* a client with a food addiction from binge eating because you can't really force adults not to eat food when it's their legal right to do so. It would be better to work on ways to stop the behavior from a well-being standpoint.

Exactly this.

[shakespeare47]

My personal opinion (take it or leave it), is that you should find a new T. You know too much about the guy. Do you ever wonder if you ruined a pretty good relationship by snooping? and you're not alone... I've done some things to my T that I'm not proud of. But, I also have a lot of respect for him, because of the way he handled himself.

[precaryous]

I wouldn't tell T- especially since you are stalking his kid's twitter page. If you do, you realize there will be consequences.

Kids are out of bounds, IMO. Can you stop?

[refika]

Thank you all for your responses, they are very helpful.

I know I'm treading on thin ice here and fear that it may be just a matter of time before I do something that really crosses the line and gets me in serious trouble. I'm hoping I can stop before that happens, or at least restrain myself enough.

The frustrating part is I KNOW why I do what I do, and right now, I don't see a solution around it. I like the idea of bringing the subject up vaguely to T, talking about the need and desire while leaving out the details. I agree that I have to WANT to stop and like breaking any other addiction or negative behavior, that's the hardest part - the want.

I have thought about finding another T. I also thought about going to another T just for help with this problem and keep going to my T for everything else. The issue there is just the time AND money for another T.

As for the blank slate in therapy, I felt like many of you did - where it's a horrible controlling tool that must be removed. Then when I started finding out things about my T that I wouldn't have found out otherwise, I realized how that affected my therapy and the relationship with T. It made me realize the benefit and importance of the blank slate. I don't like the blank slate, BUT it IS necessary for therapy and healing to occur.

[NowhereUSA]

i'm with glitterrose on this one. just demanding you stop is ineffective. i still stand by my statement that dictating what one does on the internet, outside of it being illegal, is at the end of the day, silly.

however, this behavior is harmful to you and your therapeutic relationship. i feel like your t doesn't know how to handle the modern age a bit (i see this a lot with parents of teenagers - not everyone obviously, but there's a section of the population that hasn't trained their children not to share all the things on the internet - i mean, sharing vacay info? that's just bad security to begin with since that's a great way to let people know when to rob your place. i never post vacay pics until we're home and no status updates that indicate i am anywhere else).

i personally would seek out a new t. his response is to forbid you (useless) and you clearly feel a need to do this (which needs to be addressed and it really isn't). if you could resolve the emotions that feed this compulsion, then you may find the compulsion lessened.

basically - you didn't do anything *morally* wrong, but you are doing something harmful to yourself because you're reinforcing certain harmful emotions/habits. in dbt we talk about urge surfing. when you feel the need to do something, distract. is this something you tend to do when you're alone and quiet? well then maybe you need to go find other people or go for a walk or something like that.

EDITED TO ADD: i don't know that i entirely agree that a t needs to be a blank slate. idk. my t is very open and let's me ask him all sorts of personal questions. i know what town he lives in, i know about his family. i know about his last vacation and his pets. i know about his hobbies and what books/shows he watches. all of that through regular conversation we've had a long term relationship so it's not like i found that out in a day or it interfered with therapy. i've found it helpful to see him as himself as best i can. obviously i don't know-know him, but it's helped me trust him.

[Favorite Jeans]

Smash the slate indeed! I don't necessarily agree that T bears some reponsibility for this but I'm definitely getting all kinds of t-shirt and bumper sticker ideas.

Refika, I totally get your indecision about whether to tell T. I wonder if it would be fair or helpful to ask your T to process his feelings about your snooping on his own time. FKM's observation that his reaction to this issue has been inconsistent and not necessarily therapeutic is kind of key here.

[stopdog]

I don't see this as abig deal. Imdon't think op did anything to the therapist and I do not think telling the therapist would help. Perhaps discussing the great desire etc might help

[shakespeare47]

My own t made me uncomfortable at times by revealing more than I thought necessary.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by glitterrosez89

Instead of forbidding clients from looking up information like this, I think it would make more sense to explore why it's bad for the client to do so and work on getting to a point where the client naturally stops the behavior. Forbidding someone from looking up publicly available information is just silly in my opinion. That doesn't mean it's a behavior that is healthy for the client to continue. Just like it would be a bad idea for a therapist to *forbid* a client with a food addiction from binge eating because you can't really force adults not to eat food when it's their legal right to do so. It would be better to work on ways to stop the behavior from a well-being standpoint.

Agreed--but I don't see where the OP's T has tried to forbid her. It would be helpful to know what sort of things he said the first time that the OP characterized as "angry."

[anilam]

Originally Posted by refika

...

As for the blank slate in therapy, I felt like many of you did - where it's a horrible controlling tool that must be removed. Then when I started finding out things about my T that I wouldn't have found out otherwise, I realized how that affected my therapy and the relationship with T. It made me realize the benefit and importance of the blank slate. I don't like the blank slate, BUT it IS necessary for therapy and healing to occur.

I disagree, my T's not blank slate. I do have to ask about it and he then decides what/if he wants to share that info with me. I would not work with a true blank slate T.
You, however, are in a different position, you know too much and yes I agree that it could be detrimental for therapy too. Esp since your T doesn't know you know and you "test" him asking him about info you already know.
IDK, what to say... it's really tricky situation to be in. I, however, doubt that your therapy could be effective if you continue this:/

[tealBumblebee]

Originally Posted by anilam

...You, however, are in a different position, you know too much and yes I agree that it could be detrimental for therapy too. Esp since your T doesn't know you know and you "test" him asking him about info you already know...I, however, doubt that your therapy could be effective if you continue this:/

I agree with anilam here. Like Ani, my T is not blank slate but in some cases, like yours, it proves to be the most effective. This profile has become pandora's box for you. I mean, I understand the googling thing and have done it myself, but I also think that it's maybe not an invasion of privacy per say as much as it pushes on boundaries. For instance, if I left my diary out on the table - it shouldn't be an open invitation for someone to read it. Regardless of if I was in a rush and left it there accidentally, or that's just where I wanted to put it (technically open and available for people to see), it doesn't give someone a 'pass' to read it because it's not theirs and they have not been invited to read it, specifically when I've asked them not to. In your case, the T has already stated that they do not appreciate the 'snooping' and you are having a hard time dealing with the compulsive nature of it. I honestly think that if you were to tell T you snooped and know this information about his wife that it will not end well. I like your idea of seeing another T about this issue but I get why that would be difficult. What if you tried writing down everything you want to say to him about the situation, in a letter, maybe read it to a safe friend to get it out, and then burn it. Wash your hands of the situation so to speak. Then, whenever you felt like snooping, think back to how much 'discord' it caused last time and do what you need to do (completely shut down the computer if you need to) to try to prevent it from happening again. If talking to someone, or trying a little self cleansing doesn't help you may have no choice but to tell but again, the consequences are inevitable. I'm sorry you're struggling though. None of this makes you a bad person or any less than anyone else, we all do things we could look back on and perhaps wish to redo. It's okay, it makes you human. Now, you're at a crossroads and the focus is just really which path to take from here.

[lilypup]

I don't want to know much if anything about my T. When I am there I want to talk about ME. I like her well enough, and she is helping to resolve issues as they come up, and that's about it.
I don't get T's. I think if I were one, I would do everything I could to keep my business off the internet. Kids need to understand this too.
I would definitely think about switching T's. There's too much action in this relationship other than therapy.

[Lauliza]

This is a tricky situation and from what you've said about his reactions so far, I would either bring it up in a roundabout, vague way, not tell him and continue with him, or not tell him and find a new T.

I have a definite problem with Ts who post information online, on public forums and get angry at clients for "snooping". To call it snooping is a bit naive in my opinion. Real snooping is paying for personal info or guessing a password to get into their email. Twittier and other sites exist to be seen, otherwise they'd serve no purpose. Parents with kids on social media need to monitor what they are sharing, whether they are a t or not. And acting like it is only a problem if their clients see this stuff sounds condescending to me. Its becoming harder for Ts to remain blank slates and it sounds like some of them don't like it.

I understand the diary analogy to a point, but there is a key difference: you view
the internet from a personal device of your own- your PC, phone,iPad, or whatever. The
diary is a physical object that belongs to someone else, the diary is not yours to pick up
and look at. But if this info in the diary was also written on an online blog, then it's
perfectly ok to read it.

OP, you did nothing wrong, but i know it feels wrong to you, and the way your t reacted only makes you feel worse. His anger troubles me, as perhaps impulse control and obsessing are ussues he could be helping you with. But instead he gets angry and makes it about him, as if hes a victim. He's not a victim and neither is his kid. The worst thing about your actions is that they are upsetting to you and causing so much guilt.

Someone should alert your T that his kid is posting so much personal information, but I don't know that it should be you. You could I suppose if you say you happened to come across it, but since your T knows you've already seen things, he likely won't buy it.

[msxyz]

I guess I will never understand why publicly available information is supposed to be treated as if it was private by therapy clients. Instead of trying to control their clients they should control what actually is within their control, namely the amount of private information that can be found on-line by anyone.

[learning1]

I always managed to avoid googling my t's while in therapy with them because, even when I was extremely curious, I was afraid of the consequences of possibly letting slip that I knew something about them that I wouldn't have known otherwise. I wonder if you could use the difficult situation you've stumbled into to help motivate you to stop looking at his kids' Twitter page. I'm sure that alone won't be enough; you'll have to make a real effort to get involved with something else (maybe even posting here about your efforts to resist if needed?). But maybe it would help if you remind yourself about the worst feelings you've had about what you found at times when you're tempted to snoop.

I think an ideal t would
-help you deal with your addiction in the way glitter suggested
-take responsibility for teaching his kid to protect his/her privacy, though maybe that would be complicated if the kid wants to make the info public to his/her friends and not have to be burdened by the needs of his/her Dad's job

BUT, I definitely wouldn't count on a T responding ideally. Especially when it comes to their kid, and especially when it comes to a difficult personal issue for them that shouldn't be coming up in their work context (i.e. your therapy). You know your t better than we do, so you know best; but, in general it wouldn't seem surprising me if a t either did or didn't choose to terminate a client for something like that. I don't have any experience to base that on; it just makes sense to me that those things might be hurtful to the t in a way that makes him feel he can't be a good therapist for the client anymore.

I think that in real life, what you're doing would be pretty unacceptable, though I think you know that. For example, if you had an acquaintance or coworker you really admired but who wasn't interested in being friends with you, and you kept searching for information about them, it wouldn't be very ethically considerate or socially acceptable. (Not illegal, of course, since the information is public.)

But, since it's therapy, I think ideally ethics are suspended a bit, if the therapist can handle dealing with his privacy being trampled a bit for the sake of dealing with a client therapeutically. On the other hand, therapists have their needs too, and he might realize if he's got personal problems that you've discovered, that he can't personally handle his own needs as well as your in a therapeutic way right now.

Sorry, I'm repeating myself I guess.

I think you're in a difficult situation since if you're not open with your t about what you found, I'm sure you realize it could slip out accidentally and cause bigger problems, but maybe it's better not to be too open about it immediately, I don't know. I wonder if starting to try different t's once a month or something (skipping your current t for that session so you can afford it) would be a way to step toward being prepared just in case things don't go well.

[refika]

I've decided that for the time being, I'm not going to say anything. As much as I want to be honest with T about this, it would only make matters worse, and especially since T is dealing with personal issues about his wife. I feel like I'm a difficult enough client as it is, that I don't need to add more to T's plate while he's still going through these personal issues and just came back from a vacation.

BTW, what I just wrote is an ideal example of why I feel T's need to keep their personal issues from clients. In this case, I'm controlling my own therapy and compromising my own needs because of my T's feelings. (but that's another topic).

The hardest part is that I WANT T to know how public his kid's profile is. I mean, T seemed genuinely surprised when I first told him what I found out about him, and I mentioned to him that it's all public information and someone with good googling skills can find it (which is what I did). My thinking is that if "I" was able to find out all this stuff, and I consider myself somewhat grounded (in that I KNOW I won't start stalking T at his house or his kids, or send him b-day cards), what if he happens to get a client down the line who is not as stable as me and finds all this stuff? I know, that's not my problem...but just another example of WHY T's need to keep a blank slate sometimes.

As much as it sounds like the best option to find another T, it's just not a possibility for me. It took me a year and a half to even start trusting this T in the slightest, and still I don't trust him (ha, the irony)! I can't even think about starting over with another T. If I didn't see this T, I know wouldn't see anyone because of my intense inability to trust and open up to people in person.

What I did decide to do is really really try to resist the temptation to look at the kid's profile, and just continue to examine my motives behind it. So far, I'm doing good today. I resisted the urge several times...I keep thinking about how horrible I feel, and how worse I'll feel IF T ever finds out and IF he terminates me over it. I know the risks of keeping a secret are pretty steep, but for the time being, it's a risk I'm willing to take.

In the meantime, I'm going to ask T to help me with my motives for wanting to know more about him, and tell him in a vague way that I feel the compulsion to keep trying to find things out about him. Hopefully, that will open the conversation for me to explore and discuss my motives (which I know what they are), and hopefully T can help me either resolve that need, or find a healthier, safer, outlet for it.

It's funny, (in a sarcastic way), the main problem is that I'm so lonely, and longing for a relationship with someone, a boyfriend/girlfriend, that to me, I WANT T to fill that role. We talked about it some off and on (damn transference!) and I KNOW that's the motives behind all of this crap. I know if I had someone else who was the "object of my affection", I wouldn't give too hoots about what T does when I'm not in session, where he goes on vacation, or what's going on with him. I know that for a fact because about a year ago when I "did" have someone who was "kind of" the object of my affection (still unavailable as a relationship partner, but kind of a friend who I chatted with frequently and knew a lot about), I didn't care about T's personal info. This all started when that other person and I fell out of touch with each other, due to external issues. T kind of filled that role.

I know I could hop on dating sites and start finding someone...believe me I tried that a few months ago...the truth is I'm done with dating sites for a while if forever (bad, long history there from about 10 years ago that I am still working on getting past). I like to think of myself a "somewhat" social. I live near a sibling who is close in age to me, I work in a job where I interact with people all day long, I have hobbies where I get to hang out with people who share the same interests...but I haven't made any "close" friends yet.

I know it's probably not the right time in my life for that, and when the time is right, it will happen, but in the meantime I'm tired of waiting and I'm tired of this longing for the "Right" person, hence T filling the shoes perfectly, but being so "off limits".

UGH, it really is so frustrating and maddening. Sorry for the long rambling post....I guess I just had so much to get off my chest...

[stopdog]

Shouldn't a client control their own therapy? I don't understand that part of what you said.

[rainbow8]

I haven't been reading other threads lately, due to my H's illness, but I very much wanted to post in the other thread about looking up Ts online, and in yours. I didn't read all the posts, but I identify very, very much with the compulsion to research T, and the difficulty in stopping.

I have threads in the past about driving by my T's house. I told my T that I did this, and while she wasn't happy, we discussed it, and she sort of understands. I'm not sure I understand. Well, I think I understand it's her boundary that I crossed, and it was wrong, but I wish she didn't have that boundary. Anyway, more to the point is looking up her kids on FB and other stuff.

I always research my Ts. I want to KNOW, and somehow I haven't been able to totally stop doing it. When I googled my T, and also looked up her family, I told her. I felt very guilty because I found out her parents' birthdates, death, and other information. I wish I hadn't done it, but I felt like I didn't have any control, like with any other addiction.

My T didn't used to be on FB but her H was. Her kids were also. I always felt WORSE after I looked, but I couldn't stop. I googled her and her H and found a few things that were new each time. My T told me it wasn't good for me to do that, but she tried to make light of the googling by asking me what I found. I was totally embarrassed!! I also saw some youtubes with her kids.

I told her some months ago that I was not going to do it again, but I did. I try very hard not to do it, though. It doesn't help me feel close to her. She always said I could ask her about her, and that what she didn't like was the secrecy, that I was doing it sneakily! Yet she doesn't want to take time out of my session to talk about her. It is VERY difficult because I feel so close to her, especially now, but I can't know much about her life. I still have that addiction to find out more, to know what makes her tick, to get information! It's very hard not to pursue it but I keep trying to keep away from FB.

I understand your not wanting to tell your T, but at the same time wanting help for the compulsion. I don't know what the answer is. Knowing something personal like you do is difficult. I didn't find anything like that about my T. If I had discovered her divorce online, I would have told her. I guessed from how she acted that she was getting divorced, and I asked her directly. It's hard when you find information that your T doesn't know you know. I identify with your struggles about this.

I'm rambling and repeating myself, I know. I'm tired, but wanted you to know that I understand. People can say "just stop. It's wrong" but I know it's not that easy. Believe me, I know what you're going through.