[PeeJay]

I've been reading as many therapy books as I can lately.

Irvin Yalom's have been particularly engaging. He seems arrogant and yet, I buy the books because he is so honest. SO honest.

I read Love's Executioner, The Gift of Therapy, and Momma and the Meaning of Life.

Reading these have helped me to open up more with my own therapist.

Have you read his books? What do you think?

[justdesserts]

I love Irvin Yalom. He's my favorite therapist author to read, too.

[Soccer mom]

These two really helped me realize why I am the way I am:

Running on Empty: Childhood Emotional Neglect
Emotionally Distant Mother: From isolation to secure attachment

[stopdog]

I despise Yalom. I found Hermann to be less awful and Susan Clancy. I read some Maruda but she was a little smug (no where near as bad as Yalom). A lot of people like Brene Brown. I found her not despicable but not especially compelling.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I despise Yalom. .

I found Yalom incredibly arrogant. The title story, Love's Executioner belittles a patient who the reader learns late in the story suffers the aftermath of an extreme ethical violation from a former therapist. It seems Yalom wants the reader to concur in his entertainment from her pathetic hilariousness. Yalom gives derisive reviews about females whose appearances aren't sufficiently beautiful to please his male esthetic.

Beyond that, I wouldn't want a doctor whose treatment included sizing me up as potential literary fodder. And even if the patient consents as a book subject, there's that power dynamic thingy again.

From the Amazon reviews, I'm in the minority though. Most readers revere this guy.

[Petra5ed]

I read loves executioner and thought it was pretty entertaining. It left me feeling a bit sad though, since not all clients seemed to have a happy ending and progress was never earth shattering. The story of the woman obsessed with her first therapist reminded me of myself and made me wonder what I'm running from , I think that was the most helpful and interesting part. The part where he hates on the fat woman made me a bit sad. I don't dispise and loathe anyone like that. I felt bad for her, and I wondered what if anything my therapist might hate about me. I could think of no shortage of possibilities.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by missbella

I found Yalom incredibly arrogant. The title story, Love's Executioner belittles a patient who the reader learns late in the story suffers the aftermath of an extreme ethical violation from a former therapist. It seems Yalom wants the reader to concur in his entertainment from her pathetic hilariousness. Yalom gives derisive reviews about females whose appearances aren't sufficiently beautiful to please his male esthetic.

Beyond that, I wouldn't want a doctor whose treatment included sizing me up as potential literary fodder. And even if the patient consents as a book subject, there's that power dynamic thingy again.

From the Amazon reviews, I'm in the minority though. Most readers revere this guy.

I'm reading him for school (specifically group therapy) and his theories are the standard for group therapy. But like you, from some of the other things he's written and said, he is a pompous jerk.

[Partless]

I read most of When Nietzsche Wept (the book is pretty boring in some parts so skimmed) and did not like it. I thought Yalom was being presumptuous and the novel offered a superficial treatment of the subject. I think if you are going to imagine being two major intellectual figures of past (founder of psychoanalysis giving psychotherapy to a great philosopher of previous century), you damn better know what you are doing, out of respect to these people and their intelligence and contributions to the world. But he didn't. It seemed more about Yalom trying to make himself feel important and boost his own ego, to have thought of such a thing to write about it in a way that he found satisfying, and not a book that showed real understanding or humility and respect for the subject matter and people involved.

I think he is a smart guy and obviously he has made much contributions to various aspects of psychotherapy, like existential psychotherapy and group psychotherapy, but I, somewhat like Missbella, find myself in the minority of people who do not worship him, and find his arrogance distracting and irritating.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I'm reading him for school (specifically group therapy) and his theories are the standard for group therapy. But like you, from some of the other things he's written and said, he is a pompous jerk.

I understand his writings on group therapy are well-respected. Did you find him specifically insightful in that realm?

[missbella]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

The story of the woman obsessed with her first therapist reminded me of myself and made me wonder what I'm running from.

**Trigger alert**
The woman was obsessed with her first therapist after he seduced her. Yalom goes out of his way to describe the patient's unattractive appearance and dress, how unlikely this woman would be anyone's lover. I thought the chapter was manipulated so the reader might laugh at this woman, and don't find ethical violation an hilarious subject. That I'm a woman of a certain age myself, I don't appreciate that derision at my cohort either.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by missbella

**Trigger alert**
The woman was obsessed with her first therapist after he seduced her. Yalom goes out of his way to describe the patient's unattractive appearance and dress, how unlikely this woman would be anyone's lover. I thought the chapter was manipulated so the reader might laugh at this woman, and don't find ethical violation an hilarious subject. That I'm a woman of a certain age myself, I don't appreciate that derision at my cohort either.

He's definitely highly critical of women's looks, but I appreciate his candor. I'd rather know the truth than some sugar coated version. I didn't think he described the obsessed woman as unattractive but rather just not making any efforts for him. He seemed to at least compliment her figure, but made it sound like she was dressed like a depressed person in track suits all the time.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

... but made it sound like she was dressed like a depressed person in track suits all the time.

"Everything I saw in my first glance--her wrinkled seventy-year-old face with that senile chin tremor, her thinning, bleached, unkempt yellow hair, her emaciated blue-veined hands--told me she had to be mistaken, that she could not be in love. How could love ever choose to ravage that frail, tottering old body, or house itself in that shapeless polyester jogging suit?"

This is Yalom's opening description of his patient who had been sexually exploited by her therapist.

[Partless]

Is there another issue involved too? I think it came up in my Dr Phil thread, about whether such shows are inherently exploitative. I wonder if the same can be said about therapists using the stories of their clients in their books written for the general population. Perhaps it depends on how they are treated but thinking back to my own therapists, I don't think anything they write about me is going to make me happy and I will feel objectified in some way. I don't want to be used in a pop psychology book. I think I would mind it much less (depends I guess) if parts of my treatment were used in some article written for medical journals though. Then again, descriptions such as the one above will almost never appear there.

[Wren_]

I read a number of yaloms books after joining PC and I think the impact was more destructive than helpful as far as my own therapy

Originally Posted by missbella

How could love ever choose to ravage that frail, tottering old body, or house itself in that shapeless polyester jogging suit?"

This is Yalom's opening description of his patient who had been sexually exploited by her therapist.

Well about the looks, it's very off-putting, but even so, i'd forgive him for being honest about his superficiality. But the love? Why is he associating her looks with the capacity to be loved? I guess the context is missing but that seems so judgmental for anyone, let alone a therapist, to be thinking that.

Lately I've been noticing these older couples in the neighborhood walking together. Holding hands, smiling and laughing together, strolling about the city and being active. It is so endearing. It brought tears to my eyes on more than one occasion. And more recently, I've felt envious of them (because I see that as something ill never have).

What does being frail and wearing jogging suits have to do with being loved? What do you mean by he seduced her?

[Freewilled]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I felt bad for her, and I wondered what if anything my therapist might hate about me. I could think of no shortage of possibilities.

What about all the things we don't like about our Ts? cause God knows they aren't perfect! I've called my T presumptuous before (because he was being so) and I've disliked other things from afar. I figure he probably really hates some things about me, but it goes both ways

And ole Irvin doesn't appear to be all that good lookin to me...

[missbella]

The "unlovable" woman's obsessive distress stemmed from a month-long relationship with a much younger therapist 8 years prior. Most consider this an extremely serious ethical violation, and yet I think Yalom treats the woman as subject of amusement.

I think books like this very much parallel issues we can discussed with Dr. Phil. In addition to perhaps seeing oneself in print, Yalom treats these patients with a dual agenda.

He's honest about his repulsion with readers, but I bet there's been no such communication with patients. I'm closing in on social security age, and I can't express the contempt I have for a man in the compassion business who can't seem to see beyond a 70-year-old woman's wrinkled skin.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by missbella

I understand his writings on group therapy are well-respected. Did you find him specifically insightful in that realm?

Yes, I'm in the class now so am still reading. What I've read so far is very different from other things he's written. Extremely respectful (even affectionate) of the clients and enthusiastic of the process in general. His descriptions are still very colorful and a bit judgemental, but not as mean spirited as some of the other things he's written. . He steps back and lets the group members guide discussion most of the time once a sfructure has been established. I think group therapy is his expertise. He has excellent insight into interpersonal dynamics and how group members can really help each other - often more so than the therapist.

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by missbella

"Everything I saw in my first glance--her wrinkled seventy-year-old face with that senile chin tremor, her thinning, bleached, unkempt yellow hair, her emaciated blue-veined hands--told me she had to be mistaken, that she could not be in love. How could love ever choose to ravage that frail, tottering old body, or house itself in that shapeless polyester jogging suit?"

This is Yalom's opening description of his patient who had been sexually exploited by her therapist.

I've not read Yalom, but now I want to. That paragraph sounds to me like a description of her apparent lack of love for herself, rather than the impossibility of anyone loving her.

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[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by missbella

"Everything I saw in my first glance--her wrinkled seventy-year-old face with that senile chin tremor, her thinning, bleached, unkempt yellow hair, her emaciated blue-veined hands--told me she had to be mistaken, that she could not be in love. How could love ever choose to ravage that frail, tottering old body, or house itself in that shapeless polyester jogging suit?"

This is Yalom's opening description of his patient who had been sexually exploited by her therapist.

Ouch! For some reason I guess this seemed softened when he described her as a ballerina. When I originally read it my feeling was he was unconsciously angry that she was not in love with him, and more so, that she was wearing these shapeless track suits as opposed to trying to seduce him with her ballerina figure. He seemed perplexed she would be so smitten by this "gay" therapist and show up like a slob to therapy and generally not care about him nearly at all. Looking at that once again, yeah he seems highly critical of her, but my personal take was it was his own anger she didn't seem to love him whereas his other clients all did. Now, the fat woman he really trashed. I think he even went so far as to admit he wouldn't hug her because he found her so repulsive, while he hugged his other clients. So the guys a pig and brings sex into everything, I'm not shocked except that he actually put it all out there for the public to read and criticize!

[StressedMess]

Yet another reason to not hug my T, she might be repulsed by my fat and get physically ill if I touch her with it.

This writer will not be occupying space on any of my bookshelves.

[feralkittymom]

Cannot abide his ego and air of entitlement.

[Willowleaf]

I read the flock the other day and really identified with it. I also like schpenhausers porcupine.

[JustShakey]

The skinny girl would like to randomly chime in just to say that fat people give the best hugs - warm and soft and cuddly. If Yalom is too disgusted by the fat woman to hug her, then he needs to get over himself. Just sayin'

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[StressedMess]

The fat woman would love to hug JustShakey right now, because she's a peach! You doing all right lady?

You all might have noticed a hot-button topic of mine. Fat shaming or discrimination against overweight people is one of the few socially accepted forms of discrimination these days, well, and smokers. Medical professionals, service providers (massage therapists or hair stylists/nail techs) HR and other hiring authorities, salespeople and even total strangers always have a biased and nasty comment.

Trust me, I get that you find me abhorrent, don't really want to touch me, have me be the face at your reception desk, but why can't you sell me a car or a cell phone? Fat people don't infect the money before they hand it to you!

For the record, I have been as much as 150 pounds overweight, but currently only about 50, and got the same reactions at basically all sizes.

I try very hard not to be biased/discriminatory towards others, we are all human and deserve respect.

/rant