[PaulaS]

I attended psychodynamic therapy for some months and got suddenly terminated. The termination was based on the T:s decision, without me really getting a grip of why. I mostly liked the psychodynamic kind of therapy but my former T suggested that psycho analysis would be more suitable.

I don´t have any severe diagnoses, I´m suffering from relationship problems, abandonment issues, probably caused by affiliation problems as a child. I suffer from "ordinary" anxiety, and a sometimes low self esteem.

I was a bit shocked when my T suggested psycho analysis as it´s a treatment form you have to attend for several days a week for several years, that just says to me that my problems can´t be dealt with in an ordinary psychodynamic therapy.

Does anyone has a good distinction between those two kinds of therapy methods?

On what should you base your decision when you choose between those therapy methods?

I just got to know that it would be good for me just getting the possibility to talk more freely if I choose psycho analysis but that reason feels a bit vague. I think depending on the therapist you could talk freely in psychodynamic therapy as well?

Really appreciating to hear about your experiences.

[kaliope]

I didn't even know all that many people were providing psychoanalysis anymore. most are doing cbt

[Partless]

Frankly, PaulaS, I don't like psychoanalysis. In some ways it's like a fundamentalist religion where people worship Freud and his original views. Many psychoanalysts still refer to things like "penis envy" and their methods are outdated too. Most of people who undergo it are people who have a lot of money (many forms are not covered by insurance and are very costly), undergoing psychoanalytical training themselves (most of those schools require that the student under go several years of intense analysis), or just want to experiment with different therapies. It has almost no scientific support, given that many of the ideas can not be operationalized.

Psychodynamic therapy seems to take some of the useful insights of psychoanalysis but also includes other new and different aspects and importantly, it has some good scientific support. It is less structured than psychodynamic therapy and there is less of a power difference and it's more interactive.

[Utterly]

Originally Posted by Partless

Frankly, PaulaS, I don't like psychoanalysis. In some ways it's like a fundamentalist religion where people worship Freud and his original views. Many psychoanalysts still refer to things like "penis envy" and their methods are outdated too. Most of people who undergo it are people who have a lot of money (many forms are not covered by insurance and are very costly), undergoing psychoanalytical training themselves (most of those schools require that the student under go several years of intense analysis), or just want to experiment with different therapies. It has almost no scientific support, given that many of the ideas can not be operationalized.

I think you have a couple of points with some validity, but also a lot of unfair characterizations. There is plenty within psychoanalysis that is scientifically validated. http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/nholland/psas&sci.htm Just the same as medicine, psychoanalysis is simultaneously both science and art. We don't denegrate medicine for being unscientific; we see it as necessity, each patient should be treated holistically.

As for Freud being venerated, I disagree with that assessment. In a lot of ways, Freud is completely discounted; his very literal psychosexual model of development and structured tripartite mind in particular. He's rightfully regarded as the father of modern psychiatry, however, and his fingerprints are all over the field, new and old.

Most psychoanalysts are modern, eclectic or integrative. There are probably a dozen significant schools within psychoanalysis; to name but a handful of significant 'movements', Jung, the 'British school' (Abraham, Klein, Fairburn, Winnicott,) Bion, Fromm, Adler, Lacan, Kohut, Hartman and Erikson. Most psychoanalysts are hardly formulaic to one method, as each client is individual.

Its true that psychoanalysis isn't for everyone. It is expensive and a big commitment. Its not designed for those with meaningful non-function; you need to be able to free associate, have some insight, reasonable intelligence and ego-function (much the same as psychodynamic therapy with the exception of the free association.)

For some, psychoanalysis doesn't make sense, for others, the immersive intensity of psychoanalysis is probably the only useful option.

[stopdog]

The psychodynamic ones I see do not admit to having any structure or form or reason for why they say or do what they do. It could be useful to give psychoanalysis a try.

[Lauliza]

I think it's a preference based on many factors, first being your personality type. After that it's a huge time commitment and very expensive and depending on where you live, not easy to find Ts that work in this area.

Personally I think most people have too much going on in their lives to attend therapy once a week, never mind as much as three times a week.

[Partless]

Utterly, I think our disagreement is more about labeling. Some of the things you label as psychoanalysis, I don't see as psychoanalysis. Various people disagreed with Freud and his methods and started their own approach, their own treatment methods. They gave it new names. Some choose to see those people as practicing psychoanalysis, some don't. Just to be clear, my comment was on pure psychoanalysis, on the original method, the pure Freudian ones, several hours a week, you lie down and free associate with the T out of sight, etc.

[PaulaS]

Is it possible to say something about diagnosis in this matter? I mentioned a bit about my diagnoses in my thread and I really wonder why those issues have to be threated in psychoanalysis, that is what my former T recommended.

Originally Posted by Partless

Frankly, PaulaS, I don't like psychoanalysis. In some ways it's like a fundamentalist religion where people worship Freud and his original views. Many psychoanalysts still refer to things like "penis envy" and their methods are outdated too. Most of people who undergo it are people who have a lot of money (many forms are not covered by insurance and are very costly), undergoing psychoanalytical training themselves (most of those schools require that the student under go several years of intense analysis), or just want to experiment with different therapies. It has almost no scientific support, given that many of the ideas can not be operationalized.

Psychodynamic therapy seems to take some of the useful insights of psychoanalysis but also includes other new and different aspects and importantly, it has some good scientific support. It is less structured than psychodynamic therapy and there is less of a power difference and it's more interactive.

[PaulaS]

What personality type do you think it mostly "suitable" for psychoanalysis? I feel very confused about my former T recommending me this kind of therapy as there are a lot of types of psychodynamic terapists. I mean, some of them take on a more quiet style as well?

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I think it's a preference based on many factors, first being your personality type. After that it's a huge time commitment and very expensive and depending on where you live, not easy to find Ts that work in this area.

Personally I think most people have too much going on in their lives to attend therapy once a week, never mind as much as three times a week.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by PaulaS

Is it possible to say something about diagnosis in this matter? I mentioned a bit about my diagnoses in my thread and I really wonder why those issues have to be threated in psychoanalysis, that is what my former T recommended.

Well, generally speaking, psychoanalysts look for people who don't have any serious diagnosable problems. I think the original method of psychoanalysis, the free association, is not a good idea for people with certain problems, like psychosis or some severe personality issues. Psychodynamic therapy is more likely appropriate for the more severe problems (though not all). You say that your problems are not severe nor you have a diagnosis. Your problems you mention seem to be relationship related. From that perspective alone, I don't think either choice would be wrong. Presumably psychoanalysis would lead to deeper character change but that's certainly up for debate and has not been proven. But in theory, it's about digging quite deep in your childhood and past and your unconscious life, using free association as the starting point.

[SnakeCharmer]

Paula, I don't know what it's like in your country, but where I live, most psychoanalysis is paid for out-of-pocket by the patient. You've mentioned financial constraints and I don't see how it would be possible for you to participate in psychoanalysis several times a week for several years if you don't have the money to pay for it.

I would suggest you call and talk to various therapy offices in your area and find out which ones will be covered by your insurance so that you don't have to go bankrupt paying for therapy that might take years to work.

Once you have a list of Ts who will take your insurance, you can research more about them. From what you've said about your symptoms, I don't see any reason why psychoanalysis would be better for you than some other type of therapy. Especially if you can't afford to do it properly.

There are many different kinds of therapy and therapists. Many therapists call themselves eclectic in their approach because they use many different techniques. What matters most is having someone you can talk to honestly and who who treats you with consistency and caring.

Please don't restrict yourself to the suggestion made by your former T. From the way she behaved regarding your termination, she may not have the best judgment.

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by Partless

Well, generally speaking, psychoanalysts look for people who don't have any serious diagnosable problems. I think the original method of psychoanalysis, the free association, is not a good idea for people with certain problems, like psychosis or some severe personality issues. Psychodynamic therapy is more likely appropriate for the more severe problems (though not all). You say that your problems are not severe nor you have a diagnosis. Your problems you mention seem to be relationship related. From that perspective alone, I don't think either choice would be wrong. Presumably psychoanalysis would lead to deeper character change but that's certainly up for debate and has not been proven. But in theory, it's about digging quite deep in your childhood and past and your unconscious life, using free association as the starting point.

It depends on the psychoanalyst. When I was young I went to one for about 8 years even though I did have severe problems. She didn't treat me as being severely mentally ill though. And that made me feel better about myself, more like a valid human being.

[PaulaS]

Interesting answer. I in some way thought of psychoanalysis as therapy for those with severe diagnoses but it feels a bit better when hearing it´s not that way as I as I said was recommended this by my former T.

It seems good to dig deep into your personality but it also takes a lot of resources, especially financial as several people mentioned. I´m now a bit confused why my T actually recommended this, perhaps it was because it´s sometimes more easy to access psychoanalysis through public healthcare in my country.

Originally Posted by Partless

Well, generally speaking, psychoanalysts look for people who don't have any serious diagnosable problems. I think the original method of psychoanalysis, the free association, is not a good idea for people with certain problems, like psychosis or some severe personality issues. Psychodynamic therapy is more likely appropriate for the more severe problems (though not all). You say that your problems are not severe nor you have a diagnosis. Your problems you mention seem to be relationship related. From that perspective alone, I don't think either choice would be wrong. Presumably psychoanalysis would lead to deeper character change but that's certainly up for debate and has not been proven. But in theory, it's about digging quite deep in your childhood and past and your unconscious life, using free association as the starting point.

[doyoutrustme]

Who can afford analysis anymore?

[ECHOES]

My LMHC is psychodynamic/psychoanalytic. I have weekly sessions currently. I have had, and prefer, twice weekly sessions and have done that too. A few times, I added another session as well. My finances determine how often I so.

The number of sessions as well as the style, vary. My T and I sit face to face; she has a couch and I'm welcome to lay on it, but we talked about it a lot and her experience is that it is not 'better', and that the relationship loses something by the lack of seeing one another. Free association happens in the form of saying whatever comes to mind, being as spontaneous as is comfortable -- exploring everything from what is said to what is held back, why I get stuck and can't say a word suddenly, and why each is happening. It's so interesting. The best therapy I've been in.

As far as what diagnoses a therapist treats, that can vary based on their preference and experience. My T treats young children and adults, and many diagnoses including personality disorders.

My therapist was in practice for many years before she earned her psychoanalysis certificate from the psychoanalytic institute.

I hope you consider giving analysis a try.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by PaulaS

Interesting answer. I in some way thought of psychoanalysis as therapy for those with severe diagnoses but it feels a bit better when hearing it´s not that way as I as I said was recommended this by my former T.

It seems good to dig deep into your personality but it also takes a lot of resources, especially financial as several people mentioned. I´m now a bit confused why my T actually recommended this, perhaps it was because it´s sometimes more easy to access psychoanalysis through public healthcare in my country.

Oh I thought you lived here in US. Yeah I think it would be helpful maybe if you can find out more about what's offered where you live and what's covered and what psychoanalysis or other therapies actually look like in practice. Sometimes labels don't tell you the whole story. There are many sources online where you can learn more about both kinds of therapy too and get more accurate and more detailed information than what somebody like myself could offer, but again, it's important find out about people who actually offer those therapies in your community and to learn about their approach.

[Lauliza]

[QUOTE=PaulaS;4096348]What personality type do you think it mostly "suitable" for psychoanalysis? I feel very confused about my former T recommending me this kind of therapy as there are a lot of types of psychodynamic terapists. I mean, some of them take on a more quiet style as well?[/]

I can't really make a judgement as to what personalities psychoanalysis is better suited to. I'm no expert on it but I do know there is more focus on your past. Your childhood experiences and relationships are explored in depth. I prefer CBT and DBT, which focus on skill building and coping skills. I don't do the groups so I do a mix of talk therapy with it. I think I am insightful but don't really enjoy all the talking- to me it doesn't seem active enough. I don't want to focus on my childhood anymore or analyze attachment styles. I'd rather talk about wages happening with me while also working strategies for change and resolution. But I bore easily and don't always have a ton of patience. So that's what I meant when I referred to personality. My personality type probably doesn't mesh well with psychoanalysis.

Psychodynamic therapy is based on psychoanalysis but doesn't have the structure. It's basically talk therapy and is usually varies in style depending on the therapist. I think the most important thing is finding a therapist you connect with instead of focusing on the type of therapy. If you know what you want to accomplish in therapy you will have an easier time finding a therapist.

It's possible your T was wrong in what she said. I think there is no reason why you would not be suited to psychodynamic therapy. My T is psychoanalytically and psychodynamically trained. I see her once a week. We haven't done any free association or anything like that, we just talk, always about what I bring up. I can see that the unconscious is important to her.

I hope you find a good T.