[PaulaS]

I´m looking for a new T at the moment and I met with one of them before Christmas. As I´m looking for a long-term therapy of two years or so I decided not to have any more sessions with this T because of her age. She said herself she was to retire within two or three years. I rather see a T who´s a bit younger and who´s going to work for some years more as you can never know for how long you'll have to stay in therapy.

I sent her an e-mail with my decision and didn´t think further about it. A day later or so I received an e-mail from her where she said she had thought about my case (not me in person) and she talked about what I could benefit from. She talked about a couple of forms of therapy, amongst them ordinary psychotherapy. She also talked a bit about my behaviour in therapy, the way I talked and presented my issues, she mentioned I intellectualized a lot.

She said she in a way had "seen through" this and that she had a thought about that I needed to be "held and understood". Two basic concepts within the object relation theory so it´s nothing strange by that per se.

She also said it was a pity I decided not to proceed into therapy and I know she mentioned that because I said it was because of her age I choose not to go on. I said I got a positive impression of her otherwise.

As she showed this interest in me, she thought about my case and as she formulated her thoughts in an e-mail I´ve been thinking of scheduling a second evaluation session with her although I hesitate about her age. But at the same time, having read a lot about boundaries and that a T shouldn´t influence a client to join therapy I hesitate about contacting her again.

She has lowered her fee because of my financial situation so I know it´s not because of money she does this. I though think about her leaving comments after only one meeting with me. I feel she´s right about what she said in her e-mail but I can´t stop thinking about why she acted this way.

Perhaps she just feels she really thinks she can help me. The thing "being held and understood" is without doubt something I need within therapy but it has to be more to it of course.

Is this a kind of boundary crossing do you think? I can´t really think of any hidden motives, it seems far-fetched that she does all this to get money as I wouldn´t pay her that much for each session.

They are kind of damned it they do, damned if they don't with you, aren't they? If you liked her other than her age, why not go back and see her again. I see it as a good sign that she gave your first meeting that much thought and addressed your concerns up front. She's not forcing you to see her again. You can ignore the email and continue with the one you are currently trying out, or . . . you can give this one a second look. You are in control here.

I didn't get the sense (from what you described) that she was soliciting your business and inviting you to come back, just that she'd wanted to share her impressions of you (that you agree are accurate) and maybe give a little recommendation about the type of therapy you might benefit from. I've never heard of a therapist going to this extent, but I would think you'd like that she thought so much of you. I'm confused that you find this to be a problem, but agree with lolagrace that there's probably no winning.

[scorpiosis37]

No, I do not think this is boundary crossing by a T. In fact, I think it shows extreme generosity and thoughtfulness. A T is certainly not required to go out of their way for a prospective client this is--- but it shows that she feels she has the potential and desire to help you-- if you want her help. She is not being pushy or requesting that you chose her; she is simply sharing her observations with you. She sounds like she could be a wonderful therapist if you chose her. As others have suggested, you seem to be hard-bent on finding any reason to reject a potential T. I would encourage you to open yourself up a little bit and look for the positives as well as the negatives!

[Ididitmyway]

Technically speaking, this is not a professional boundary crossing, but this kind of behavior from therapist always irritates me personally. I understand your hesitation and feeling uncomfortable about what she did. I would feel uncomfortable too.

Once I tell the therapist "I decided not to commit to working with you, thank you very much for your time", I expect them to leave me alone, and when they don't, to me personally it does feel like boundary crossing.

I don't appreciate unsolicited analysis of my behavior by someone to whom I clearly communicated that I decided not to hire them for this particular service, especially when they tell me after seeing me just ONCE that they could "see through" me (which is insulting IMO) and that I need to be "held and understood". No kidding? Show me one single human being on this planet who doesn't need to be held and understood.

It's up to you to give her a chance or not. If I got this kind of email from the therapist who saw me just once and to whom I told that their service isn't needed, I'd be pissed. I definitely wouldn't think of seeing them again.

The OP sent an email discussing her reasoning, so the therapist replied to her email thoughtfully ( and previously the OP has expressed a desire for a T who would reply thoughtfully to her emails). The OP has rejected other T's who didn't reply thoughtfully to her email correspondence. Here she has one who did, and now that's not okay either.

She's rejected therapists who she felt had no theoretical expertise, yet here apparently is one who clearly seems to be quite knowledgeable, but now she's found another possible reason to reject this therapist.

She's said she wants a therapist who is interested in working with her. Here is a therapist who clearly finds her interesting and thought provoking, yet she's once again looking for a reason to doubt her.

She says she wants a therapist who doesn't just want the "easy" cases. This therapist, whether she actually considers her case standard or difficult, is saying she thinks she has some insight that might be helpful, yet she's finding this reason to possibly discount her ability to help.

At some point Paula, you are going to have to stop devising reasons to reject every therapist you encounter. Whether its this T or some other really isn't the issue. I think many of us here are just not understanding this seek and reject thing you have going on. You say you want to be in therapy, but you have an amazing intolerance of every single therapist prospect you interview. You said once that you don't give therapists second chances. That makes finding a therapist virtually impossible because you are expecting the impossible--perfection from a stranger. You can't find perfection in any individual, even after knowing them intimately. How can any therapist prospect, a virtual stranger, ever live up to your absolute expectation of perfection in your mind when they don't know you yet, nor do you give them the opportunity to?

Here you have a therapist who seems to meet the criteria you keep discussing and once again you are questioning her. I completely understand her age is concerning. That's actually very valid reasoning although you are assuming your therapy will take several years when it very well might not, or she might be really effective to you in those years and transitioning to another therapist down the road once you've made progress might not nearly be as difficult at that point. You don't have to see her again, but at least be honest with yourself that if you choose not to see her again after her thoughtful response to you, it is because of your own insecurities and pretty unobtainable need for perfection in others, not because this candidate has actually done anything wrong.

[feralkittymom]

Another way to look at this is that your initial meeting was a consultation and she is giving you the results of that consultation in response to your e-mail because you said you would not be scheduling another appointment. In a way, you're getting the report you've paid for.

The difficulty here is not within all of the Ts you have consulted. It is that you are creating absolutist barriers to engagement. You can't know if any relationship would be successful because you dismiss them from the start. This process of testing and dismissing can go on forever, but I don't see what benefit is possible from it.

This therapist is going to retire within two to three years, I think some people find two to three years of therapy helpful, others need a lot longer. I think that your first thought was that for this reason it would be better not to start with her? You told her this was the reason you did not want to work with her, and yet she did not address this in her email to you. I would not be entirely comfortable with that. I would not choose to work with a therapist myself who is due to retire in that timescale as I want my therapy to continue until it feels right to finish (obviously within reason).

[brillskep]

Yes, I find this to be a boundary crossing - not the insisting so much as the giving feedback that was not required. But just because it's a boundary crossing, I don't think it has to be a bad thing. It's not a violation, it's not black on white unethical or anything like that. I think this is one of those situations where you might like to take some time and think, what if she maintains this attitude throughout your therapy? Would you find it helpful, intrusive, or something else? What do you think about her approach? Are there advantages in choosing her over other therapists? These are the types of questions I would ask myself if I were in this situation. It's probably a good idea to listen to your gut feeling too - whether or not this is something that feels right and that you want.

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

This therapist is going to retire within two to three years, I think some people find two to three years of therapy helpful, others need a lot longer. I think that your first thought was that for this reason it would be better not to start with her? You told her this was the reason you did not want to work with her, and yet she did not address this in her email to you. I would not be entirely comfortable with that. I would not choose to work with a therapist myself who is due to retire in that timescale as I want my therapy to continue until it feels right to finish (obviously within reason).

Completely get that, and if that was her reasoning for continuing to reject this therapist candidate, I think we would all get that. But it sounds like she realizes that actually this therapist may be what she is looking for, but now she is creating possible boundary crossing as another reason to reject this therapist. If the age factor is the problem, fine, just say that despite how good this therapist looks, the age factor just isn't going to work for her. Why the need to find a reason to find this other "flaw" to justify not seeing this therapist? That's what is so bothersome to many of us here.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Those 2 years (before this therapist's retirement) will pass anyway, regardless of whether you are working with her or not. Those years will go by in the blink of an eye and you could easily still not find a therapist if you are still in the mindset you're in about it all.

Or those 2 years could pass, with you working with her, and you taking some great strides forward so even if you still have work left to do you are in a better place than right now.

I do think it is boundary crossing. Once you told her you didn't want to see her she should have left you alone. It's weird and almost desperate seeming (creepy too) that she sent you that email. Very odd behavior. I would be extremely uncomfortable with her.

I also want to say that once you go through a painful and unethical termination I think it is natural to be scared of finding a new therapist so if it seems like Paula is rejecting all therapists it's probably out of fear even though she really wants to find one. It's self defeating for sure, but totally understandable.

[PaulaS]

The thing is that it was much the e-mail itself that made me think of getting back to her. When I saw her at our first evaluation session I thought she was nice but I didn´t get a real sense of her. When she sent the e-mail I said I was going to meet with other therapists and that I was to get back to her either way even if I didn´t want to proceed into therapy with her.

I know I can just ignore answer her back although I said so but that would be totally not me, I can´t ignore a person who´s been that kind. And that´s also my dilemma in this. As most of you here at PC don´t think it´s a boundary violation by T I don´t have that aspect to look into no more. I can´t be sure of the other therapist I´ve now seen for two evaluations so far but I see a good potential in a therapy with her.

At the same time, this T I talk about here in this post, really made an impression on me although I don´t know that much about her really.

Originally Posted by lolagrace

They are kind of damned it they do, damned if they don't with you, aren't they? If you liked her other than her age, why not go back and see her again. I see it as a good sign that she gave your first meeting that much thought and addressed your concerns up front. She's not forcing you to see her again. You can ignore the email and continue with the one you are currently trying out, or . . . you can give this one a second look. You are in control here.

[PaulaS]

I think she contacted me again mostly because I told her I got a positive impression of her, which I did, but that I didn´t want to proceed because of her age. Because she early in the evaluation told me she was to retire in a couple of years, perhaps a bit later on, I didn´t focus that much on the session.

It had been another situation I think if I told her I didn´t like her, then she hadn´t contacted me again I think. This is really hard as I don´t want to meet with this T knowing that I probably will choose the other one. On the other hand, I feel I perhaps miss out on a person who is honest. She also told me she felt challenged (in a good way) to start therapy with me.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Technically speaking, this is not a professional boundary crossing, but this kind of behavior from therapist always irritates me personally. I understand your hesitation and feeling uncomfortable about what she did. I would feel uncomfortable too.

Once I tell the therapist "I decided not to commit to working with you, thank you very much for your time", I expect them to leave me alone, and when they don't, to me personally it does feel like boundary crossing.

I don't appreciate unsolicited analysis of my behavior by someone to whom I clearly communicated that I decided not to hire them for this particular service, especially when they tell me after seeing me just ONCE that they could "see through" me (which is insulting IMO) and that I need to be "held and understood". No kidding? Show me one single human being on this planet who doesn't need to be held and understood.

It's up to you to give her a chance or not. If I got this kind of email from the therapist who saw me just once and to whom I told that their service isn't needed, I'd be pissed. I definitely wouldn't think of seeing them again.

[PaulaS]

I know I discuss a lot of pros and cons of potential T:s but in this case I really wanted to know as the actions of this cT could be seen as a boundary violation. I now understand most people don´t think it was but if a lot of you had thought it was, it doesn´t matter how nice or thoughtful this T appears.

Of course I want thoughtful answers to e-mails and so on, if I had just rejected this T I hadn´t brought the boundary issue up at all. As I have to choose between T:s at the moment, I´m at that point when you don´t get any more evaluation sessions, I also have to look into lots of details.

The two T:s I at the moment choose between have several similar characteristics and that just makes the decision very hard. I don´t want to go into evaluation sessions and pretend I´m interesting in continuing, I want to be sure and give the T a fair chance when discussing a potential therapy.

Originally Posted by lolagrace

The OP sent an email discussing her reasoning, so the therapist replied to her email thoughtfully ( and previously the OP has expressed a desire for a T who would reply thoughtfully to her emails). The OP has rejected other T's who didn't reply thoughtfully to her email correspondence. Here she has one who did, and now that's not okay either.

She's rejected therapists who she felt had no theoretical expertise, yet here apparently is one who clearly seems to be quite knowledgeable, but now she's found another possible reason to reject this therapist.

She's said she wants a therapist who is interested in working with her. Here is a therapist who clearly finds her interesting and thought provoking, yet she's once again looking for a reason to doubt her.

She says she wants a therapist who doesn't just want the "easy" cases. This therapist, whether she actually considers her case standard or difficult, is saying she thinks she has some insight that might be helpful, yet she's finding this reason to possibly discount her ability to help.

At some point Paula, you are going to have to stop devising reasons to reject every therapist you encounter. Whether its this T or some other really isn't the issue. I think many of us here are just not understanding this seek and reject thing you have going on. You say you want to be in therapy, but you have an amazing intolerance of every single therapist prospect you interview. You said once that you don't give therapists second chances. That makes finding a therapist virtually impossible because you are expecting the impossible--perfection from a stranger. You can't find perfection in any individual, even after knowing them intimately. How can any therapist prospect, a virtual stranger, ever live up to your absolute expectation of perfection in your mind when they don't know you yet, nor do you give them the opportunity to?

Here you have a therapist who seems to meet the criteria you keep discussing and once again you are questioning her. I completely understand her age is concerning. That's actually very valid reasoning although you are assuming your therapy will take several years when it very well might not, or she might be really effective to you in those years and transitioning to another therapist down the road once you've made progress might not nearly be as difficult at that point. You don't have to see her again, but at least be honest with yourself that if you choose not to see her again after her thoughtful response to you, it is because of your own insecurities and pretty unobtainable need for perfection in others, not because this candidate has actually done anything wrong.

[PaulaS]

I´ve thought about this issue out of the perspectives you mention and I have been into that question whether she would keep acting this way. I mostly then think about if her way in therapy will be to "hold and understand me", that´s of course a very vital and healing part but I don´t know anything about her other objectives in therapy.

I don´t have enough information yet to decide this out of my gut feeling. I know I like both therapists whom I now choose between.

Originally Posted by brillskep

Yes, I find this to be a boundary crossing - not the insisting so much as the giving feedback that was not required. But just because it's a boundary crossing, I don't think it has to be a bad thing. It's not a violation, it's not black on white unethical or anything like that. I think this is one of those situations where you might like to take some time and think, what if she maintains this attitude throughout your therapy? Would you find it helpful, intrusive, or something else? What do you think about her approach? Are there advantages in choosing her over other therapists? These are the types of questions I would ask myself if I were in this situation. It's probably a good idea to listen to your gut feeling too - whether or not this is something that feels right and that you want.

[SabinaS]

Sounds like you might have found a good fit with someone - you like her, she seems attuned to you. Why not see her again and go from there. You do appear to be looking for reasons to reject potential therapists, given your past experience, it's totally understandable. I don't think it's a boundary issue, you paid for a consultation and have received feedback... if you had wanted to see her again, perhaps she would have given the feedback in your next session?