[musinglizzy]

I KNOW there are people here who don't want it, this question isn't for you this time. How many people have T's that offer touch, aside from the occasional hug or handshake? What kind of touch? Have you both talked about the benefits or downsides of this? How does it make you feel?

[Polyphony]

Following this thread because I also want to know. Musing, I've heard from many people whose Ts will hold their hand for extended periods of time for support and for grounding. I've also read a few books written by therapists (for therapists, even though I'm a client...because I like to know what Ts are talking about) where the author has suggested that touching, as long as it is initiated by the client and as long as the client has talked about the accompanying feelings surrounding that touch, can be super-beneficial for therapy because it offers physical human connection, which is something that we fundamentally need.

That being said, it's important to always talk about it. Touch can cover up necessary feelings...can shorten them or even stop them in their tracks. The feelings that brought on the need for physical touch usually need to be addressed.

It's probably for the same reason that Ts often ask us to talk through our tears. Because the words accompanying the tears still need to be spoken...at least in the case of CBT.

[stopdog]

The first one I ever saw, in the mid 1980's wanted to hold me while I cried.
(It did not happen - but she kept offering to do so) It just made me feel weird. We did not talk about the pros and cons of touch. We mostly talked about the crying part of it. She said she let herself cry once a week for all the stuff she heard while therapizing.

[BayBrony]

We do energy work in all my sessions, which involves my T touching me, usually my belly, neck or head. If she is doing my head or neck she will just put her hands on me. If she is doing my belly she will move her hands in firm slow circles, mostly because I'm really ticklish and if she leaves her hands in one spot for too long I get twitchy.
This is planned into my session. We talk for about 30 minutes, then we will switch to energy work for 15 minutes or so. We still talk sometimes in fact it is easier for me to be vulnerable when we are doing the energy work. So sometimes I will reveal things I wouldn't otherwise reveal. The last 15 minutes of my session is always spent with my T sitting on the floor with me . I put my head in her lap, she strokes my back and that is often when we will discuss really difficult child hood things. The signal that time is almost up is usually her tickling me. Then we switch to a minute or two of her holding me against her chest which we call "otter snuggles" because her totem is the otter and it reminds me of the way sea otters hold their babies. ( she gave me a little statue of mom and baby sea otter). We don't "discuss" it a lot. I expressed needs and together we worked out how to meet them. I have major issues with feeling that I am too disgusting to touch so it's very helpful and has greatly increased our bond. My T does not seem concerned about anything bad happening from it. I take more risks in the therapeutic relationship because I feel so loved, and I am learning how to remember those feelings and use them to help myself hold on to our connection in between sessions. It's really pretty wonderful. It might sound weird to some people but it's really wonderful and helping a great deal. I'd been in therapy for over 2 years with her before she ever did more than hug me at the end of sessions since it took me that long to start expressing needs. I feel incredibly lucky to have her. .

[BayBrony]

I wanted to add that I have major childhood neglect and abuse issues. My T feels my need for loving touch and being held is very legitimate and real and deserves attention.

[TheWell]

My individual T doesn't do any touch but my group T will. He has put his hand on my shoulder or rubbed my back if I'm having a hard time. I can ask him to put his hand on my back or shoulder if I need to ground and he will. You said you didn't mean hugs but the first couple years he didn't hug me and one day he offered. It took me a while to ask for another one after the first. We've talked about hugs and now whenever I see him individually (I sometimes see my group T individually) he hugs me at the end every time now. I also have occasionally asked for a hug during group and he will hug me.
Touch is important to me because I don't have a lot of touch in my life otherwise.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

I wanted to add that I have major childhood neglect and abuse issues. My T feels my need for loving touch and being held is very legitimate and real and deserves attention.

I do too. My T used to hold me when I cried, and it didn't lessen it, it actually made me cry more....which is good because I fight to cry. She quit doing it without saying a word, and several sessions later I finally realized it, and she decided touch wasn't her modality and she's not comfortable with it, and that I'm supposed to learn to comfort myself and her actions could cause regression. It's been four months now and I've been putting myself through pure HELL in therapy lately. I don't want it often, but I wish sometimes she'd offer that again, but she says she won't. I now feel untouchable and undeserving, and she won't tell me what made her change her boundaries, so of course I blame myself. I've been in a deep depression for the last four months that I can't get over. Smoking more, self medicating, SI, and unable to get that connection back with her I once had. But I still feel like I need her and cant imagine getting through things without her at this time, so I stay. Even though it hurts. Bad.

[Polyphony]

((((musing))))

That sounds really hard. Hang in there, Musing. You're very brave for pushing yourself so hard and continuing to go back. Especially since what you crave is something you can't currently receive. Very courageous indeed.

[justdesserts]

My T will sit next to me and touch my knee or back, but nothing more. Anything else would make me uncomfortable.

[Ellahmae]

Yes. She will hold my hand for grounding and comfort. Rarely happens but is needed when it does.

[atisketatasket]

She's offered to hold my hand, also for grounding and comfort. I have not yet taken her up on it, and we haven't discussed the offer.

[musinglizzy]

I wish she'd have never done it. The first time, I asked. The dozen or more times after that, she did it on her own if she felt the situation warranted it. I kinda feel like she did it for her own gratification, not mine. I need a break from putting myself through hell in therapy. I'm not disclosing anything more for awhile. It's too hard. I'm crying over issues I'm talking about, but a lot of it is wishing she'd just sit by me. She won't even do that. I said she didn't have to touch me, but she still won't.

[BayBrony]

I'd still encourage you to look for a therapist who might meet those very valid needs. Your Therapist handled it so poorly. And honestly I haven't seen evidence in my own life that I can just learn to comfort myself. I did that once already as a kid and chose really bad ways to comfort myself. Am I supposed to be better at it now??? How?? My adult relationships have mostly been more loving and successful than my childhood ones but like a lot of abused people I've. Been in bad relationships too. I'm just not sure I buy that forcing me to drown in my own pain alone which is typically what I did from infancy on is going to magically teach me self care.

[Sawyerr]

I think touch is the most important part of my therapy now. When I first started seeing my T, I couldn't stand being touched. I never was really touched before (not a single touch from my parents and siblings/relatives, no romantic relationships, friends,..) and it all felt weird and scary. My T slowly introduced it to me through hand shakes and putting her hand on my shoulder. Then after couple of months she offered to hold my hand and it was an experience I'll never forget. At first I couldn't tolerate it long, didn't even feel her hand under mine, but after a while, I started to admire and feel her hand. I felt like a baby who've seen hand for the first time. Then later we did energy work and she put her hand on my belly, under my neck, my forehead,.. I think it was mostly to ''remind'' me that she is there, next to me. Then she started offering hugs and always told me I can say no, asked if I would want it or not, said we can try it and stop if I wouldn't like it,.. Then one day she offered to hold me. We sat on the floor and she asked me if I want to come to her. We sometimes do that every session, or every second and for around 20-30 minutes. Sometimes I fall asleep when she holds me. She caresses my hair and I lean on her chest and listen to her heartbeat. This is the best thing that has ever happened to me. It's calming and safe and really magical. When we stop she gives me a kiss on top of the head and then we talk a little. I am much more present and able to maintain eye-contact with her after being held. Sometimes she holds my hands when I am dissociating which helps me to ''come back''. She always asks and is very careful with how she touches me.

I think I wouldn't be where I am now, if it wasn't for the touch-work I did with her. It makes me feel loved, cared for, safe and calm. It helped me bond with her and it's what got me attached to her - there's a lot to say about that attachment thing, but maybe under some other topic. Sometimes when I am feeling very anxious or frustrated, I get paranoid about irrational things, or I hear or see things that aren't there and at those times, being touched by her helps enormously.

I never ask for any kind of touch from her, I can't. No matter how much I want it, I can't ask.

Sorry for this being long. I had a lot to say.

[Gavinandnikki]

I literally begged my therapist to touch me, multiple times.

No, she doesn't touch her clients, ever. I asked her if I had a cardiac arrest in session would she perform CPR on me while waiting for EMS.

She said, "Hmmm".

Really? That pissed me off so f'in bad, can't tell you how much money I spent ranting about that.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by Sawyerr

I think touch is the most important part of my therapy now. When I first started seeing my T, I couldn't stand being touched. I never was really touched before (not a single touch from my parents and siblings/relatives, no romantic relationships, friends,..) and it all felt weird and scary. My T slowly introduced it to me through hand shakes and putting her hand on my shoulder. Then after couple of months she offered to hold my hand and it was an experience I'll never forget. At first I couldn't tolerate it long, didn't even feel her hand under mine, but after a while, I started to admire and feel her hand. I felt like a baby who've seen hand for the first time. Then later we did energy work and she put her hand on my belly, under my neck, my forehead,.. I think it was mostly to ''remind'' me that she is there, next to me. Then she started offering hugs and always told me I can say no, asked if I would want it or not, said we can try it and stop if I wouldn't like it,.. Then one day she offered to hold me. We sat on the floor and she asked me if I want to come to her. We sometimes do that every session, or every second and for around 20-30 minutes. Sometimes I fall asleep when she holds me. She caresses my hair and I lean on her chest and listen to her heartbeat. This is the best thing that has ever happened to me. It's calming and safe and really magical. When we stop she gives me a kiss on top of the head and then we talk a little. I am much more present and able to maintain eye-contact with her after being held. Sometimes she holds my hands when I am dissociating which helps me to ''come back''. She always asks and is very careful with how she touches me.

I think I wouldn't be where I am now, if it wasn't for the touch-work I did with her. It makes me feel loved, cared for, safe and calm. It helped me bond with her and it's what got me attached to her - there's a lot to say about that attachment thing, but maybe under some other topic. Sometimes when I am feeling very anxious or frustrated, I get paranoid about irrational things, or I hear or see things that aren't there and at those times, being touched by her helps enormously.

I never ask for any kind of touch from her, I can't. No matter how much I want it, I can't ask.

Sorry for this being long. I had a lot to say.

Wow....I can't imagine a therapist kissing a client. I will admit I have given mine a peck on the cheek once or twice in over a year of seeing her twice a week. I stay because I'm attached to my T. Because she was, at one time, the perfect T for me. I keep holding onto hope that I will feel that she is that perfect T again. She doesn't realize the horrible pain (practically retraumatizing) that her actions have done. She never even talked to me about it, or told me until I confronted her, so now I'm always worried she will change something else without telling me. She used to give me prolonged hugs. Gone. She used to answer every Email. Gone. She used to tell me she loved me. Gone. It's strange how if I feel 100% connected to my T, my real life relationships are so much better. But if I am having troubles with my T, I push my real life relationships away too. That tells me that her example helps me with my relationships in my real life. I shouldn't let her affect me this much. She told me she's never been physical with anyone else in over 20 years like she was with me, and that she only did it for a limited period of time. Why couldn't she let me know that??? I told her I wish she'd never done it then, and had she given me a choice, I would have said NO had I known she'd take it away. I'm still hurting so badly with this and she knows this. The only apology I've gotten? "I'm sorry you feel that way." But my T has also been very generous with her time outside of sessions. She has been in touch with me during vacations. I can text/Email whenever I want. She waived my copay because we were under financial hardship. She has done some great things for me. But I just can't get past this one thing. I don't WANT the memories, because I know what she's capable of!! She'd come sit by me and pull me to her. I'd have my head on her chest, listening to her heartbeat. She'd play with my hair. I felt so safe. I never had that before. But, she won't tell me why she stopped. I am sorry for bringing this up YET AGAIN. I fear sometimes people roll their eyes when they see me post about it... like "here she goes again." There's a long post on this topic from March. It's called something like "touch in therapy...it's gone." She wants me to be able to comfort myself. I do. But her actions have made me feel worthless. Undeserving. She has made me feel so much worse about myself. I wish she would see that. I kept a therapy journal, until our rupture in March. I could tell you every day she sat by me and offered me comfort. Started mid October. Ended mid February. Wasn't every session, but more sessions than not if I had to guess (I haven't gone through and counted).

[scorpiosis37]

My T will sit next to me on the couch and put her hand on my knee. She has also briefly put her hand on my shoulder, on my arm, and given me a quick side hug. She will not hold me while I cry though; that is beyond her boundaries.

We also hug at the end of every session.

[PinkFlamingo99]

only hugs with my old one, but hugs at the beginning and end... and I always wanted 2 hugs at the end for some reason. and they were usually really big hugs. She liked hugs too and would be like "okay we have to end, I want a hug." I don't think I'd be comfortable with anything more than that, but then again I'm Canadian and we don't touch as much. hahaha.

I will hold my minister's hand if I'm chatting with her to pray though.

[rainbow8]

I wonder if this thread is just making you more depressed jealous, and angry because other Ts offer touch. You already know that my T will hold my hand as a means of support to regulate/calm my nervous system. She's very careful about it, which is making it seem clinical, but it still feels good. I really think that you should consider finding a T who allows touch. It sounds like your therapeutic relationship lacks trust now, and you can't be honest with your T anymore. I'm sorry you have had to go through this. It's not as hard as you think to switch Ts. Can you check out some who offer touch, or at least see someone for consultation about the situation with your T?

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

My T will sit next to me on the couch and put her hand on my knee. She has also briefly put her hand on my shoulder, on my arm, and given me a quick side hug. She will not hold me while I cry though; that is beyond her boundaries.

We also hug at the end of every session.

That's how it started. She would do that with me, also. I asked her if she'd still, just occasionally, sit by me, NO touch, and she said no, that her place is in her chair. Something happened, and I don't think I can rest until she tells me what. I talked to two family members who are Ts, told them the whole story, and they both think she got too attached, it finally hit her, and she spooked. Which would explain why she won't tell me. She wouldn't admit to becoming too attached, I'm sure.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I wonder if this thread is just making you more depressed jealous, and angry because other Ts offer touch. You already know that my T will hold my hand as a means of support to regulate/calm my nervous system. She's very careful about it, which is making it seem clinical, but it still feels good. I really think that you should consider finding a T who allows touch. It sounds like your therapeutic relationship lacks trust now, and you can't be honest with your T anymore. I'm sorry you have had to go through this. It's not as hard as you think to switch Ts. Can you check out some who offer touch, or at least see someone for consultation about the situation with your T?

No, my reason for this post is to see if it's NOT that uncommon for Ts to offer physical comfort. Not to make me more depressed, angry or jealous.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

That's how it started. She would do that with me, also. I asked her if she'd still, just occasionally, sit by me, NO touch, and she said no, that her place is in her chair. Something happened, and I don't think I can rest until she tells me what. I talked to two family members who are Ts, told them the whole story, and they both think she got too attached, it finally hit her, and she spooked. Which would explain why she won't tell me. She wouldn't admit to becoming too attached, I'm sure.

I'm not sure I even get what "too attached" means.....

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

No, my reason for this post is to see if it's NOT that uncommon for Ts to offer physical comfort. Not to make me more depressed, angry or jealous.

I understand, but you seem to be in pain and in a not so good therapy situation. I was offering you an alternative. Just trying to help.

[Soccer mom]

Sounds like you might need to talk to your T. about this.

In the beginning my T. would pat my back or arm as I left but it wasn't consistent. I realized how much I liked it and finally told her. She asked why it mattered and I said because if you contact me, then I feel like we are ok. She said so if I forget, you think we aren't ok? Ugh, good point. And, she stopped.

Then, a few times she offered a hug after intense sessions. I finally said I just want to be able to hug her and leave like I do with friends. She said, then do and don't ask. I finally realized she was fine if I initiated it but she didn't want me putting too much weight on whether she did or not. And, I left really mad and upset many times so she was probably worried if she offered a hug, I would be mad about it. LOL

Now, I only initiate a hug when I feel like it. And, she rarely does but has before. I like it that way because if I'm mad, I just want to leave mad and would feel her hug was minimizing my feelings or something. Hmmm, this might be the only time I feel like I'm in control.

[brillskep]

Well, what other kind of touch? It's not like my therapist and I touch for the sake of there being touch, so aside from us hugging every other week and accidental touch if I hand him something, there's not much touch. We have held hands on a few occasions, either in individual therapy, group therapy or when the snow in his office garden was knee-deep and he was helping me keep my balance while swimming through it. In his groups, he sometimes put his hand on people's backs to offer support if someone is working through something, but he's never done that with me. Perhaps I've never worked on something "difficult enough" in a group. We have discussed the reasons why we hug and the reasons why we held hands in therapy on a couple of occasions, but not the benefits of touch generally.