[Raging Quiet]

I saw my T on and off for about 9 years.

A mixture of me leaving suddenly from therapy to have a baby coinciding and her semi retiring in her private practice changed our relationship.

At first she sent me emails asking how I was at the end of my pregnancy. We then emailed each other after that. She has always been transparent about her private life, but soon we were speaking as friends through email, not in great depth, but email length increased.

I made an 'appointment' to see her after giving birth as we never discussed termination, which was actually a two way chat, it was about 2 hours long and she didn't accept payment. She seemed shocked that I hadn't realised it was not a therapy session. Perhaps because of this chat, she seemed to close me down and didn't interact therapeutically when I was really wanting to speak about the traumatic event I'd experienced. It sort of hurt.

She contacted me recently asking me to pop in with the baby again; she's really taken a shine with him.

I know more of her personal values now so when I spoke about x,y and z in the past I now know she had her own opinions about these things from what she tells me in these informal chats.

She is a kind soul and a real cheerleader for me, but I miss the only time I had for 'me' each week. Instead our interactions are now very 'equal'. And I have no 'me' time with a very young baby!

Please don't think I'm moaning, I'm blessed t still has contact with me. I just miss my therapist and being her client, not her friend.

[phaset]

Are you considering seeing someone else for therapy to fill the void?

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Raging Quiet

I saw my T on and off for about 9 years.

I know more of her personal values now so when I spoke about x,y and z in the past I now know she had her own opinions about these things from what she tells me in these informal chats.

She is a kind soul and a real cheerleader for me, but I miss the only time I had for 'me' each week. Instead our interactions are now very 'equal'. And I have no 'me' time with a very young baby!

Please don't think I'm moaning, I'm blessed t still has contact with me. I just miss my therapist and being her client, not her friend.

This part illustrates perfectly exactly how a therapist and friend differ (even when we feel close to them) and what happens when that dynamic changes. I know she is just caring but its too bad she did cross that line. She ended up doing something to fill her own needs instead of yours. I know it's not something she did to hurt you, but she kind of did by essentially leaving you without a therapist. I hope you can have her back as just a T or find someone else.

[bounceback]

Is it really possible to go back to a client therapist relationship after having a friendship? I don't see how it would work. Maybe someone who knows could enlighten me.

[Raging Quiet]

Originally Posted by bounceback

Is it really possible to go back to a client therapist relationship after having a friendship? I don't see how it would work. Maybe someone who knows could enlighten me.

Personally, I think not. That's why I miss her as my therapist, even though we are in contact and I will see her soon.

[Bill3]

Is it really possible to go back to a client therapist relationship after having a friendship? I don't see how it would work. Maybe someone who knows could enlighten me.

This is why in many ethics codes forbid Ts from socializing with ex-clients. OP is now without a T that she can call on for therapy if she, for example, were to experience a crisis.

I'm sorry this happened. And I think maybe this is what my t was referring to when she asked me if I felt differently about our t relationship since our in-person visit at the end of May, that she didn't charge me for, and we met in her hotel room & talked for an hour and a half and then walked around the resort she was staying at checking it out. She said, well I know you were willing to pay. I told her honestly that no, I didn't feel differently about it. Yeah, it was a little outside the "normal" therapy structure, but... then again, we kinda do things outside the box anyway, doing phone sessions and all. But I wonder if that's what she was referring to, if I would have trouble going back to the client/therapist dynamic when we sorta stepped out of it temporarily that day. I don't think it's been an issue, we've had 4 phone sessions since I saw her. But we haven't really talked about why she asked me that question, either... I wish you the best, RQ.

[msxyz]

Originally Posted by Bill3

This is why in many ethics codes forbid Ts from socializing with ex-clients. OP is now without a T that she can call on for therapy if she, for example, were to experience a crisis.

I haven't heard of that.

[Soccer mom]

I'm sorry the relationship has changed for you. Can you go back to seeing her as a client?

Thank you for sharing. It helps me since I have thought how nice it would be to have T. as a friend.

[Rose76]

She was "always transparent about her private life." ?? In a therapist, that is not a virtue. A therapist is supposed to be professionally opaque.

The one good thing that I can see coming out of this whole sequence of happenings is that this lady has revealed herself to be most unprofessional, and it's probably good that you've learned this. My own private little theory is that most psych problems boil down to issues of interpersonal relations. The narrative you've just shared is rich in material to be examined by you and a different therapist that could teach you a lot that might be eye opening to you in a broader context.

I don't buy that this lady is just a warm-hearted person wanting to be chums with you when it seemed you would no longer be a client. (Even, if that were 100% true, it would be wrong.) I'm thinking that, maybe, your income level is such that this therapist was looking to do a little social climbing for herself. Please reject that, if it doesn't resonate. Something is missing from this story, IMHO, that you can't fill us in on. I suspect that you give people every benefit of the doubt for having innocent motives, when you might need to become a bit more wary. (Like I say, run this whole narrative by a seasoned, mature therapist . . . maybe someone a good bit older than yourself . . . or any person of mature judgement.)

The series of emails sent to you at the end of your pregnancy were wrong. One email, saying: "hope all goes well." - maybe I can see. But emails in the plural is not okay. I presume you had appropriate professional prenatal support to see you through the pregnancy. No reason for a T to be sort of "following" your pregnancy. No therapist would ever normally assume that a last visit was truly, indeed, a last visit, until - say - maybe a year of not seeing you had gone by. Even then it is still not appropriate to strike up a friendship with a client.

And since when do therapists give away free two hour chats to discuss termination of therapy? I don't know, Raging, the more I think on it, the more I believe this lady has some selfish reason for grooming you to become her friend. In this context, "grooming" is an ugly word, and I use it very deliberatively.

And now you "know more about her personal values?" I'ld venture to say that you don't know the half of it. Hang in there as her friend and you may learn a lot more. And it may be more hurtful/disillusioning than what you've already discovered.

I'm going to further suggest that this therapist knows full well that she's been doing something she ought not to be doing. Her teachers in college and during her supervised clinical internship took no small pains to impress on her that one doesn't do what she is doing. And they weren't vague about it. But she figures you don't know that. (Again, I say: run this story by another therapist - any therapist/counselor . . . even a volunteer on a crisis line.)

I'm sorry you lost what felt like a positive therapeutic relationship. But therapy is all about learning things that you hitherto didn't understand about life. This turn of events may give you the best lesson you were ever going to learn from this particular T. No, you're not whining. You very aptly have recognized that something is not right about this whole pattern of interaction. Furthermore, either she is not all about being a kind soul, or else she is a real dummy with no talent for her job.

When you move away from the therapy relationship into a friendship, the relationship absolutely changes and has to stay changed.

I have remained old, distant friends with my college therapist now for 30 years, but it IS a just a distant friendship. I left knowing and never expecting our relationship to be anything other than friendly. He could no longer be my therapist due to distance, restrictions of his own position with the university, and of course, it was simply time to move on.

It has worked well for us because I never had any expectation of anything other than friendship from the moment I walked out of our last session and graduated. It couldn't be, and I was okay with that. I also had no messy transference stuff with him; he served his role as my therapist appropriately and professionally during those few years, but I never expected more. In fact, I didn't leave thinking we would still be in touch after all these years. That all unfolded actually not therapy-related, but professionally related as my initial career file was through his office (career services for the university), and we corresponded about jobs, etc. originally. Our correspondence just kind of continued from there.

For me, I continued my therapy with other therapists and continued to make progress in therapy and have therapeutic support that way. With my old therapist, we simply keep touch. We talk about our careers, our spouses and kids, our retirement plans (odd to say that is even in the cards for me after all of these years). We keep track of each other like old, distant friends, but we don't do therapy. I have let him know where I am at in my life and therapy in a kind of informative way, but I don't approach it like therapy -- it is simply the same type of sharing I would do with a close friend.

The only way your relationship with your therapist can continue at this point is if you are able to separate from her as your therapist and completely transform the relationship into a casual friendship -- don't expect it to be bff's forever though; that would not be appropriate either.

[Raging Quiet]

Originally Posted by Rose76

She was "always transparent about her private life." ?? In a therapist, that is not a virtue. A therapist is supposed to be professionally opaque.

The one good thing that I can see coming out of this whole sequence of happenings is that this lady has revealed herself to be most unprofessional, and it's probably good that you've learned this. My own private little theory is that most psych problems boil down to issues of interpersonal relations. The narrative you've just shared is rich in material to be examined by you and a different therapist that could teach you a lot that might be eye opening to you in a broader context.

I don't buy that this lady is just a warm-hearted person wanting to be chums with you when it seemed you would no longer be a client. (Even, if that were 100% true, it would be wrong.) I'm thinking that, maybe, your income level is such that this therapist was looking to do a little social climbing for herself. Please reject that, if it doesn't resonate. Something is missing from this story, IMHO, that you can't fill us in on. I suspect that you give people every benefit of the doubt for having innocent motives, when you might need to become a bit more wary. (Like I say, run this whole narrative by a seasoned, mature therapist . . . maybe someone a good bit older than yourself . . . or any person of mature judgement.)

The series of emails sent to you at the end of your pregnancy were wrong. One email, saying: "hope all goes well." - maybe I can see. But emails in the plural is not okay. I presume you had appropriate professional prenatal support to see you through the pregnancy. No reason for a T to be sort of "following" your pregnancy. No therapist would ever normally assume that a last visit was truly, indeed, a last visit, until - say - maybe a year of not seeing you had gone by. Even then it is still not appropriate to strike up a friendship with a client.

And since when do therapists give away free two hour chats to discuss termination of therapy? I don't know, Raging, the more I think on it, the more I believe this lady has some selfish reason for grooming you to become her friend. In this context, "grooming" is an ugly word, and I use it very deliberatively.

And now you "know more about her personal values?" I'ld venture to say that you don't know the half of it. Hang in there as her friend and you may learn a lot more. And it may be more hurtful/disillusioning than what you've already discovered.

I'm going to further suggest that this therapist knows full well that she's been doing something she ought not to be doing. Her teachers in college and during her supervised clinical internship took no small pains to impress on her that one doesn't do what she is doing. And they weren't vague about it. But she figures you don't know that. (Again, I say: run this story by another therapist - any therapist/counselor . . . even a volunteer on a crisis line.)

I'm sorry you lost what felt like a positive therapeutic relationship. But therapy is all about learning things that you hitherto didn't understand about life. This turn of events may give you the best lesson you were ever going to learn from this particular T. No, you're not whining. You very aptly have recognized that something is not right about this whole pattern of interaction. Furthermore, either she is not all about being a kind soul, or else she is a real dummy with no talent for her job.

Thank you. You raise a lot of good points. I have learned from this experience.

I must stress she is in her mid 70s and I get the feeling I was her replacement daughter as she joked she would be a grandmother to my baby. I don't think she groomed me.. I think we just became too comfortable with each other and the boundaries got blurred. It saddens me, it was a huge part of my life for many many years.

I am worried about seeing another t as they all seem to know each other, plus being in the UK we don't have insurance and maternity leave pay is cut a lot. She used to charge me about £10-£15 less than other t's in the city, plus used to give me free or discounted sessions sometimes which was sweet of her.

[Rose76]

Maybe she is a lonely older woman who doesn't have enough family. So she is making you a surrogate daughter. She should know that is wrong. I saw a therapist for a period of 20 years and we were comfortable with each other. But that didn't lead to the melting of appropriate boundaries. Maybe my take on this lady was too dark. In any event, the outcome has been unhappy for you, which is too bad.

I've noticed in my community that, sometimes older therapists charge less, which may reflect that they attract fewer clients and want to hold on to the ones they get.

Maybe you're at a point where you might want to decide that the services of this lady met a need for a period of your life, but it's time to move on now. Perhaps, "being in therapy" is no longer what you most need to do for yourself now. I tended to be a loner, and I think my therapist who I mentioned above took the place of a good friend in my life. During all those years, I was more diligent about "being in therapy" than branching out socially. I think I was kind of spinning my wheels, rather than socially maturing.

A therapist can seem almost like the perfect friend. I remember the satisfaction of having someone be such a good listener to me. Friendships go a lot less smoothly, but they are real relationships. When our relationship with a professional becomes our most important source of affirmation, we should ask ourselves if we are over-relying on that.

A neighbor of mine goes regularly to see a massage therapist. She is a single lady with almost no connection to her family. Her relationship with this masseuse is the most important emotional connection she has. There is something sad about that, as there was something unfortunate about me relying so much on my therapist, when I needed to be heard and affirmed. I believe in therapy for crisis resolution, but I no longer think it is healthy for it to go on and on and on. I do expect that probably the majority of PC members would disagree with me. But I read in threads about how central seeing their T has become in their life, and these seem to be folks who don't have a whole lot going on in the friendship department.

Those office visits with Ts do become overly comfortable, as yours did - for the T, as well as for the client. That's not what they should be about, IMHO. Just the opposite. If we emerge from our therapy sessions feeling relaxed and comforted and refreshed and like we just had some very satisfying "me time," then I have to wonder: What do we think we're accomplishing? Going to a T, I believe, should be a lot more like going to the dentist. Change and personal growth aren't comfortable. They're not brought about by fuzzy, warm encounters with persons who provide us with a lovely experience. Forgive me going off on a tangent about this, and I'll try to stop.

This older woman's connection to you seems to be coming to an end. You liked her and you'll mourn her absence from your life. That's to be expected. Maybe you'll find a T to replace her. On the other hand, maybe you won't. Consider putting the time and energy and commitment that you were investing in therapy into connecting with people in real, actual friendships. You sound like an awfully decent human being. Sometimes I think it's easier for crass people to find a circle of peers than it is for genuinely nice people to find each other. Such is the challenge of life in this world. But your success in doing so is doubly important now. You are now a role model to your child.

I had parents who were nice people who isolated. They had all kind of good reasons for not "getting involved" with other people. That's what they taught me and my sibs. We are all good at avoiding getting entangled with others. It prevents a lot of problems, but I don't recommend it. Relationships are messy and make life more complicated. But they are 95% of what makes life worthwhile. How to have and manage them is the most important thing parents can teach their children, IMHO. Instead, I think a lot of us, incuding many of the best of us, are evolving a culture of "being in therapy" and making it a substitute for living connected to others and deriving affirmation from people who are not "professional affirmers."

You've spent "many many years" ( "a huge part of your life") in sessions with this kindly, "sweet" older lady. By now, you've gotten what there is to get out of that. Move on, which you are probably more competent to do than lots of people around you. Love and friendships are meant to be eternal; therapy isn't.

[Raging Quiet]

Thank you, your response has really resonated with me. I appreciate all your advice and support Rose. x