[musinglizzy]

I had a session on Thursday that was a bit sad/triggering to me, and it really made me think about my situation, many of you know the story, so I'm not going to repeat it here.

Since then, I have contacted a couple of local Ts that I thought would be a good match for me initially. I was honest with them, about what I'm being treated for, and why I am struggling so much about staying with my T. But for both of them, I disclosed that in my second Email to them. Both of them seemed eager to work with me, until I shared that second Email. One even set up a phone consult for Monday. But once I shared the story of my T, they both retreated. One actually said "My getting involved in this situation wouldn't be a good idea." Then said she wasn't in the position to say what's unethical, what's not, etc, but that this was a "concerning relationship."

I did not share my T's name, nor give any identifying information, and have no intention to do so. They are also in a large city, so doubtful either of them retreated because my T consulted with them about me.

So, I don't really want to throw in any surprises, but at the same time I want a potential T to know my story. I would not want to get in with a new T, and have them retreat after I have a few sessions under my belt, so I wanted to be honest up front. Am I shooting myself in the foot by doing it this way? Perhaps by sharing this up front I'm sabotaging myself? Giving them red flags?

I assume they wish to choose not to get involved with someone who already has issues with their therapist, because they think the same will happen to them. Actually, I told them I just need consistent boundaries. I need to be able to know that, for example, if they don't touch/hug, that they don't sway from that, ever. I don't want to experience more being "taken away," so being consistent from the beginning, whatever that may be, would be helpful to me.

But it kinda seems that if I'm honest up front, I will have a more difficult time finding someone willing to work with me. These two are not counting the "online/Email therapists" who also rejected me.

It's hard to even think about leaving my T. So finding that the ones I have contacted don't want to work with me is tough. Should I not be honest up front?

[stopdog]

Absolute honesty is, in my opinion, often very over-rated. I would simply tell them I was looking for a new one without detail etc.

[Crescent Moon]

Since what you've tried hasn't worked, maybe you could terminate therapy with the one you're seeing now, and then interview potential therapists with the idea of 'I've terminated therapy with a therapist who was no longer helping me, and now I am looking for one interested in working with .... .... ....

If you go in talking about having been wronged by another therapist, especially if you are still seeing that therapist, I'd guess most new therapists would be reluctant to get in the middle of that. However... if you go in needing help with emotional pain, and they eventually find out you came out of a bad relationship, they are likely to be ok.

That's how it worked for me. I started seeing my current therapist while still in therapy with a toxic therapist. I did not tell either that I was seeing another. I was in so much pain tho, that eventually my new one said 'something is going on that you aren't telling me about, and I can't help you if you don't tell me.'. It took a while, but I finally told her what happened. She was at first very conflicted. She had compassion for me, bit was very worried about me seeing two of them. She wondered if my pain was because I was being pulled by two different therapy styles and two different loyalties. It bothered her that I had been hiding something that significant. She urged me to terminate with the other. I tried, but was battling so much inside that I wasn't doing well with it. The other one still didn't know. So my new therapist finally worked out a deal with me that I would tell her anytime I saw the other. She really did work with me on it, and I think if I had walked in and told her the first day what was going on that she would have not taken me. But by the time it came out, she knew me and was invested. She had already figured out my attachment issues and believed it played a role. Mainly, she knew that my 'hiding' something important wasn't because I was trying to manipulate her... it was because of a combination of attachment issues and toxic therapy that had caused an internal collapse of sorts. She believed she could help me.... and she did. It has been an amazing experience to come out of all that on top.

[nessaea]

I am sorry you for dealing with this. I don't know your whole story (I took a few minutes to go back and get caught up a bit) but it sounds rough.

I have to agree with Crescent Moon - I think it might be in your best interest to terminate with your current T and then look for someone new. I think, like you mentioned, it is hurting your search for a new T once they find out about your current one. I can imagine they just don't want to step on toes or get involved in a difficult situation. But if you come to them and just talk about your issues, the problems with your previous T being one of them, then it might be easier.

I would, however, suggest that you DO be honest upfront. It is not helpful to you, your potential Ts, or your therapeutic relationship with them if you are not honest, especially about something this significant. I know it is hard, but it really is the best choice!

Keep us posted on how you are doing, and how the search goes!

*Hugs*

~Ness

[musinglizzy]

Thanks for the replies. I have had a rough year....and I thought about just terminating and finding a new one, but I don't think it's in my best interest to be without a therapist at all, and I don't know how long the process would take. I don't know if my insurance would cover two therapists anyway, and can't afford to pay out of pocket, so what I would do is find a therapist, have a consult with that therapist, then drop the first one, with a session with the second one already scheduled.

By the way, I did make it clear to both of them that I was looking for a NEW therapist, with intentions on leaving the old one.

[atisketatasket]

I think stopdog is right, you don't need to be totally honest. It's commendable that you are, of course, but you could also just make it clear up front that you need consistent boundaries without explaining why. Unless you actually want the second therapist's focus to be on the relationship with the first one, and not the reasons you sought therapy out in the first place, I don't see that they need to know upfront.

And by the way I think it's an excellent idea to leave the first one. Even seriously considering the possibility is great.

[musinglizzy]

I am a very honest person, I don't like throwing in a surprise here and there if I can help it. I figured it was important to share because I have a feeling leaving my T will be very hard, and may be something I talk about in therapy until I get over it. But, like I said, I think it's sabotaging me. Sucks too, the second one I contacted, the one who wrote me back more thoroughly, seemed like such a good match for me, and her location was great. But I've gone and screwed that up!

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

I am a very honest person, I don't like throwing in a surprise here and there if I can help it. I figured it was important to share because I have a feeling leaving my T will be very hard, and may be something I talk about in therapy until I get over it. But, like I said, I think it's sabotaging me. Sucks too, the second one I contacted, the one who wrote me back more thoroughly, seemed like such a good match for me, and her location was great. But I've gone and screwed that up!

You haven't screwed anything up as far as I can see. It's your current therapist who has. And as an aside the fact that one of these potential therapists would go so far as to call it a "concerning relationship" should reenforce that idea.

[ruh roh]

I'm sorry you had such an upsetting session last week. It might help to first decide what you are going to do about the current therapist, because even though you've told the others that you want a new one, it might not be coming through (sort of like girlfriends complaining about a cheater that you know they will still stay with). It will help you be clear with yourself, for one thing, in what you're looking for with a new therapist. You need to deal with the hurt and rejection over this one, so I understand why you're being up front with the others. I would do the same, even though it's a double-edged sword.

When my last therapist moved, I told everyone I consulted with on the phone or in person that the way it ended had caused me some problems, and that I was also looking for long term therapy. I've read on here not to do that, though I'm not sure why. I'm glad I was up front with everyone I spoke to. My current therapist cringed over some things I shared about the previous therapist and said she was reluctant to comment, but once she got to know me, she did not shy away from it at all. So I think it's a bit of a balance how you seek help and what you disclose right away. But for sure, I understand and agree with wanting to be clear, at least in general terms, why you're looking for a new therapist. I would want to weed out the company soldiers and not bother with the ones who are blindly loyal to others in their profession.

I also wonder if a crisis line could give you some referrals specific to therapists who are willing to work with someone who's been hurt by therapy?

I'm glad you're looking for help and that you're getting some indication that the nature of your current relationship with a therapist is not healthy.

[musinglizzy]

Thank you ruh roh. Oh yes, I know our relationship is not healthy....well, the hard part is that she finally realized, I think, that she was in too deep, and put up her walls to enforce our "strictly therapeutic relationship," which she had not enforced much before. I think this will always be an elephant in the room, so to speak. But yes, leaving would be hard... but I'm taking steps, I guess.

[Crescent Moon]

I wonder if you could search for a therapist that specializes in therapeutic ruptures. I've heard that such therapists exist, used by a therapist & client to kind of mediate resolution. I've read about them, and that they also take clients who have been damaged by therapy. They are experienced, have done a lot of supervision of other therapists, and would likely not be afraid to take you on.

If there is a university around where you are that has a masters/doctoral program for psychology/social work etc., that might be a good place to check. With whoever is in charge. You wouldn't be asking that person to take you on, but you could tell that person that you are looking for a therapist to help you recover from a damaged therapeutic relationship, and they may be the one to know who does that kind of thing.

Just a thought

I was in a similar situation to you when I found T2 (I scheduled with him before I even told T1 I wanted a break) and I just asked him if I could make an appointment with him. I didn't give him any personal information other than my name. He was fine with it, and worked with me while I was on a break from T1 no problem. (I ultimately terminated with T1 after 3 months)

[InRealLife45]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

I had a session on Thursday that was a bit sad/triggering to me, and it really made me think about my situation, many of you know the story, so I'm not going to repeat it here.

Since then, I have contacted a couple of local Ts that I thought would be a good match for me initially. I was honest with them, about what I'm being treated for, and why I am struggling so much about staying with my T. But for both of them, I disclosed that in my second Email to them. Both of them seemed eager to work with me, until I shared that second Email. One even set up a phone consult for Monday. But once I shared the story of my T, they both retreated. One actually said "My getting involved in this situation wouldn't be a good idea." Then said she wasn't in the position to say what's unethical, what's not, etc, but that this was a "concerning relationship."

I did not share my T's name, nor give any identifying information, and have no intention to do so. They are also in a large city, so doubtful either of them retreated because my T consulted with them about me.

So, I don't really want to throw in any surprises, but at the same time I want a potential T to know my story. I would not want to get in with a new T, and have them retreat after I have a few sessions under my belt, so I wanted to be honest up front. Am I shooting myself in the foot by doing it this way? Perhaps by sharing this up front I'm sabotaging myself? Giving them red flags?

I assume they wish to choose not to get involved with someone who already has issues with their therapist, because they think the same will happen to them. Actually, I told them I just need consistent boundaries. I need to be able to know that, for example, if they don't touch/hug, that they don't sway from that, ever. I don't want to experience more being "taken away," so being consistent from the beginning, whatever that may be, would be helpful to me.

But it kinda seems that if I'm honest up front, I will have a more difficult time finding someone willing to work with me. These two are not counting the "online/Email therapists" who also rejected me.

It's hard to even think about leaving my T. So finding that the ones I have contacted don't want to work with me is tough. Should I not be honest up front?

its bc you are still seeing her.

when you call, feel free to tell them about her, but do so in the past tense. DO NOT tell them you still see her.

its unethical to see a client who already has a T, no matter how bad a fit it may be. Say you had a bad experience and are looking for a new t/healthier therapeutic relationship.

[divine1966]

They don't want to see you because you have a current therapist whom you unhappy with. I think if you stop with old t and seek new one it would be easier to find a t

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[musinglizzy]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I never really asked anyone how they switched therapists.... if they quit, then found a new one, or if they found a new one, then quit. I was trying to do the latter, so I wouldn't be without a T at all. But sometimes I think maybe I'd be better off without therapy anyway. Who knows....I guess I assumed it wasn't all that uncommon to do it the way I was considering doing it. Although I've learned that sharing this rupture may not be a good idea right off the bat.

[unaluna]

If "we" are being honest - you are putting restrictions on how the new ts can do their jobs. You tell them, "dont ever do this to me, or else." Or else what? Like they are a restaurant and you dont want any pepper on your food. It may seem reasonable to you to ask for this one thing, but to me it seems like walking in with a chip on your shoulder. As if its ALL ABOUT pepper. Youre showing that you dont understand that its not all about pepper. I think you might have a better chance if you said she made a mistake and refused to apologize. Therapy is about rupture AND repair. The chef can remake a dish. If you refuse to work with someone who can make a mistake, then its you who are declining to work with ts, not the other way around.

[ruh roh]

Hey hankster, I don't think musing said anything close to what you described. I think she just told them that she wants consistent boundaries. It's a reasonable request. Some therapists don't operate that way and she has a right to find out before she continues.

I think I may have told my current therapist I don't want to be practiced on or effed up by a therapist. She didn't blink or back off; in fact, she was very kind about it and understood what I was asking for.

I guess I've just never given my therapists much detail about me until we actually sat down and talked. I wasn't hiding anything; I just felt that in session was the appropriate time to have those discussions.

I would just tell a prospective therapist that I was looking for therapy support and would like to meet them. It seems like you are looking for their approval which seems backwards to me. I always go into therapy with the intent that they were going to have to meet my approval, but I generally didn't make that decision until we had had face-to-face discussions. The only upfront information they might get about me was that I was dealing with depression and was looking for therapy support. The rest came later.

[ruh roh]

Just to clarify: I only got specific once I was in therapy, not over the phone. On the phone, I was more general, but included the info that my previous therapist moved and I was having problems around all of that and the way it happened. Her response on the phone showed me that she understood. Once I'd seen her, after a month or so, is when I was much more clear.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

Hey hankster, I don't think musing said anything close to what you described. I think she just told them that she wants consistent boundaries. It's a reasonable request. Some therapists don't operate that way and she has a right to find out before she continues.

Consistent boundaries are fine. But if a boundary needs to change as the relationship changes, then cant a new line be drawn? Or is a t supposed to keep the original boundary forever, just because? No phone calls ever, or a phone call is okay under when someone close dies, for example. This is why im saying its not the boundary that was the problem, it was the lack of a good enough apology. Life happens.

If a t cant ever apologize enough, then their role in your life is just to be your scapegoat, your whipping boy. Who wants to sign up for that? Meanwhile your cheating h or whoever gets away with murder and you make no changes in your life, just crab at the t every week? Im not saying thats what is going on here, but that might be what it looks like to prospective ts. If thats what it looks like, then how does lizzy present it better? So she gets what she wants, a new t.

[ruh roh]

I think the issue is that her therapist never apologized.

I'll step out of it and let musing speak for herself. I really do feel for her and think she's asking for the right things.

[stopdog]

I do see two at the same time. They each know or should know - I told them but other than that we never talk about it. I never mention one to the other. The second did ask if I knew what worked and what did not for me, I told her as I knew it and that is the one that is calm to see. Neither told me I could not do so nor mentioned ethics or anything else. I don't see it as their business really as long as I can afford it. Had either objected I would have found another or kept going letting them think I no longer saw the other. Not a big deal to me whether they like it or not.
I see it as one definitely gets to tell them what works and what does not and what one will endure from one of them and what one will not. I am fine if they say they can't deal with it after I lay it out - but I do not believe a client should go turn themselves over to one of those guys without some boundaries of the client's established. If they are used as a whipping boy - well not a problem and I see that as a perfectly fine use for one of them.

[unaluna]

Yeah im sorry if i sound like a crab. Ive had ts not get back to me and its a horrible feeling, youre like geez do i sound that nuts in just 30 seconds on the phone?

[musinglizzy]

I am not asking for my current T to change her boundaries for me. I'm not asking anyone else to change their boundaries for me. I am asking for consistent boundaries, or if they can't be, lets at least talk about them. My current T changes boundaries, then just waits for me to notice. I don't want that. I want to be in on the conversation. I don't want to spend my time in therapy looking for changes in boundaries. I want to spend my time in therapy working on therapy.

I'm not a spoiled brat throwing a hissy fit because my T won't change for me. I have been working very hard for the past 5 months, trying to move past this. By that, I mean trust her. Trust that if I tell her something, she's not going to make me feel like I'm being punished for disclosing things to her. I have given her the biggest disclosures ever in the past 5 months, trying to get back into the swing of things. One of them was something I never intended to tell anyone, ever. But I put myself out there, trying to trust her again, trying to feel connected, and it's just not there.

I want a T who, if they say something, won't turn around and do the opposite. That's what my T has done with me. I love my T. Don't get me wrong. I do. This is not easy for me. I will miss her. My T has done a lot for me. But she also lost my trust, and I've been fighting like hell to get that back. It's just not working.

Thanks for the perspective, it is helpful to see how I may be coming across without intending to. One of the T's told me I could contact her licensing board. I don't want to. I don't want to cause any trouble for anyone. And I take blame for my thoughts, knowing that without them, I may see things differently. My T may or may not have done something wrong ethically, I don't know. What I do know is how I feel about it, and it's not going away. Even after 5 months. If she has something on her mind, I want her to say it. Not just act on it and wait for me to notice. I don't think that's too much to ask. I am not bringing this up in therapy anymore at all. I do not wish to keep "whipping" her. In fact, I think I spent three sessions total on this subject. At twice a week, that's not really a lot. I have continued on with my therapy, been talking about my FEEEEELINGS and FEEEEELING them, have been doing my homework, been telling her what's going on in my life from day to day, so I'm not sitting there, uncooperative or lost. I'm trying to do the work. We have accomplished a lot in the last 5 months since our rupture, but I'm tired of being on guard, questioning her in my head, trying to read her mind. It's too much work, but it's something I can't seem to stop.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I think the issue is that her therapist never apologized.

I'll step out of it and let musing speak for herself. I really do feel for her and think she's asking for the right things.

Thank you ruh roh. I appreciate you trying to explain on my behalf while I was away from the computer. You are right on!