[Bill3]

My T wants me to have compassion for, and forgive, my mother. T acknowledges my mother's shortcomings but says that my mother must have done a lot of good parenting for me because I myself have been successful at various things.

My mother's narcissism, alcohol abuse, and explosive anger disrupted my childhood and affect me to this day. My T, though, wants me to have compassion, and forgive, because something abusive must have happened to my mother in her childhood, and therefore my mother was doing the best that she could when she raised me.

I would be most interested in your thoughts. Thank you very much!

[growlycat]

Thanks for this Bill. I struggle with this with my dad for different reasons. How do you forgive someone, especially if they don't feel remorse? I find it much easier to forgive when the other person recognizes wrongdoing.

I try to keep my dad in my life, but in a minimal way so he can't hurt me anymore (he still manages to.)

I try to focus on things and people that move me forward and not those that hold me back. I do find it hard not to get consumed by the anger though.

Is your mom still alive? If so do you keep in touch?

[Bill3]

@growlycat: Thanks for your response. My mother died in 1990.

[SkyscraperMeow]

You can't tell someone to have compassion for anyone. You can't mandate forgiveness.

Also, the logic does not flow that she must have been good occasionally just because you have done well in some areas. That's taking the credit for your hard work and giving it to your mother, which I find offensive in the extreme.

Some of us survive and thrive in spite of, not because of the parenting we received.

I'd tell your therapist to shove it, honestly.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by Bill3

@growlycat: Thanks for your response. My mother died in 1990.

I am so sorry.

You know, I'm not so sure if forgiveness is necessary. I think if you build a life surrounded by people who care about you, the past can fade out somewhat to the background.

Sounds like hard, painful work you are doing with your T. A brave thing to tackle.

A T doesn't normally or shouldn't normally tell you how to think or be.
I've talked about forgiveness for my mother. That's come from me, not T. And T says, yes there are reasons why she was like she was. But I was the child. It was her responsibility to be there for me, not the other way around

[ScarletPimpernel]

I was able to forgive my mom, but it took a lot of work to get there. I worked on it for 3 yrs in therapy. I did have to find compassion for her in order to forgive her. I knew she was severely abused in her childhood. After I found the compassion, I wrote my mom a letter expressing everything I experienced and felt from her growing up. My mom is still alive so that probably made things easier. I actually sat down with her and read the letter. We talked about it, and both agreed to start fresh and try to develop a new relationship. Overtime, I saw her making a real effort, and that's when I finally forgave her.

But I will never forget what she put me through. And I will not take responsibility for her actions. Like Mouse said, it was her responsibility to be there for me no matter what her circumstances were. She chose to be a mother. It's her responsibility.

[ThingWithFeathers]

That's a big ask from your t. Both your compassion and forgiveness are yours to give, no one can tell you what to do with those very personal things. Would you feel comfortable asking t about this 'agenda' of hers. How important are compassion and forgiveness for you in regard to your mother?

I'm sorry for your loss - it must be very hard to reconcile your emotions and the inability to talk to your mother about it

[JaneTennison1]

I told ex T that I was not in a place of forgiveness and compassion and that she should not force this on me. I was not ready to make nice and any attempts to do so would lead me to believe she was on my father's "side" causing me to be peed off.

I would say tell her you are not in that place and that her pushing for that or telling you what you should feel about your mother's actions is not helpful.

[divine1966]

I am sorry. My t never told me i have to forgive anything. She said that I have to accept how my parents are and accept that they are emotionally unhealthy people and I should stop expecting them to change. That helped me. She also said its ok to limit my interaction with toxic family. No need to completely cut them of but keep it to a minimum. She also says to not give too much power to them by being upset over things they say or do.

If my t started telling me about forgiveness I would have hard time with it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My T has a never told me to forgive.

Usually I'm the one beating myself up about how the socially-sanctioned thing is to "forgive" and "not be bitter".

[Bill3]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I don't feel T insisting that I have compassion or forgive. She favors these, though, because she thinks they will make things easier for me, she thinks they will help me release a burden of resentment and dissatisfaction.

I don't feel aware of such a burden on a daily basis. However, it can flare up. It flared up recently when I discovered the Parental Bonding Instrument, http://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/...Instrument.pdf. This instrument allows one to assess parental caring behavior on the one hand, and parental overprotection/control on the other. I was shocked and hurt anew to see how low my mother scored on the measure of caring. She fell in the "affectionless control" category. Far, far within that category.

Having compassion for them is how I have stayed human. I do think forgiveness FOR ME is an ongoing process. I still have to deal with some abuse, but it is at a distance now and I let it go mostly.

Personally, I don't see it as a black and white yes/ no, I forgive/ don't situation. Like so many things which involve our pasts and feelings (and if our parents had access to therapy, no doubt what they may/ may not be advised, based on their own pasts), it's more dynamic and changeable. Both my parents had their flaws in bringing me up and yes, they created problems for me too. And whilst I realise they had their challenges - and so on, back in our family tree - I accept them, forgive them, but more to the point, I am responsible for my own state of mind and wellbeing now. Not anyone else. That's hard but it feels right. But these are my decisions and thoughts and feelings, which my T has been a companion on my journey towards. It's not something she encouraged me to do. It's something she kept me company on. Very best of luck to you. And BTW my dad died in 2005 and he's the one relationship I struggled with the most. It takes the time it takes for you. We're all different.

[Petra5ed]

In a tricky way I think having compassion for an abuser forces you to see things from a bit healthier perspective, i.e. to realize what they did to you was not personal, but rather just an aspect of their own issues. For example, if she is mentally ill and has major problems, then it cant also be "my fault" that mom abused me. I think it's true that looking at things with the correct compassionate mindset can allow you to start to let go of some of the resentment.

In theory it makes sense, but in practice it is difficult to do. The nice thing about resentment is it buffers us from feeling the psychological grief and anguish around the abuse. So one theory could say, so long as you are seething in resentment, it's likely you haven't "processed" the emotional pain around your abuse. Anger is just a cover up for deep hurt is what I'm saying.

It sounds like your therapist just wants you to mourn the reality of it, and that's hard to do. Most of us want to avoid looking at unpleasant truths.

[ruh roh]

The part that bothers me the most is your therapist's opinion that your mother must have "done a lot of good parenting" based on what you've been able to accomplish and be in life. It honestly feels like an abuser's excuse. In fact, my mother often says that she must have done something right when she considers how I turned out, ignoring all the pain and suffering I've been through and continue to endure. It's deeply disturbing.

That said, I found peace with my mother because I wanted to be a different kind of person, but no therapist ever encouraged that; in fact, most encouraged no contact. It took a while for the one I see now to understand what I was doing and to appreciate the benefit that acceptance (I would choose that over forgiveness) has for me.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by Bill3

My T wants me to have compassion for, and forgive, my mother. T acknowledges my mother's shortcomings but says that my mother must have done a lot of good parenting for me because I myself have been successful at various things.

My mother's narcissism, alcohol abuse, and explosive anger disrupted my childhood and affect me to this day. My T, though, wants me to have compassion, and forgive, because something abusive must have happened to my mother in her childhood, and therefore my mother was doing the best that she could when she raised me.

I would be most interested in your thoughts. Thank you very much!

My situation is similar in terms of an abusive mother and I'm sure my mother had a difficult upbringing herself from the little I know. I've heard that advice too, about forgiveness and compassion, though thankfully not from my current therapist. I think what you "should" do, is have and honor the feelings you have. I believe expressing and respecting those feelings is the key to progress, clarity, freedom. I don't think there's a goal in terms of transforming the feelings, rather that it's important to just acknowledge them and let them do what they will.

In my personal work, acknowledging that my mother has a mental illness is helpful as an explanation, not an excuse. I too have a mental illness, and am a mother, but I sought treatment and am accountable for my actions, unlike my mother. I find that my feelings about her are somewhat like the weather, they shift at times and I think that's a good sign. I'm not locked in hate, or despair or false nonchalance. But I also feel lots of feelings, from sadness to anger to dismay to thankfulness to acceptance. No mother really, is black and white bad or good, and no other human is either in my experience. My mother did feed me, clothe me, do her best by me, but her best was deeply flawed. So, I can hold both gratitude and loathing at times- being open to the ambiguity has actually been a great part of my healing.

Bottom line, in my experience, neither forgiveness or compassion are necessary for healing, progress, happiness. I believe it's a very personal process and its just important to let it happen naturally, not push toward anyone else's idea of a goal.

[JaneTennison1]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

The part that bothers me the most is your therapist's opinion that your mother must have "done a lot of good parenting" based on what you've been able to accomplish and be in life. It honestly feels like an abuser's excuse. In fact, my mother often says that she must have done something right when she considers how I turned out, ignoring all the pain and suffering I've been through and continue to endure. It's deeply disturbing.

That said, I found peace with my mother because I wanted to be a different kind of person, but no therapist ever encouraged that; in fact, most encouraged no contact. It took a while for the one I see now to understand what I was doing and to appreciate the benefit that acceptance (I would choose that over forgiveness) has for me.

I agree. Just because you turned out well does not mean your mum must have had any hand in it. We can be great in spite of hard times.

[msxyz]

That angers me on your behalf, but I'm in general not big on the whole "you must forgive to move on" kind. No, you don't need to forgive. It's totally fine not to.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I am also struggling with this. I don't know how to forgive my parents for what they put me through that has screwed me up as an adult.

[unaluna]

I felt a lot more compassion today when i tried on her fur coat - mine! (Like the finding nemo seagulls )

I kept finding MY things at her house, as well as gifts i had given her, and im like - how was i a bad daughter? Why didnt she like me? I was pretty nice to her. But she was just a bottomless pit of want and not enough and not good enough. Idk.

Something that has helped me with my feelings towards my mother is to become more aware of the good things that she did for me. I had previously tended to focus on the bad things, because those are the things that caused problems that I'm still struggling with today.

Adding gratitude for and acknowledgement of the good things that she did for me to the mental place that is "My Thoughts About My Mother" has helped to take some of the sting out of that topic.

Bill, unless you have some way to learn or already know what did happen to your mother during her childhood, assuming that something abusive "must" have happened to your mother seems pretty unsatisfactory.

For me, it was only through learning more about what my mother's childhood was actually like that helped me to have compassion for her and to see why she was the way she was.

If my mother had died 25 years ago, I think I might choose to just work on my problems and not worry too much about forgiveness, unless I found myself full of bitterness towards my mother or constantly thinking about her. If I was unable to get past that kind of feelings, then I might try to learn more about my mother and her upbringing if possible, and try for compassion.

[junkDNA]

i think my problem is that i forgive my mom and dad too much

no one has ever asked me to forgive. like, if my T asked me to forgive my former T i would prob slap him, no joke

Personally, I think that there is no need to forgive true cases of abuse. By that, I mean that if someone simply lost their cool at certain points, they could be forgiven. If they seem to love you and care about you, I think forgiveness would be necessary. If there is no love or support and it seems that the overall climate is simply tension and hatred, just get away from the whole mix in entirety. Forgiving people like that is just feeding into their plans to undermine your sense of being. Additionally, there is no need to forgive if you were ever physically put in danger.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by Leah123

, but her best was deeply flawed. So, I can hold both gratitude and loathing at times- being open to the ambiguity has actually been a great part of my healing.

Bottom line, in my experience, neither forgiveness or compassion are necessary for healing, progress, happiness. I believe it's a very personal process and its just important to let it happen naturally, not push toward anyone else's idea of a goal.

This! It can be freeing to view them as a whole picture. Yet, there's nothing wrong, per se, about having moments of just looking back, reflecting why, why did that happen, an reexamining from a fresh outlook. Forgiveness, as I understand it, is about forgiving ourselves. Maybe for personalizing any given moment. Dealing with my quasi estranged npd father in the here and now, has shined a light on my past in ways I wasn't expecting nor planning. Gave me clarity on some of the harbored anger I had towards my mother who's been gone since 2010.
I can understand his own upbringing, I am now seeing clearer where his illness exists. I won't excuse it. I accept he's a toxic presence in my life. My first therapist in childhood said, "It's not your fault." I've transcended that to encompass the totality of that divorce experience and applied it to each hurt, including the present. My Pdoc a couple of years ago, said, "He had choices." And applied that, as well.
Does compassion come with an air of judgement in these cases? That's where I'm at, right now.