[peaches100]

I hope somebody can give me some advice. I badly, badly need it!

I have been in therapy for many years with a great therapist and have made lots of progress. But the one thing that has never gone away is my intense attachment to her, and my wish that she could love me like a mom. I had a lot of emotional neglect as a child. My parents weren't affectionate and didn't spend much time with me. They didn't really want kids and ended up with them accidentally. My dad always seemed irritated at having me around and didn't interact much with me unless he was angry with me or had too much to drink, in which case he would make fun of me, sometimes until I cried. My mom was more interested in her job than in being a mom. My sister and I were left alone a lot and pretty much allowed to do whatever we wanted to without direction. We also had to mainly handle our problems ourselves.

I grew up feeling pretty darn independent and like I didn't need anybody to lean on. But all that changed when I had my breakdown several years back. When it happened, it seemed to unleash all of the hurts, disappointments, fears, and feelings of abandonment I had as a child growing up. I never felt that my parents really loved me.

Anyway, therapy has cast a light on all that old pain and those old needs. I have found myself feeling intensely like I need the therapy relationship to provide what I couldn't have with my mom. But while my t is great and helpful, she can't give me the sort of love and attention and support that I feel like I need when all of the old horrible emotions break loose! It's hard to keep all of those feelings in the confines of the therapy hour and not have contact with her at any other time (aside from the occasional email). She has been teaching me coping skills, which help some. But they don't get rid of that huge empty painful hole inside.

I know the goal is to learn to love myself and fill up that empty hole inside. But I've been working on it for a long time now, and it just is not happening! I don't feel like a loving parent towards myself. And those feelings of needing a mom to love and protective me are not going away.

What should I do? I'm starting to feel desperate here. I know my t can't be my mom. But if it is true that the therapy relationship can't replace what was missing in the past, then why keep delving into the past and stirring up the pain? I can't deal with it.

Peaches

[Leah123]

Have you focused on creating a meaningful present day life? I find that to be one of the most healing, helpful steps. Things like volunteering, finding meaningful work, creating a community of people who share my interests- those things ease the pain a lot. I find it's also really important to create a patchwork quilt of maternal influences, so you can draw on memories of other helpful maternal figures in your life, like teachers, and also feminine spirituality, maybe "adopt" a group of seniors to knit with, etc. I think at a certain point, once you've done the internal work and learn how to parent yourself some, it's about being in the external world, doing that most maternal of things, which is creating. I also find it's helpful to reflect on what I gained, what I became because of that hole, actually. I wouldn't wish it on myself, but in addition to the wounds, it shaped me in some wonderful, powerful ways. I am more now than I would have been in some ways.

I think mindfulness of all these things-- write them down to be sure you're giving them due attention- the positives and the maternal influences, small ones, to help hold onto them better-- helps.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Have you focused on creating a meaningful present day life? I find that to be one of the most healing, helpful steps. Things like volunteering, finding meaningful work, creating a community of people who share my interests- those things ease the pain a lot. I find it's also really important to create a patchwork quilt of maternal influences, so you can draw on memories of other helpful maternal figures in your life, like teachers, and also feminine spirituality, maybe "adopt" a group of seniors to knit with, etc. I think at a certain point, once you've done the internal work and learn how to parent yourself some, it's about being in the external world, doing that most maternal of things, which is creating. I also find it's helpful to reflect on what I gained, what I became because of that hole, actually. I wouldn't wish it on myself, but in addition to the wounds, it shaped me in some wonderful, powerful ways. I am more now than I would have been in some ways.

I think mindfulness of all these things-- write them down to be sure you're giving them due attention- the positives and the maternal influences, small ones, to help hold onto them better-- helps.

Leah,

Thank you for these tips. I am going to print out what you said and work on trying them. At this point in my therapy, I just feel that my t and I are going around in circles. I've got to do something different!!!

She's a great t, but she tends to be psychoanalytically or psychodynamically oriented, so she focuses mostly on past trauma and how it gets triggered in the present and makes my life difficult. The problem with that is that this kind of focus on the past dredges up way too much pain and need, which the therapy relationship is not designed to fill! Unless I have the skills to cope with that kind of internal emotional pain, I don't want to keep focusing in therapy on the past. I end up feeling completely emotionally overwhelmed, like a scared child who is in danger and needs to be rescued - with my t sitting by the sidelines giving encouraging words, but it is not nearly enough to pull me out of that mental state or to soothe myself and reduce the pain.

My t has been good about teaching me coping skills like DBT, visualization, etc. It should be good enough, then, for me to deal with the emotional pain that gets triggered in therapy. But it isn't enough! Time and time again, the level of pain that arises exceeds any coping skills I have. What ends up happening in the therapy room is that I go away feeling like I have just relived my old abuses. I feel retraumatized, and the bad feelings sometimes last for anywhere from 2 hours to several days,

I understand that my t does not want to make me more dependent on her, so she has to gauge just how much she should become involved in trying to soothe me. I get that. But if she is going to limit her participation during those painful therapy exercises, then she needs to make sure that she does not permit me to become too overwhelmed emotionally by the experience, so that I feel retraumatized all over again. This has been a CONTINUAL problem in our work together. When this happens, I tell my t that I do not want to talk about the past traumas, that they are too upsetting, and I want to focus elsewhere. But she insists that avoiding it is harmful because those bad experiences of the past continue to influence my daily life in a negative way. She IS correct about that.

So anyway, I apologize for getting so wordy. Thanks again for your suggestions!!

[Soccer mom]

I can completely relate. I too was very independent and told T1 that I didn't need anyone or anything. "Need" was a 4 letter word. Really, I felt good about life in general. No, I wasn't very close to anyone but I was fine. When all those needs showed up after my mom died, I was completely overwhelmed and, I think, transferred my loss onto my T. It was a year long battle of having a need, realizing T. can't satisfy it, realizing it's because my mom didn't give it to me and crying. I think it was fed by the intense transference or vice versa.

My T. and I terminated and I keep thinking the same thing - why go back into the past and stir it all up when nothing is going to happen. I thought I had grieved enough. Now I only get upset every once in awhile but my T's actions used to cause it. I think it's ok to have some of the needs as long as you know that they might always be a need. I think therapists can satisfy some - listening, giving advice, being connected with you but only to a certain point.

My next T. has experience with trauma and seems to feel she knows how to process the transference which was fueled by my needs. So, I don't really have an answer for you except that I'm hoping switching T's helps. Perhaps I will want them again from the next T. but I'm hopeful I won't. She is very different from my mom and old T. so I hope that she will treat my needs differently and I will get a little more of what I need and process what I won't.

I would talk to your T. about it. Mine said that she can't give me my needs so there will be a combination of grieving what I never got and finding it in other people. Different relationships can give us different things. I have some friends who are great at listening, others who are affectionate, some who are verbally reassuring, etc. Perhaps in therapy we are looking for ONE person to fill our needs when many could in real life. Hmmm, lightbulb moment for me.

[Soccer mom]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Leah,

Thank you for these tips. I am going to print out what you said and work on trying them. At this point in my therapy, I just feel that my t and I are going around in circles. I've got to do something different!!!

She's a great t, but she tends to be psychoanalytically or psychodynamically oriented, so she focuses mostly on past trauma and how it gets triggered in the present and makes my life difficult. The problem with that is that this kind of focus on the past dredges up way too much pain and need, which the therapy relationship is not designed to fill! Unless I have the skills to cope with that kind of internal emotional pain, I don't want to keep focusing in therapy on the past. I end up feeling completely emotionally overwhelmed, like a scared child who is in danger and needs to be rescued - with my t sitting by the sidelines giving encouraging words, but it is not nearly enough to pull me out of that mental state or to soothe myself and reduce the pain.

My t has been good about teaching me coping skills like DBT, visualization, etc. It should be good enough, then, for me to deal with the emotional pain that gets triggered in therapy. But it isn't enough! Time and time again, the level of pain that arises exceeds any coping skills I have. What ends up happening in the therapy room is that I go away feeling like I have just relived my old abuses. I feel retraumatized, and the bad feelings sometimes last for anywhere from 2 hours to several days,

I understand that my t does not want to make me more dependent on her, so she has to gauge just how much she should become involved in trying to soothe me. I get that. But if she is going to limit her participation during those painful therapy exercises, then she needs to make sure that she does not permit me to become too overwhelmed emotionally by the experience, so that I feel retraumatized all over again. This has been a CONTINUAL problem in our work together. When this happens, I tell my t that I do not want to talk about the past traumas, that they are too upsetting, and I want to focus elsewhere. But she insists that avoiding it is harmful because those bad experiences of the past continue to influence my daily life in a negative way. She IS correct about that.

So anyway, I apologize for getting so wordy. Thanks again for your suggestions!!

I think we cross posted. I asked my new T. if maybe I should go to see someone like your T. - one who is well versed in transference and digging through my past. She didn't agree. She said you've pretty much done that with Ex-T and know what you missed. Now, I need to focus on how to not let that guide my life. She said I could go to one if the transference develops with her but maybe more as a consultant than replacing her.

So, maybe you're onto something. Maybe you need a different approach. One difficult thing is to decide what is best for us. We want to rely on these "experts" to tell us. When my new T. asked why go into the past, I thought she was a little crazy because I thought I need to to heal. But, I'm thinking she's right. THAT is what caused me so much pain. Right now I just need to learn how to deepen my relationships.

Listen to your heart. Therapy is not supposed to be painful all of the time. Both of my T's have told me that in addition to a family T. You have to take care of yourself.

[peaches100]

Soccer Mom,

Thanks for your input. I have been reading about your therapy experiences for quite some time now and was aware that you just terminated with your former t. I share much of the same struggles you have. It's so painful! I hope that your new t is better at knowing how to navigate those difficult transference waters. I know my t really cares about me a lot, but I almost think that I would do better in therapy if she wasn't so nice to me. It tends to spark false hopes in the parts of me that steel feel scared, needy, and abandoned. Then I have to work hard to fend off those unrealistic desires of wanting her to love me like a mom. It's a continual painful struggle, and I just don't want anymore of it.

I just emailed and told her that I don't want to focus on past traumas anymore and the reason why. I said that it makes me love her, and want her to love me like a mom. But I know she isn't offering me that. I told her that the huge empty hole inside me is so painful. I also said that I know it is my responsibility to become that mom for myself, but I honestly don't know if I can capable of it. I said that if there is no way for that huge empty hole to be filled, then I don't see the benefit of continuing to dredge up that pain over and over again. I suggested shifting gears and focusing on other things that will help me to become independent and self-sufficient so I don't feel like I need a mom or someone to rescue me from this emotional pain,.

She replied that she understood my feelings and would honor my decision. We are going to focus elsewhere. (Of course, she didn't tell me, "I DO love you in return." Some unrealistic part of me was hoping to hear that. But I knew I wouldn't. That is why I need to focus elsewhere and let go of the harmful hope that my t can be the mom I never had.)

Thanks again for your insights. Please let me know how things with your new t go.

Peaches

[Leah123]

I don't think therapy succeeds in healing attachment needs in a vacuum. It's natural to look to your therapist for that connection, and you'll find some of it there, but if you're not integrating the therapy with the rest of your life, I think it will always feel somewhat meaningless or even masochistic to talk about the past. I don't think there is any reason to mull over pain endlessly. I acknowledge the feelings I have, I have them, they shift. I use them as information- pain means I need something, not just to reexamine the pain over and over- it's a message- and I think the best way to heed the message is to build.

I'm glad you've addressed it with your T, but I hope she'll encourage you also to create a really meaningful life, or I should probably say continue to-

maybe if you talked about some of your progress in doing that in therapy it would help?

Sometimes when I feel most bereft or unanchored, reviewing that stuff in writing turns out to be grounding and comforting.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Peaches I have been through and am going through this exact same thing. I don't think my father ever wanted kids and my mother treated me horribly. True, both my parents were emotionally abusive but it was my mother that was the worse. I never had a "mother". I was never comforted, taking care of, loved. It has caused MANY problems for me. The biggest thing it has caused for me is the same hole inside that you speak of. The hole in your heart that is so deep and painful. The longing for a mother, a good mother. My T is nothing like my mom and it has fueled transference and attachment to her. She is so caring and loving and she has been there for me. All of those things my mother didn't do. I have spent months wishing my T could be my mom. She is everything you could ever want in mother. My transference has been so strong for my T that I have shed many tears and didn't think I was going to survive it. I have told my T about it many times and she has and is helping me through it. I had to realize the hard way that my T can fill some basic needs (loving, caring, being there for me, hugs) but she can't be my mom and she can't fill that painful hole in my heart. My attachment and transference is much smaller now and I don't think about my T 24/7 like I used to.

I have learned through therapy that in order for me to fill this painful hole and to not be so attached and dependent on my T, I need to be my own loving parent. I also need to find someone else to fill the needs I was trying to get from my T. I have been leaning on my husband more and he is filling all of the needs I have. True, its different because he is a male and I have always craved affection from females but its working for me. We are closer (always have been, but much more now) and I am now getting what I need from him and not putting so much pressure on my T. I know it sounds cheesy but my husband is filling that painful hole I have had in my heart just by loving me, being there and understanding about my abusive past.

So my advice to you is to learn to become your own loving parent. Your T should help with that. Also to find someone else like a friend, spouse, bf/gf, aunt, grandmother, sister who can fit those needs. At the end of the day your T can't and wont fill all of the needs you have. Its a hard thing to accept, I know. There are times I look at my T and get sad that I can't have what I want but I try and think positive and remember that I am lucky to have my T in my life even if its not the role I want her to be in.

My inbox is open whenever you feel like chatting. I know how you feel and I know how hard it is. I am sorry you are going through this pain as well. I will be thinking of you and sending you healing positive vibes.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by peaches100

But if it is true that the therapy relationship can't replace what was missing in the past, then why keep delving into the past and stirring up the pain? I can't deal with it.

This is where I'm at too.

And to be honest, all the stuff about coping skills and being one's own parent, etc, just piss me off. I have plenty of coping skills. I can cope just fine. I have always been there for me, and always will be.

However, I feel like the therapist should do something, be something, not just a catalyst for making a client feel godawful and then leave them to 'parent' themselves. Dammit, we parented ourselves already, that's how we survived this long.

I feel like it's a bit of a mind-**** actually. And I'm not sure that therapists really have any business triggering all that stuff and then telling you to breathe deeply or be kind to yourself. I am super kind to myself. I need someone else to be kind to me.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

This is where I'm at too.

And to be honest, all the stuff about coping skills and being one's own parent, etc, just piss me off. I have plenty of coping skills. I can cope just fine. I have always been there for me, and always will be.

However, I feel like the therapist should do something, be something, not just a catalyst for making a client feel godawful and then leave them to 'parent' themselves. Dammit, we parented ourselves already, that's how we survived this long.

I feel like it's a bit of a mind-**** actually. And I'm not sure that therapists really have any business triggering all that stuff and then telling you to breathe deeply or be kind to yourself. I am super kind to myself. I need someone else to be kind to me.

You came up with words to describe something I've not been able to. Believe me, I know how you feel.

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

You came up with words to describe something I've not been able to. Believe me, I know how you feel.

The thing is, we went to therapy (maybe the 'we' is presumptuous but I'm sure I'll be corrected if that's the case) because we were tired of doing it all on our own, because we couldn't do it all on our own, because we'd done it all on our own for so long that we were pretty close to thinking we'd never not do it all alone.

And then the therapist seems to offer some kind of help, some kind of therapeutic relationship - which sounds super nice. But as soon as you put any pressure or real need on it, it disappears like a mirage. And what you're left with is the reality you already understood, and that's that you have to look after yourself.

[msxyz]

Well actually in some therapies there is a re-parenting element and not just a parent yourself element.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by msxyz

Well actually in some therapies there is a re-parenting element and not just a parent yourself element.

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

The thing is, we went to therapy (maybe the 'we' is presumptuous but I'm sure I'll be corrected if that's the case) because we were tired of doing it all on our own, because we couldn't do it all on our own, because we'd done it all on our own for so long that we were pretty close to thinking we'd never not do it all alone.

And then the therapist seems to offer some kind of help, some kind of therapeutic relationship - which sounds super nice. But as soon as you put any pressure or real need on it, it disappears like a mirage. And what you're left with is the reality you already understood, and that's that you have to look after yourself.

I've had that happen and it's been awful.

But I've been seeing my current therapist for a couple years now and it's different.

We started with an online service where the format was freeform- I could make appointments or just ring her when she was available, so... basically, sessions on demand. We emailed as a supplement.

I found it to make a huge difference- she could talk when I needed to process something, we could finish a disagreement rather than end on a terrible note and let it sit for a week, she could send me songs for comfort, she could read my middle of the night flashback accounts in the morning and reply.

Some therapists do those things without extra charge I've heard, but I think they're few and far between.

With my T, I pay for nearly all the time and I pay for the emails too, so it's expensive, but I do feel like I have some of that actual reparenting that's somewhat ongoing, not only the one hour per week, and it's helped hugely. It's been and is intense, so that's the downside, but it's really helped us forge a connection and work through things quickly (well, I mean.... it still takes a lot of time, but we can get in that time faster than with the one hour a week format), and....

when I want a virtual hug or some comfort after a terrible nightmare.... she can often be there for me more regularly.

She thinks therapists can fill some similar roles, like mentor, teacher, etc., and one of them is "good enough mother." Not the same, but similar.

Like the way she took pride when I graduated or reassured me after a night terror or read me a story when I needed something soothing for the anxiety.

I think it's a... mixed blessing? I definitely still feel pain at times, there is no replacement for what we don't have... just healing and nurturing and care, largely self-care and created community of different types in my experience.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

The thing is, we went to therapy (maybe the 'we' is presumptuous but I'm sure I'll be corrected if that's the case) because we were tired of doing it all on our own, because we couldn't do it all on our own, because we'd done it all on our own for so long that we were pretty close to thinking we'd never not do it all alone.

And then the therapist seems to offer some kind of help, some kind of therapeutic relationship - which sounds super nice. But as soon as you put any pressure or real need on it, it disappears like a mirage. And what you're left with is the reality you already understood, and that's that you have to look after yourself.

We must be seeing the same T! LOL

[SkyscraperMeow]

Originally Posted by Leah123

I've had that happen and it's been awful.

But I've been seeing my current therapist for a couple years now and it's different.

We started with an online service where the format was freeform- I could make appointments or just ring her when she was available, so... basically, sessions on demand. We emailed as a supplement.

I found it to make a huge difference- she could talk when I needed to process something, we could finish a disagreement rather than end on a terrible note and let it sit for a week, she could send me songs for comfort, she could read my middle of the night flashback accounts in the morning and reply.

Some therapists do those things without extra charge I've heard, but I think they're few and far between.

With my T, I pay for nearly all the time and I pay for the emails too, so it's expensive, but I do feel like I have some of that actual reparenting that's somewhat ongoing, not only the one hour per week, and it's helped hugely. It's been and is intense, so that's the downside, but it's really helped us forge a connection and work through things quickly (well, I mean.... it still takes a lot of time, but we can get in that time faster than with the one hour a week format), and....

when I want a virtual hug or some comfort after a terrible nightmare.... she can often be there for me more regularly.

She thinks therapists can fill some similar roles, like mentor, teacher, etc., and one of them is "good enough mother." Not the same, but similar.

Like the way she took pride when I graduated or reassured me after a night terror or read me a story when I needed something soothing for the anxiety.

I think it's a... mixed blessing? I definitely still feel pain at times, there is no replacement for what we don't have... just healing and nurturing and care, largely self-care and created community of different types in my experience.

That sounds amazing! I think being able to at least reach out when you need it, and ask for help as required, maybe not receive it immediately, but get it closer to the time you need it would be so helpful.

[Virginia1991]

peaches--- I could have written your posts on here word for word. In fact, I have. Wish I had an answer. I opened up a bit more in my real life to two other similar, nurturing maternal figures. When these two women accepted me and nurtured me---my attachment to my t diminished a bit. I also found a new hobby once a week that has helped with my self esteem.

[Virginia1991]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

This is where I'm at too.

And to be honest, all the stuff about coping skills and being one's own parent, etc, just piss me off. I have plenty of coping skills. I can cope just fine. I have always been there for me, and always will be.

However, I feel like the therapist should do something, be something, not just a catalyst for making a client feel godawful and then leave them to 'parent' themselves. Dammit, we parented ourselves already, that's how we survived this long.

I feel like it's a bit of a mind-**** actually. And I'm not sure that therapists really have any business triggering all that stuff and then telling you to breathe deeply or be kind to yourself. I am super kind to myself. I need someone else to be kind to me.

This. Just exactly this. When my t said something like this I sent an angry email to her asking her to never say "to parent myself" ever again. She said ok. I have already raised myself! I love everything you wrote skyscraper.

[sezchwarn]

Dredging up past trauma is a psychotherapeutic persuasion. They genuinely believe that's what needs to be done. You can't be too annoyed at them; they are just trying to help in the only way they know how. However, if they are not helping you rationalise it and move on (and it sounds like that's the case), then they are just not very good at what they do. There's no point bringing up the past for the sake of it.
If you don't feel any progress then the answer is simple- it's up to you to try another therapy with another therapist. Take control!! Why the hesitance? I chop and change like the wind. This whole 'building up a relationship' thing makes sense if you have trouble communicating to people you don't know but otherwise (it seems to me) is partly a way for therapists to monopolise the income stream that is your therapy. Same too with the sacred 'don't have more than one therapist at once', (else you might realise my therapy isn't actually optimal for you and stop paying me.) If they did trials in which some patients were receiving two forms of therapy vs patients who were only receiving one, I'd put my money on two forms being more effective.
Just so you know, I'm talking as someone in the same situation, rubbish parents. Try Gestalt, I did an exercise myself (empty chair) and it seemed to help in putting the past behind me so I'm looking for a therapist who does that now. Cbt is good. If you are coping with life in the present, socially, career wise etc, you won't be so resentful of the past.

[ComfortablyNumb5]

Reading your story was so familiar to me. My mom passed away when I was 9 and then my dad moved his pregnant mistress into our house. It was absolute hell. They partied every night. Laughed when I cried, called us names, hit us, and some jerry springer stuff I rather not say. I was diagnosed with PTSD from all of this.
However, I do NOT see a t. I've given it many tries in the past and I think I only got close with 2 of them. I get the need to fill that empty space your past has left and I however do what I shouldn't do. I get attached to boyfriends, almost seeing them as a father figure I never had. My bf lives with me and I'm not working right now. But every time he leaves I feel physical hurt and scared. I even stay up till 5am to see him come in from work. And whenever I have somewhere to go, I want him with me. It's like having a comfort dog lol.
When I was younger, I had a friend that I always felt safe and child like, as if she was my mom. It had nothing sexual or anything but I loved when she would do my hair and makeup. When she touched me, I literally got calm like as if I had a boo boo and MY mom was holding me. I think we just feel this way because we were so deprived growing up. If you starve yourself for a wk, what are you going to want more than anything once that week is up! Food?! So we have a tendency to get attached to others. Weather or not it's healthy would depend on the type of relationship and who that person is I guess. It's ok that we have the need to be held and calmed. But if the need gets too strong where it's disrupting the relationship then I would worry. Have you ever thought of admitting these feelings to your t?

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