Signs of a good therapist

Yes this is a really positive attribute. Always giving the client hope that they can get through this and that they can cope. Sometimes we don't believe we can cope and see everything in a negative light so I need a t that can shine a light on what's really happening.

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I'm always surprised at the assumption that someone is going to get hurt in therapy. I mean, logically speaking, one is going to get hurt even in the healthiest relationship. I've been married for over a decade. I have a great marriage but sometimes we piss each other off. My best friend has said words that wounded me and I have as well - not intentionally but just because we're human.

That being said, I'm with you on what I'm looking for in my relationship with my T - or rather what I'm *not* looking for. My T isn't a father figure or a desired lover or a wanted friend. He's my therapist. His job is to sit in his chair and to, based on the chosen therapy technique, help me sort out myself out. I do have an e-mail for him - his work e-mail and it's helpful for me to process in written form because of my childhood (long story), but I don't expect communication with him outside of our scheduled session unless there's an urgent or administrative issue.

I won't say I'm not fond of him or haven't grown attached - seven years will do that, but we're always evaluating whether or not he's reached his limitations and if I need to move on. Right now though, I'm seeing the progress *I* want to see and so we continue working together.

And that would be another sign of a good therapist - a willingness to recognize their own limitations. I've had my T suggest consults and other such things.

In my view the handling of termination and the client's experience of it will tell the tale. And even then I think you need a few months to really know. Until you reach the end, how can you make an assessment?

As for qualities, I'd say humility and transparency.

The other thread is not exactly "negative". It could be seen as "positive" in the context of helping one another avoid problems. There is a difference.

And in that thread many of those who preach hard about the inherent goodness of therapy showed up and tried to influence the discussion with counter arguments. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone objected outright. But in this discussion something similar happening in reverse is unacceptable. Kooky double standard.

Your comments about choosing to move forward and not giving up power will not make you many friends among those who have been betrayed or exploited in therapy. It suggests client failure. Word to the wise...

I said my piece and I stand by it. I will NOT apologize for what I think and MY experience either. The moving onward and upward was simply what I did and I had to work d**n hard to get there. It wasn't easy. I GET IT. I have not made ANY posts in the other thread. What others do is their business. Yes I suggested we keep the two separate again I did not make ANY posts in the other thread.

I am most grateful to t1 who continues to stick it out with me, taking a support role while I work with ts with more experience with my MI. I appreciate that he has been ok with me working with other t's, content to take a secondary role. He's only called the police on me once He has even stood up to "experts" who thought they knew what was best for me.

Ok Xmas is over, let's get back to the pointless arguing…

What does it say about therapy that we are so polarized, and divided into two basic camps, each now with our own thread about good and bad therapists?

Has a distinctly cult-ish feel (as has been pointed out elsewhere). On one side the devotees who dreamily catalogue their guru's wonderful traits, and on the other side the non-believers (formerly believers) who bitterly recount the psychological and emotional injuries that resulted.

I don't know that we are as polarized as all that. But perhaps it says less about therapy than about people who are in therapy.

It wouldn't be especially surprising that people who are/have been in therapy think and argue like people who should be in therapy, would it?

A lot of us struggle with black-and-white thinking. A lot of us have problems and hurts in our past that make us hold fiercely to the comfort and stability of a firm opinion. A lot of us are still working through our feelings about the issue which is why we're pointlessly arguing on internet forums in the first place.

Ha!

Hope you enjoyed your holiday, Budfox.

Oh, and when you characterize the 'other side' as "devotees who dreamily catalogue their guru's wonderful traits," that does have a tendency to offend people and make them swing more radically in their direction.

And I don't know that I see as much of that around here as you seem to. In fact, I see a lot of people unhappy with this or that aspect of therapy--think how many 'my T was late' threads there are.

Or maybe it is both. I was definitely not so cynical and tormented and despondent prior to therapy. Was a paradigmatic experience (to paraphrase an author).

Seems half of western culture is in therapy so not sure we are such a select group.

True. I wouldn't be here arguing with total strangers if I didnt have issues. I don't tend toward black and white thinking, but holding to firm opinions and being right is part of what drives me. Also the anonymity of the inter-web allows bad behavior to flourish.

Hope you enjoyed yours also!

Jeesh, I haven't even gotten the wrapping paper out to the garbage can yet and you're looking for a pointless argument

Actually, I don't think that I "dreamily catalogue" my guru/therapist's wonderful traits any more than I think that people who write about their betrayals and personal pain from their therapist's incompetence are ranting or raving like maniacs. Each of us post about we personally have experienced and all the descriptions are very personal and believable. I do truly believe that therapy is NOT for everyone. For some people I think therapy can actually be harmful. I have no problem stating when I think a therapist is being harmful. There are very untrained/poorly trained and even dangerous therapists out there, just as I believe that there are well-trained and competent therapists.

Just as I can see the danger in the process for some, I get a little irritated when I read on the forums that I'm just one step away from being hurt and humiliated because I'm in therapy and I see it as a positive thing. . . .that I just haven't experienced the betrayal and incompetence that is right around the corner ready to blindside me. I get it! At any time any of us can get into a bad relationship--inside or outside therapy. That's life. I have no problem with "bad" therapists being sued or charged with incompetence. But in the end, being in therapy is an individual experience and the only person who can tell whether or not I get anything important out of the process is me<<--the person actually in MY therapy!

Personally, I think my therapist is a pretty average, intelligent individual who I enjoy talking to about issues that my friend's aren't interesting in hashing through with me--why would they? It's pretty boring. My friend's have busy lives and families and talking solely about my issues isn't going to happen in this lifetime! I'm not someone who is "into" getting attached to my therapist and I don't angst and agonize about what she's doing or where she is when I'm not seeing her. I figure my relationship with her is pretty tame. We have our ups and downs, but mainly it's just a place to go and work through some old issues that are causing me a bit of trouble in my day to day life, nothing major or life threatening. I figure I'm pretty lucky to have the insurance and money to pay for therapy because I know that not everyone has that option. But if my situation changed tomorrow, I'd be sad to stop therapy but it wouldn't devastate me and my life would continue on pretty much the same as it is today.

I'm exaggerating some to make a point. But also, scholars and other professionals have made the link between therapy and cults. It's a commonly cited analogy, certainly not my idea. Not saying therapy is a cult, but surely we can all see the likeness.

If you have a great relationship with your T and there is none of the pervasive submission or deference that suggests cult-like associations, then not sure why it would be offensive necessarily. And if it is, how much of the offense is due to some knowing that there is truth in it? I fell into the trap myself, so I am not judging.

. . .yes, this is exaggerating and exactly the problem most of us have . . . this kind of characterization. Most of us have repeatedly said we see and acknowledge both sides of the issues, yet people come back and say those of us is with positive experiences must know "that there is truth" in what you say and may have fallen into a "trap." We've been maligned as delusional and "dreamy" in general repeatedly on threads such as this. When you generalize about people with positive experiences, you are generalizing about us. This is a constant theme. We simply ask that you speak only to your own experience and stop generalizing about people and therapists in black and white terms. I'm not the only person who has mentioned this -- repeatedly -- but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

I've never said there wasnt anything wrong with therapy or even some therapists. I am very aware therapy is innately flawed given you pay to trust flawed human beings. I choose to be aware and not dwell on that. I set my own rules for therapy and focus on the goals. My therapy is different than a lot of the stuff that others have here. Again doesnt make others wrong just would never work for me in a (temporary)therapeutic relationship.

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Not to gang up on you here, BF, but I think Lola has a point.

Do you find it helpful to talk generally about therapy? Or do you think it's possible this is a way of indirectly dealing with what was by all accounts a really, really terrible individual experience? Would it be more helpful to stick with your own story, and work more directly on your very legitimate grievances?

To personalize my point—I know I’ve done something similar when working on my own issues. Intellectualizing, generalizing, and acting as an advocate with an agenda have all been ways that I’ve tried to deal with my own issues. I know subjected my T (and other people in my life) to long-winded feminist-informed tirades that involves words like ‘patriarchy’ and ‘phallogocentrism.’ And it felt good. And I think I had some good points.

But the harder I argued, the more desperately I was veering away from dealing directly with very specific experiences. I was trying to take on and make sense of the entire world, and not particular events. It was the latter that I really needed to address.

Maybe that speaks a certain truth to you--maybe it doesn't. Just a suggestion.

I think that there are probably a lot of people who are in perfectly good, healthy, positive therapy who are not on PC. And as has been mentioned in the thread on Yelp, the people with the strongest feelings on either side are the most likely to engage. Thus the polarization.

There also are many different reasons for treatment. Some of us have general life issues that many face, while others of us face mental illnesses. And some have serious attachment issues. I definitely don't think therapy is a one size fits all; it's not universally bad nor good. And there are all sorts of therapists out there. I think therapists who do not have experience in attachment disorders can cause a great deal of pain with vulnerable people. I also think there are very good therapists out there who sometimes make mistakes. And there are a whole lot of people who have entered therapy, benefited from it who never show up here.

I think once I have completed this round of therapy I will not be found posting here. But according to my t that is a long way away

[QUOTE=BudFox;4840526]Has a distinctly cult-ish feel (as has been pointed out elsewhere). On one side the devotees who dreamily catalogue their guru's wonderful traits, and on the other side the non-believers (formerly believers) who bitterly recount the psychological and emotional injuries that resulted.[/QUOTE]<<---This here is "black and white thinking". There aren't just two camps, the "devotees" and the "non-believers". There are many many grays in-between. Sometimes when you're hurt by something, it's hard to accept or recognize that others see things in shades of gray. A cult is something that a person can't leave because of the intense feelings of loss and abandonment he/she feels when she thinks about or actually tries to leave the cult. There are numerous examples both here on this forum and out in the real world where people engage in therapy and then leave, never to return after a positive experience. They aren't traumatized or shattered when they leave. They went, they got what they needed and they moved on. We all react differently.

Example of the gray areas:
A) There are people who swear by therapy-they gush about it and think that everyone should go to therapy and they recommend it to everyone whether they are interested in going or not.

B) There are people who use therapy for specific problems, attend for a period of time and find it useful. Then he/she leaves therapy and if asked by someone else what his opinion is regarding going to therapy, he talks about how it was helpful to him and how he doesn't regret going.

C) There are people who bounce in and out of therapy like a rubber ball. One day he's gushing about therapy and the next he's swearing up a storm about how useless and harmful therapy is! You catch him on another day day and he is referring you to his therapist with glowing terms. You might meet him the next week and he is swearing that his therapist is a witch doctor who has put a hex on him and his life is ruined.

D) There are people who have never been to therapy but someone in his family was helped by a therapy and he expresses that he has positive feelings about therapy and how it helped his family member and encourages you to think about giving it a try.

E) There are people who go to therapy and are just blahhhh. It wasn't bad but he just can't really say it was helpful. He's like, "Give it a try if you think it might help. I can't really say it hurt, but can't say it helped either!"

F) There are people who have never been to therapy and don't believe in therapy or talking about emotional things. Perhaps he has been raised in a family that believes in "pull yourself up by your boot straps!" or "Don't air your dirty laundry to a stranger!" If asked about therapy, he is vocal and open about how its a scam and a paid friend.

G) There are people who are profoundly hurt by therapy. They are abused and humiliated. They leave the relationship worse then when they went in. Their entire life, every aspect of it, is changed and NOT for the good. Years after therapy ends they are still reeling from the effects.

These are just a FEW of the different combinations of what can happen when people engage in therapy. It is so individual we can't even begin to list all the possibilities of how a person will react when he/she comes in contact with a therapist. All opinions have merit and for each of us, we get to decide which fits our own personal needs . . . and sometimes, our view changes over time and due to new experiences.

I can see the polarisation too but I can understand that we all are polarised in many ways and for many reasons. It's not good or bad it just is and often the people who are so against therapy have been the ones who have been hurt the most. All we can do is speak from our own experiences.
Yes there are signs of a good and bad therapist threads to voice both opinions and experiences, these threads are open to everyone and we just ask that everyone listens and if they can offer some support if and when needed.
I have had some very good therapy and very bad therapy so if can speak from both experiences, doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it was just my experience.

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Who is this "we" you mention?

I said nothing black and white. I pointed out that, given the "good" and "bad" therapist threads, there is obvious polarization here and then brought up the oft cited cult analogy as a frame of reference.

I wonder if you even know what you are objecting to? I said nothing new or even controversial.

I could start another thread about the polarization issue, probably would be best.

Another sign of a good T, IMO, is having a healthy boundary between work life and their everyday life. Not necessarily in the sense of refusing to talk about their lives in a natural way with clients, but rather in the sense that they have a good work/life balance. One of the aspects I like about my T and would look for in a future T (if need be) is that he has an office, office number, office email. Prior to us finally finding a medication that works for my depression, I struggled with feeling like I weighed people down. I felt much more secure in my interactions with him as a result. It sounds odd, maybe, but I think it's something I would want with any therapist I worked with.

I know it's not a guarantee or even a strong indicator that a therapist has a good work/life balance so maybe a more general way of saying it would be, "A T has a good personal work/life balance" and that it might look different for each person. I just wanted to list one thing that has helped me as I've worked on issues in therapy.

[QUOTE=NowhereUSA;4840727]Another sign of a good T, IMO, is having a healthy boundary between work life and their everyday life. Not necessarily in the sense of refusing to talk about their lives in a natural way with clients, but rather in the sense that they have a good work/life balance.. . . QUOTE]

This is a great example of what I look for in a therapist, mainly because I know that I have struggled most of my adult life with finding a "balance" between my work life and my personal life. I tended to lean too much in one direction or the other, usually the work side. It really skewed my life and made things difficult for me. At one point, my workaholic lifestyle resulted in a meltdown. I like that the therapist that I currently have is very balanced. She takes care of business at work with competence and dedication, but she is able to leave it at the office once she leaves. She's able to deal with clients in crisis, but my impression is that she doesn't carry it around with her like an everyday shawl.

[QUOTE=Jaybird57;4840761]Ditto. One of the things T really worked with me on was finding balance in my life. He was a great model for this. He talked a lot about his ability to compartmentalize so that one client's session doesn't ooze over into the next, so that work doesn't bleed into his personal life, etc. (skills he says are vital to any therapist who doesn't want to burn out). He also was a man with many outside interests: biking, camping, hunting, yoga, martial arts, etc. And he really encouraged me to branch out in my life, get out of my routine of work, home, work, home that had me so very isolated and lonely, and find other outlets that will nurture my soul and stretch me beyond my safety zone. I finally got up the nerve to do so, and finding a variety of avenues for fulfillment in my life as he had encouraged, has ultimately been very healing and has made me much less tunnel-visioned in my life. He walked the walk; he didn't just suggest and suggest; he modeled exactly that kind of balance that I needed to find.

This kind of leads me into another thought about what makes a good therapist in a very subjective way. My T is a fairly open person and I'm extremely closed off. We were talking about a friendship of mine, one time, and I commented that the struggle this friend and I had was that "we were broken in the same way."

What helpful about my therapeutic relationship is that whatever my T's issues are, they aren't the same one's I have. His openness has helped me be open in my own life. I remember early on he asked if I'd shared some of my severe depressive thoughts with my husband and I replied that I hadn't. His response, which stuck with me was, "If my wife was dealing with this, I'd want to know."

Slowly I started to share with my husband and my T was helpful in explaining things to him so that there was understanding and now I've come to a place of a much more natural openness with my husband and my marriage has improved.

I guess what I meant with subjective is that people have different things that would benefit them in looking for a therapist that is complementary (and some may not want that kind of connection at all). But for me, personally, I like that the places I struggle hardest are areas where he doesn't.

I wonder, as a side note, if sometimes when there's idealization of a T, if this is a piece of it. It seems like the T has a perfect life or has it all together, but it's because we see our own rough areas and we see them not having the same ones and that leads to idealizing? That's just a random musing.

Could be. I've never been one to idealize my therapists (I stopped idealizing people many years ago when the one person I idealized seriously abused me. I learned to be much more realistic about people since then.) But that makes sense. While my T had his act together in many areas of his life, he definitely didn't have it together in others so I just saw him as pretty normal. I did admire and learn from his ability to find balance in his life though.