Article: Psychotherapy as a Cult

Thanks ruh roh. Appreciate it. The mob mentality remark was in reference to the forum in general and not about this thread. Perhaps a couple posts in this thread I find hostile, but in general I have no problem with the discussion.

And yes posters on PC who are critical of therapy are sometimes set upon in a creepy way. Or, and this is bit more troubling, sometimes just asking certain questions can bring this out. But if I post something provocative I expect to take some heat since this is touchy stuff.

I'm not saying it's a cult, or is always cult-like. For me it is a case of compare and contrast.

But I do think there are aspects of what we call a cult that are inescapable in therapy. The moment you walk in the door a hierarchy exists, and one person has emotional and psychological power over the other, in a way that you don't find elsewhere too often. if it is managed well, then all this cult talk is probably mostly irrelevant. But you can see here on PC there are enough posters telling similar stories of harmful experiences, and suddenly feeling on the outside looking in, to wonder about all this.

Its in a way you find everywhere, imo. Thats why the knockout "game" is so horrifying. Why terrorism is so... terrifying. We expect people to be civilized nowadays. Thats how shaking hands evolved - to show we werent carrying a weapon.

It always comes down to two people, you and someone else. If there is another person "supervising", then you have to trust THAT person to have your best interest. But why would you trust a second person, if you couldnt trust a first person?? It makes no sense. One person is like another! So - back to you and the first person. Literally. If mom messes you up, good luck getting unmessed up.

http://www.zurinstitute.com/power_in_therapy.html

Here's an (incredibly long) article about power in psychotherapy that might be interesting to someone. From the introduction:

"Many psychotherapy or counseling clients are, indeed, distressed, traumatized, anxious, depressed and therefore vulnerable. Many others are also very young, impaired and vulnerable and can be easily influenced by their therapists. Then, on the other hand, other clients are strong, authoritative and successful. Many modern day consumers seek therapy to enhance the quality of their lives, improve their loving relationships or find meaning and purpose for their lives. They are neither depressed nor traumatized nor vulnerable. A more inclusive look at power reveals that the power differential in some instances is completely valid, but in many other instances it is a myth. The error is to see the power differential as always relevant - as if all clients are the same and all therapist-client relationships identical. Despite the evident fact that some therapists and counselors are successful and powerful while many others struggle financially and are, at times, emotionally fraught, the faulty belief that all therapists hold ultimate power over all their clients lives on. Throughout this paper, the context of the material will make it obvious when it discusses the valid power differential and when it refers to the myth."

I particularly liked the part about how power may shift during the therapeutic process, as it speaks directly to my experience. I think it is usually (though not inescapably) true that there's a power differential at the beginning, but as (good) therapy progresses, that power differential starts to equalize because there's more transparency--as you get to know the T and see their flaws they seem more human and less guru-like.

I was quite aware of a power differential when I began therapy. Months later, the idea of my T being anyone's guru is downright laughable. That would be WAY too much work for somebody who can't be bothered to start a session on time ever.

I have never felt that the therapist had more power than I did with either of my therapists. I have always felt that either I had more power or that power was more or less equal. I know others feel very differently, so thank you for your posts, Argonautomobile.

More Power? Fascinating. I'd love to hear more about that, if you don't mind sharing.

I don't think I've ever felt I held more power than my T, unless the power of cursing like a sailor counts. I get to say whatever the **** I want, and he's stuck with "Gosh," the *****.

I suppose it boils down to the fact that I see myself as their employer and also the only one who can truly evaluate the job they're doing, mine being the one opinion on that that matters. They serve at my pleasure, to be grandiose and autocratic about it.

The one time I cursed in session, No. 1 dropped her notebook and was flabbergasted. She swears more than I do.

The client gets to quit - walk away without another word and the therapist can do nothing about it.

Of course! (Duh) Yeah, I'd probably feel the same way if I were in that same position. My T is salaried. If I quit he'd just pick someone off the waiting list. Or, you know, play Candy Crush Saga on his phone.

Maybe (no maybe, really) thats what my mom used to do, and thats who i learned this way of "having a relationship" from - my way or the highway. Thats the transference we bring in with us when we walk in the room for the first time. Hence the feeling there is a hierarchy.

Therapy shouldnt be on chairs or couches - it should be on a tightrope or a trapeze, where you HAVE to depend on the other so you dont fall off! Just an idea. But thats kind of whats going on.

If the T is dependent on your income, might that increase the incentive for manipulation? "No--don't go!--You're not well!You need to come in three times a week!"

Not saying that happens, just a thought.

Not the kind of therapy I do. If it works for you, great - I would never do it that way. It is not what is going on for me.

Plus I was only talking about power. I get to quit at any time for any reason and the therapist cannot do a thing about it. I don't have to give the woman a reason. I don't have to justify or explain my decision. Hence I have the power - the therapist does not.

Thats the beauty of it. It is whatever the client needs it to be.

I kind of doubt either of mine were dependent upon me for income, given their obvious popularity. The scenario you raise is possible, but it also gives the client more power, right?

Oh, yeah. I suppose it would give the client even more power.

And yeah, good point that it's unlikely a T would be entirely dependent on one client.

i found a lot of T's were fully booked over here, it was very hard to get a place, i highly doubt their entire career rests on a single patient

This is so sadly true so many times. It's a sick profession in many ways.

I hate being so fragile and vulerable, but I am. It's why I was in therapy in the first place. The dynamic withh her was just perfectly set up for me to be hurt even worse. In a way, it's my fault for allowing it to happen, but this is where life left me, and I am damaged. I admit it.I needed to become stronger, not more desperately dependent.

I agree with this. I read the book "The Guru Papers" (the book that is cited as a basis for the discussion) and it refers to a situation as described here, mostly involving spiritual and religious groups, but also AA as well. The book is quite radical. A cult is usually a group dynamic, with a leader (hence "guru") who is thought to have special powers or is enlightened.

There is definitely a need to discuss the dynamics of therapy that sometimes can make it unhealthy (one reason I am shying away from it at present) but I am not certain this model fits.

I read on another thread the reasons someone's therapist gave for "firing" a patient/client. This is odd. A therapist might opt to discontinue therapy, but is never in the position of firing anyone. He is a hired professional and a patient or client can "fire" him (although I really don't like this term) by terminating therapy. Although one therapist tried to intimidate me when I decided to end therapy with him, it was perfectly doable, and I successfully terminated therapy with him and all his services i.e. prescribing meds. I don't think using the "cult" model does anything to inform and empower clients/patients about their rights in therapy. A therapist can be reported to certifying boards or the hospital/institution with which he is affiliated, and if need be, legal action can be taken. In a cult there are no such safeguards.

It's actually quite hard to take legal action against a therapist and have much of a chance to win. It is also very rare to have a therapist lose his/her license over something like an unethical therapy relationship. It's one thing if the therapist is committing insurance fraud, but quite another if you try to cite that damage has been done by unethical therapy. I've seen so many people who should have won cases like this, where the therapist was *clearly* in the wrong, and at most the therapist ended up with a slap on the wrist.

I think my therapist would lose her job if I reported her to her boss, becayse what she did was very against the rules of her workplace, and I have 5+ years of proof in emails. I haven't/won't do this, but I do think it would happen. This is a very specific case though because I started seeing her out of a university couseling centre. I don't think I could get her to lose her license or take legal action. For one thing, "therapy" is hard to define, which kind of makes "therapy malpractice" hard to define as well.

Well, I don't know. It seems you know more about this than I do. I am very sorry to hear of your situation. It sounds just terrible and I am sure you certainly did not need to be dragged through such an awful scenerio.

I wasn't saying that one need to cause a therapist to lose their license. I am just saying there seems to be a hierarchy of accountability. If one thinks a therapist has behaved unethically or inappropriately this should absolutely be reported. I also understand that people get away with bad stuff in all professions.

I think this subject warrants a lot more discussion, including ways one might protect oneself and get out of a situation before being psychologically harmed. Easier said than done. I think there needs to be a lot more monitoring of both therapy and medication.

If the therapist has done something like insurance fraud, or not referred a client after termination, or not given a client access to their own records, or had an improper dual relationship (say, hiring a client), it should be easy to file a complaint - things like that can be proven. There are a number of online resources in the US to help clients file a complaint.

If what the therapist has done is less tangible - say allowing unlimited outside contact and then removing it suddenly to the client's detriment - that is less easy to prove and have disciplined.

I do think any therapist who has harmed a client should be punished, whether with a licensing complaint or a complaint to their supervisor/boss or whatever the client can do. Many clients are understandably uncomfortable with the idea, though.

Errr, no. Or rather the client can file a complaint, but that doesn't mean anything necessarily will come of it. A friend caught a social worker in clear, documented insurance fraud. She also could document he had her assist him edit a book he was trying to write. The provider himself admitted some out-of-bounds "creative" practices. He was "sentenced" to a course in practice management, but that was the extent of his punishment.

I read of another case where a doctor and client flew off to an island vacation. The doc received a six-month license suspension.

Just in my experience and reading, the mental health profession does a weak job in policing its own.

Hmm. I didn't know any of this stuff. Thanks. I definitely see where things happened and I felt too vulnerable to report them at the time. That is the problem, isn't it? I know that after bad experiences I just felt too darn vulnerable to do anything but slink away. This was great information.