[sidony]

Ugh.

To continue in my ongoing review of group therapy, I should say that last night's session sucked. Just in case you guys want to hear me complain.

I sat there in silence again because I couldn't think of anything to say. I feel so out of place sometimes. This time everyone was discussing their marriage. Because there were a couple of people absent, I was the only unmarried person there. But I've been in relationships, so you'd think I could relate. Well, I couldn't. Everyone was talking about what it's like when they're having trouble communicating and walking on eggshells around their partner. I actually can't relate to that all. All my relationships have been very amicable. Sometimes devoid of substance but always amicable! I only get involved with people who are easygoing. So I had nothing to contribute to that conversation at all and wondered why I was wasting my time. Sometimes I think I stay in group just to avoid terminating. I hate breakups. And that's sort of what I do in relationships -- get into them and stay even when they don't work for me to postpone the ending. So I guess that's what I do with group. Although I'm sure T will argue that that's not a good comparison since a group is there to experiment with and I could probably change things. At any rate, I'll probably stick around a while yet, but last night really blew. I actually wanted to say that I felt out of place (and no doubt T will ask me why I didn't), but there never seemed to be an opening in the conversation and as I've said I'm shy. I hate focusing the attention on me, especially when the only thing I want to say is that I'm out of place and don't have anything to say!

I don't understand people who like to be in group discussions. I can't even relate to wanting to participate. I avoided all discussion classes when I was in school. I just need much longer to think about something than I could get during a conversation. I guess that's why the Internet works for me....!

Well I'm hoping today's individual session will go well. Maybe I'll totally avoid the subject of group therapy. That would probably bug T.

Sidony

Sidney, My idea of hell is group therapy! so I can't really offer any words of wisdom.

[MissCharlotte]

Sidony,

I have never been in group therapy but I would hate it if I were in that group you were in last night!

I think if I were in group I would never say anything to anyone because I believe everyone has a right to how they feel or believe, so I would just sit there and nod. Hmmm.

I hope you're feelng better.

Cheers,

[sidony]

Ugh, individual was as bad as group. Since we ended up talking about group and why I don't say that I'm uncomfortable or that I want things to go differently in a group session, etc. etc. I don't say it because I'm miserably shy and I can't bring myself to interrupt. I don't even want to interrupt. I'd rather not participate than try to get people to cater to my needs. Ugh ugh ugh. No doubt the answer is to talk about some of this stuff, but even if I plan on it I'm likely to change plans once I'm actually in group. UGH.

I know I go back and forth on whether I want to be in group or not. Right now I don't (obviously). I wish I wanted something from the group.

Thanks for the empathy. I appreciate that you guys listen to me whine about this stuff periodically. Sometimes I think I"ve just made a mess of things by starting group.

Sidony

[sunrise]

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Sometimes I think I stay in group just to avoid terminating.

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To avoid terminating group therapy? Or do you mean terminating completely with your therapist for both group and individual? If you were not in your therapist's group, would you still have stuff to work on in your individual therapy?

I think at some point, people become comfortable with who they are, their own degree of shyness, etc. And if they cannot become comfortable with themselves, then maybe that is a reason they seek therapy. It sounds like you feel pressure in group to not be yourself, to not be shy. Is that right? Is your shyness something you are trying to change about yourself and that is why you are in group?

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I hate focusing the attention on me, especially when the only thing I want to say is that I'm out of place and don't have anything to say!

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Well, that makes sense to me. It would almost be rude to try to change the topic to something that is relevant to you and not to the others. Or to state "I'm not interested in this." I completely understand remaining in the background if the conversation is irrelevant to you. Maybe that is just a good social skill you have developed.

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I don't understand people who like to be in group discussions.

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Even it the discussion is on a topic that interests you?

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I just need much longer to think about something than I could get during a conversation.

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But many conversations are about topics you have thought about, so you don't need to think too much on the spot. For example, if you were discussing a movie you recently saw and really liked, you could give your opinion on it because you had already thought about why you liked it. I think many conversations fall into this category. You don't have to dream up a lot of novel thoughts on the spur of the moment.

sidony, I'm sorry your individual session did not go well. Ouch! Maybe next time you can have a mental list of things to talk about with your T (besides group) so there is something for you guys to work on and a way to connect with T. Maybe group needs to stay in group? But since the topic of group seems to be invading your individual sessions, maybe it is indeed very important to you after all. Could that be?

I wish you well with this. (((hugs)))

[sidony]

Hey sunrise,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. It's only group therapy that I ever consider terminating (never individual).

My original reason for seeking therapy was that I want to learn to be closer to people. I tend to keep people at arm's length. Sometimes I'm in a relationship for a long period of time and still feel like the other person is just an acquaintance of mine. And that's the story of many of my relationships. I have a real inability to connect. My therapist has wanted me in group for ages, but I wouldn't agree to it. I told him I was too shy, and he said "that's like saying you're too weak to exercise." But he dropped it, and it was more than a year later before he asked me again to try it.

I hated that I was so terrified at the idea of trying it, so I finally went. Only I guess I didn't really have much of a plan of what I would want other than to stop being so afraid of the idea! Now I'm a little less afraid, but I don't have any desire to participate. In answer to your question, I don't even like group discussions on topics that are interesting to me. I just feel uncomfortable when a group of people are listening to me talk. I'm afraid that I'll say something stupid. Once in a while, there'll be a few minutes of trivial banter and then I'll feel at ease. I'm great with cocktail party conversation. But in group the idea is to talk about how you feel and your own wants and needs. Those I have trouble figuring out for myself much less communicating. And yeah, it's hard for me to change the subject when it's not interesting to me -- that's definitely a social skill.

I told my therapist that it'd probably be helpful if there were some light (more trivial) conversation to start off with in group. So naturally he suggests that I ask for that. Good idea. There's just the minor problem of horrible social anxiety at the thought of trying to dictate a course of action. I never started therapy to work on shyness, but it does get in the way of some other experiments. Anyway.

Even if I had the nerve to explain exactly how I feel, I'm still not sure there's actually anything I want from group therapy. I mean, I've read all the potential gains (self-esteem or what-have-you) and I really don't expect to find those things there. I imagine that I would get those things if I had a different personality and felt comfortable with trying things. Last night I just felt like an alien. But other times I have liked it, so I probably won't quit until I can be sure what to make of it! I waffle around on this subject all the time.

Good idea on keeping a better list of things to talk about. Group is inconveniently a fall-back. Eek!

Thanks for listening.
Sidony

i find it interesting that you say that you couldn't relate to people saying that they felt like they had to 'walk on eggshells' in their relationships...

and then you say that you wouldn't say that you couldn't relate or interrupt the discussion...

and i'm thinking:

what is that if it isn't walking on eggshells??????

sometimes therapy sessions can feel horrible. dull. flat. unprofitable. but sometimes... the real insights / benefits come with processing things afterwards. it might be... that that session was actually very productive... i often find that i don't work so well in real time and it isn't until AFTER therapy that i get the insight that is so helpful...

i find it to be really interesting that your main reason for going to group is to learn to be closer to people.

the main thing that helps one feel closer to people is for one to take a risk with disclosing thoughts / feelings / desires etc and to have that well received.

by not saying anything (by not having anything to say, by not being able to say anything) one is... holding people at arms length.

it might take some time before it occurs to you 'i could say that'. that is when you have a choice point: you could take the risk and say it or you could hold them at arms length by not saying it. gently, gently does it.

a request... isn't dictating a course of action. you might find... that there are other people in group who would like to start with some lighter conversation too. it might be that you notice the more vocal people and don't really notice that some members are quieter - like you.

hang in there.

[sidony]

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alexandra_k said:
and then you say that you wouldn't say that you couldn't relate or interrupt the discussion...

and i'm thinking:

what is that if it isn't walking on eggshells??????

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LOL. My therapist said almost precisely the same thing today. But I'm a heck of a lot more cautious in a group than I am one-on-one in a relationship with an easygoing (<- my only type!) partner. But yeah I try too hard.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sometimes therapy sessions can feel horrible. dull. flat. unprofitable. but sometimes... the real insights / benefits come with processing things afterwards. it might be... that that session was actually very productive... i often find that i don't work so well in real time and it isn't until AFTER therapy that i get the insight that is so helpful...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I hope I do find some insight from this. Right now I'm just stressing about what to do next.

I know I need to take risks. It's the actual doing where I have a problem! Seems I'm hampered by fears or worse: the feeling that there's nothing I want there anyway. That feeling is worse than fear. Fear I think I could get past.

Thanks for writing. You have good suggestions!

Sidony

> I'm a heck of a lot more cautious in a group than I am one-on-one in a relationship with an easygoing (<- my only type!) partner.

Maybe... But then your issue isn't that you want to feel closer / more bonded to a partner, your issue is that you want to feel closer / more bonded to other people in the group.

> I know I need to take risks. It's the actual doing where I have a problem! Seems I'm hampered by fears or worse: the feeling that there's nothing I want there anyway. That feeling is worse than fear. Fear I think I could get past.

I guess there are two parts to the issue:

1) Knowing what is on your mind
2) Sharing what is on your mind

Sometimes my mind goes blank. I simply don't know what to say. I don't know what I'm thinking or how I'm feeling. I think part of that is a defense, however. Sometimes things occur to me and I do know what is on my mind. Then the issue becomes one of sharing what is on my mind.

Sharing what is on your mind (and having others connect with that) is a way of feeling accepted and cared about and bonded to other people.

When one shares one is indeed taking a risk. The risk is that others won't connect with what we are saying. That could result in our feeling isolated and misunderstood and incomprehensible.

Little risks...

[lauren_helene]

Sidony, I'm sorry you are having a hard time.

Group therapy is NOT for me. I have a few questions for you about social anxiety. These are questions for you to ponder and not answer to me or anyone else. I'm just trying to help you dig a bit.

My husband also has social anxiety and he refuses to acknowledge that or consider therapy. He went with me a few times and poof took himself out and refuses to go back. So these questions may have a slight bend on them but it may help you to think about them.

Is the social anxiety impacting functioning for you? Does it prevent you from achieving your goals? Personally and/or professionally?

You may not have gone into group to work on that but it's there. This may not be the group for you. There are support groups for social anxiety specifically or other types of groups that would be more beneficial for you.

I also agree with Alex. You are walking on eggshells but in a different way. If you were married would you feel comfy discussing your needs? or would you keep it to yourself and feel empty and withdrawal from your partner? or can you state what you need in a relationship and keep pushing if your needs go unmet?

You mentioned that your relationships are amiable. Is this because the relationships are more friend-like than a deep emotional connection? Have you unconsciously been avoiding emotional connections?

Just some things to think about. Are you reluctant to terminate group because you go to your T for both group and individual and are afraid of his disappointment?

If you are, you are staying in a situation out of fear then you are not getting your needs met.

I hope this doesn't come off harsh. I want to help but I am doing work stuff too...so it may come off kind of blunt

Hey Sid!

I am wondering a couple of things about the group:

Does your T help the group focus on the process? Meaning, does the group just focus on content (peoples' stories, etc.) or the here-and-now interactions and dynamics of what is going on between members?

Does your T ever confront you in group when you don't participate?

Or does he say, "Sid? What do you think about.......?"

Don't mean to interrogate. Just trying to get a sense of some of the stuff that is going on for you in group.

[sidony]

Hey Almeda!

Thanks for all the food for thought. I know you said I don't have to answer those, but I'll say a few things anyway. Social anxiety really only affects me personally (not so much in my line of work which doesn't involve a lot of social interaction). No, I basically haven't made my needs known in relationships. I didn't even realize how much I kept to myself prior to therapy. But now I'm realizing I didn't even figure out what I needed, much less mention it! Slowly I figure out what would be useful in group, but I have about a million reasons not to mention those things. I think it's mostly social anxiety. Dammit I never wanted to work on social anxiety (being perfectly content to avoid uncomfortable social situations for the rest of my life), but I can't work on the other stuff without doing that at the same time. How frustrating! Yes, I think my therapist would be disappointed if I quit. I also know that I would be disappointed because, in spite of all the crap and the real fear that there may be nothing there that I want, I have some thought that I haven't looked hard enough. Like I should at least give it a real try before blowing it off completely. But apparently I'm going to be a total grouch and whine for weeks on end before I actually start trying. I don't have a clue when I'll suddenly have enough nerve to experiment by saying something that I needed. I may not ever have that and may just get fed up in the interim. And it's a lot of effort to put in when I can't even say for sure what it is that I want there. It just confuses me.

But in the absence of knowing what I want to do, I can often say what I will do. And that is: not quit just yet. Dunno if I'll get anywhere by staying, but that's the current plan for group.

Blah!

Hope this post makes sense as it's late. Just got in and am about to go to bed....

G'night!
Sidony

[sidony]

Hey pinksoil!

I hope you're feeling better. I've been following your posts (sometimes I'm too swamped at work to comment). I hope the depression is lifting some. What a total drag! (And for the umpteenth time, I think you have a wonderful therapist!)

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pinksoil said:
Does your T help the group focus on the process? Meaning, does the group just focus on content (peoples' stories, etc.) or the here-and-now interactions and dynamics of what is going on between members?

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Yes, he often stops the group to focus on how people are interacting. Whether someone is expressing admiration in a roundabout fashion or feeling competitive or even being flirtatious in their interactions. It's often fascinating because it's stuff that's there but I'm not conscious of (too subtle for my awareness).

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Does your T ever confront you in group when you don't participate?

Or does he say, "Sid? What do you think about.......?"

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Yes, he checks in with me. Though he asks me how I feel rather than what I think -- I sure wish he'd ask me what I think! It's much harder for me to express how I feel. Sometimes I just ramble on without making much sense, and then I feel embarrassed about it.

He says he's going to check in with me more often because I'm having such a hard time jumping in. Naturally I dread that (sometimes I'm really unprepared for it when he asks me something in group), but it may be helpful. I think he was trying not to scare me off at first.

So that's a little bit of what goes on. It's all scary stuff for me. And something about fear really pisses me off. I mean, I just get annoyed / mad / irritated / grouchy etc. when I think about group. It's hard to think about trying something when I have this terrible negative attitude settling in on me like a cloud. Maybe I express fear by being angry. I tend to mix the emotions all up and laugh when things are bad, etc. Blah.

Okay before I stop making sense altogether, I must go to bed!

Sidony

[lauren_helene]

Hi Sidony, all you can do is keep going. It is hard to work on issues that are deep inside.

They've been a part of us for so long, it's hard to shake them off.

I hope you're doing well.