[SarahSweden]

I have several things I have to speak to my T about which is about the therapeutic relationship, a relationship that doesn´t feel good and where there is a lack of warmth and empathy.

What are your experiences when you´ve had to talk to your T about something that didn´t feel right between you? Did the T get offensive and tried to defend him-/herself or did you get sympathy for what you felt?

It would be interesting to hear about your experiences as it seems that many clients feel they have the need to talk to their T:s about these things.

I have experience of this with two different therapists and they reacted differently to each other. My first therapist was defensive and blamed me, calling my feelings 'projection', whereas my current therapist always listens, values my feelings and does his best to address whatever is concerning me.
I think the way a therapist reacts to such things is a huge indicator of their competence as therapists.

[Pennster]

I have found it very helpful to talk about rough spots in the relationship. For me a small bit of defensiveness in the initial conversation is not particularly problematic, as sometimes I've taken my therapist a bit off guard and thrown him a bit - but he's consistently responded really well when he has a bit of time to think about it. He is very good at listening and adjusting as needed, and addressing whatever problems have cropped up. A couple of our conversations have been a bit difficult, but we've always been able to work through them, and he has always caught on fairly quickly, even if there have been times when he's had a few minutes of defensiveness after I've surprised him with something he wasn't expecting or I had an unusual reaction to.

In any case, this therapist has been very consistent in demonstrating that he's determined to work with me on tricky spots, and that he's committed to understanding my point of view and figure out how we can resolve things and what will be best for me. Letting him know how I feel has been a really important part of that process.

[musinglizzy]

For some reason, that is the hardest thing for me to talk about with my T, is the T relationship. I feel so shameful when I do it, sometimes she seems defensive, and we just never seem to get anywhere. I often think about bringing it up....but it won't happen today. I see her this afternoon, but after a very crazy, stressful weekend.

I often talk about this with t, she is relational and does supervision this way also.
I have brought my concerns to her on several Ocassions about a lack of empathy and her defensiveness and constant blaming me. Sometimes she listens but 80 % of the time she will blame me by saying these are my projections. I am not blaming her and I of course have projections which I will take out on her but I can see them and admit when I am doing it.
I told t I wanted to quit a few months ago and try a more compassionate therapist who practised person centred approach. T burst out laughing and said good luck with that. At this stage I could feel myself reacting but couldn't resist catching the bait. I asked her what she meant by that, knowing I didn't want to react or want to hear her answer. She said it wouldn't help me, I needed to be pushed. listening, empathy and congruence all encourage a client to stay stuck in their own self pity. I said that is your opinion. You are a fully trained Gestalt therapist and know nothing about that approach, your opinion is biased. I said I know what is best for me and being blamed and condoned is not therapy. For the first time t looked embarrassed, she was speechless and said she never intended to make me feel like that. It moved our work along and she said well that knocked me off my pedestal and we had a laugh about it. Now I tell her when I am feeling blamed or if she is going too far. She said it's my responsibility to meet her at the contact boundary and express my dissatisfaction at the time. If it has thought me anything, t has certainly helped me to find my voice and to express my anger in a healthy way instead of blaming myself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We were getting along fine until they scheduled my apt away on me. I showed up and so they asked me to split a one hr apt. disgusted i left and didnt go back. I haven't a new one yet and now i don't want to start over the process of trust so i am winging it... it is okay for now... but i did like the psychiatrist.. however she was constantly being over booked and i felt she was being stretched too thin.. tc and good luck to you

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I have found that the best thing is to talk to your T about the relationship. I have always talked to mine when something was up and it was so helpful and we resolved things so quickly. It was hard to bring it up at first but it got easier. My T always clarifies, apologizes, and admits her role in the issue.

[PinkFlamingo99]

I always bring these things up because they cause me a ton of anxiety and maybe it's part of my need to be reassured, or part of my need to understand what is real vs. what is my fear talking. I often think relationship things are "wrong" in all my relationships or that people are mad at me. In retrospect though, I do wonder if my constant anxiety over whether she really cared was part of what made my ex-therapist leave finally, or severely change the relationship. One of the last things she said to me was "I wish that love was enough to help you, but it's clearly not."

I agree it's dependent on the therapist and their own strength/knowlege/personal emotional health. But I think these are important discussions to have because we can't always ask these questions so frankly outside of therapy.

I do this everytime I have doubts or fears about the relationship. My new one will not answer if I ask the same thing more than a few times, but she'll always help me come up with evidence and ask what I believe. I know that I struggle a lot with self-esteem and feeling it's okay to have compassion/empathy/sadness for myself, and seeing that she has empathy, or hearing that she finds things I tell her sad really helps me to see it's okay to feel sad for myself instead of constantly blaming myself.

I think it depends on the client's personality too though. She's a specialist in BPD (you can see her name on a few papers posted here, and she works with an older man who is often considered one of the world authorities on BPD... If you google it, his name shows up a few times in the first page of results), and she has said a few times that they believe the best way to deal with BPD is to "hold up a mirror" and help the client separate what is their responsibilty vs. others, but I get really distressed because I blame myself for everything anyway so it's really helpful for me to emphasize the empathy/understanding piece so I can learn the difference between responsibility and blame and know it's okay to feel empathy for myself too.

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I have several things I have to speak to my T about which is about the therapeutic relationship, a relationship that doesn´t feel good and where there is a lack of warmth and empathy.

What are your experiences when you´ve had to talk to your T about something that didn´t feel right between you? Did the T get offensive and tried to defend him-/herself or did you get sympathy for what you felt?

It would be interesting to hear about your experiences as it seems that many clients feel they have the need to talk to their T:s about these things.

It's been different every time, depending on what brought about the problem I was having. If it was an error on her part, she apologized until we sorted it out, but there have been a couple times when she felt it had more to do with issues I brought with me than with her. In that case, it's just a messy thing that takes time to work through.

I will say, though, that the therapy relationship is not the primary thing I would recommend going to see a therapist for. It can become an issue, sure, but walking in and talking about issues with the therapist right off the bat seems like it can't help but get things off to a rocky start. If it's that bad of a fit, then nothing will make it right. Over time, and in the context of going to therapy for issues outside the therapy room (whatever it is that bring a person there), the therapy relationship can be a way to "see" how other relationships in the person's life play out. But I don't see that making it the number one goal before anything of the person's issues are explored, is going to be helpful.

eta: If I had started off feeling that my current therapist was not very empathetic, and I told her that it was a problem for me, I think she would have tried to help me find someone else.

[BudFox]

Prior to termination, discussions with my ex-T about the relationship mostly centered on my worship of her. I was laying it on thick and she was there for me. After termination when I began to point out, in effect, how badly she had devastated me emotionally and psychologically, she became extremely defensive. Eventually she was hostile and erratic in her responses.

If a therapist cannot pass the test of client anger, questioning, criticism then seems to me they are an impostor.

[awkwardlyyours]

I don't know if I've ever really talked about the 'relationship' with my T.

However, recently, she brought up how I was uncomfortable connecting to her. So, in the next session, I decided to tell her exactly how I felt about her -- it was about 30+ mins of my telling her how much I absolutely hated her (I used the word hate); my burning anger towards her; my rock-solid fear that she will manipulate the crap out of me; that I will dissolve and be blown to smithereens if I actually allow myself to connect with her since well, my brain is totally convinced that it is what'll happen; that I feel utterly powerless and vulnerable in relation to her except for the choice to leave since leaving is the only power / choice I have with me; and on and on.

She didn't directly address any of it -- so, no denying, reassuring, etc (thank heavens!). She just maintained her usual cool, questioning, curiosity-driven, somewhat gentle distance.

She did though say that being vulnerable to a stranger for 55 mins a week was a tall order -- so, what I was experiencing wasn't exactly strange. It is stuff like this then that really makes me feel her empathy although her actual demeanor is rather aloof.

We then got to talking about what are the sorts of issues for which the client would benefit from paying attention to the relationship with the therapist.

She said that not all issues need it and not all clients do either and of course, not all therapy techniques use it. But, in my specific case, given my issues with trust, she sort of suggested that looking at the relationship to the therapist might be needed.

All of this (massively long post) then to say -- can you perhaps tell your T what it is exactly that you're feeling towards her (not how you're perceiving her behavior)? I agree with ruh-roh who said that it may not help to focus on the relationship from the get-go but if your T knows how to deal with it, she should be able to redirect it to stuff that is actually at the core of your reasons for being in therapy.

I may be totally wrong and of course you know best as to what you need from your therapist.

[skysblue]

Any ruptures in our relationship has always been the result of my issues that I project onto T. As I began therapy with her she invited me to be open with any problems I may experience with her. At that time, I hadn't understood that it's common and normal to run into my own emotions reflected in my relationship with her - like those same emotions will be reflected on many other relationships.

So, she's always welcomed my bringing up difficulties I'm having with her. in fact, she sees my being able to verbalize and express my problems about her as a sign of progress. The progress being - recognizing my emotions and then finding the courage to address them.

I have a hard time risking confrontation or conflict. Practicing finding my voice in session has been very helpful. Fear of consequences in RL and also with T. But with T it is always a safe place

So, not only does she welcome me talking about my painful experiences with her, she encourages it.

And she's always compassionate and invites me to explore those emotions. And, if she recognizes that she made a mistake, she will always apologize.

[stopdog]

The first one sucks at it - she gets defensive and huffy.
The second one asks and recognizes where she went off in the wrong way.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I have several things I have to speak to my T about which is about the therapeutic relationship, a relationship that doesn´t feel good and where there is a lack of warmth and empathy.

What are your experiences when you´ve had to talk to your T about something that didn´t feel right between you? Did the T get offensive and tried to defend him-/herself or did you get sympathy for what you felt?

It would be interesting to hear about your experiences as it seems that many clients feel they have the need to talk to their T:s about these things.

How are things going, Sarah? Any better?

My experiences talking about the therapeutic relationship have gone better than I ever could have expected. I walked into my last session with a lot of (justified, I think) criticism for my T--more than I personally could have taken without becoming defensive or belligerent. He was very good about it, though. Humble without groveling. Contrite without being, well, just plain trite. I felt understood and left with a greater respect for him.

I've had those kinds of discussions with my therapists throughout my therapy -- they were just a matter of our typical give and take, so they were never of any problem. We didn't spend a lot of time discussing the relationship as there was never any problem there, but there were many times we did discuss problems I had with an approach or topic or something I felt they weren't quite understanding (or vise versa). That's just part of communicating and was a great part of what made things work for me in therapy; I felt free to be open with them and they were quite willing to hear me.

You know, when you do that as a matter of routine and regular communication, those kinds of discussions really aren't a big deal; but when you don't communicate as a matter of routine, it turns those discussions into something out of the ordinary for both of you, thus the reason being open as much as possible helps normalize the interactions you have.

From what you have told us here, you seem to keep a lot to yourself and sort of expect the therapist to instinctively figure things out that are bothering you which sets up a situation where you resent the therapist for not instinctively figuring it out and where when you finally do bring it up, your resentment is so great that the conversation becomes bigger/heavier than it really needed to be in the first place. I hope you can find a way to simply communicate and advocate for yourself on a regular basis -- communication has to go both ways. I'm glad you are willing to finally try to be open.