Therapist says I'm abusive

NO. I'm sorry, but a patient being quiet and upset at the start of a therapy session is NOT abusive. I can believe how studies support the idea that silent maliciously planned silent treatment as a PATTERN (which would be neglectful. Neglectful which is different but can be as damaging as abuse)
But to say that someone is being ABUSIVE if they come into their therapy session and sulk?? Please.

Uhhhh....the OP was NOT being abusive. Come on! She was scared, filled with anxiety, and probably one of her default moves when she feels triggered in this way is to shut down. Mine is. That is VERY different than the silent treatment. I should know, as my mom was an expert at it.
Exactly.
Ugh. I wish you;d stop seeing this T! (sorry, tangent)
YES.

If you could just say the perfect thing you could convince her how worthy you are? Sound about right? I've been there, my T followed this pattern very often and swung between being caring and having little empathy for me. She made me feel I was wrong and when I had a closing call to end things well for me she said I bullied her.

What she is doing is abusive, just being nice enough to keep you on the hook and keep you loving her but not actually caring enough to be effective in any way.

Sometimes we all feel very big feelings and a lot of emotion, the service we PAY for is to be helped with those feelings and work them out. What we don't pay for is to be retraumatised and further hurt by being rejected for having feelings. We are already hard enough on ourselves most of the time that having someone else be hard on us is not helpful.

When I was finally dumped from my T I felt overwhelming relief. It is exhausting to try and be perfect so someone doesn't reject you. The time and effort that goes into that is mentally draining. It feels as though you can't make it without this person finally seeing you and approving of you but you can 100%.

Yes, you absolutely can want that and deserve it. It is perfectly ok for a therapist to be "quirky" or "more emotionally intimate" or "outside the box" or whatever. And for you as a client to be DRAWN to that quality.....but if a therapist CANNOT be those things without maintaining a standard level of care then they need to either retool their professional identity until they can maintain standards, or they need to leave the profession.

I do not know if you are abusive. Abusive is a very strong word. In this one example, I do not see that you abused her.
I think if she had genuine concerns that you were abusive then she had the professional obligation to de-escalate the situation. And then she should have approached you in a calm professional manner about developing a treatment plan for abusive behavior.

I respect that fact that you have deef affection for her, that is hard to let go of. But you shouldn't have to walk on eggshells in your therapy. She needs to learn to keep a cool head....perhaps in her own therapy...before she can help you.

You deserve more support than whatever this one is doing. There are ones out there who are not this abusive.

Anyone who thinks this is abuse is probably abusive themselves. I hope you can find the courage to do what is best for you.

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As many have posted, I think your therapist is in waaaaay over her head in dealing effectively with your therapy. Nothing you describe is in any way abusive in a therapy relationships. The reason we go to therapy, in most cases, is because we're struggling to deal effectively with life situations, often relationships. The thing that really stood out for me is that you mentioned that your therapist stated that she "understood" maternal transference because she experienced it in her own therapy, and while telling you this, her eyes teared up and she had to grab a tissue. That is a pretty big red flag that tells me that your therapist has not dealt with her OWN maternal transference issues in her own therapy. This might be some of what is getting in the way of your therapy with her. She acts giving and empathetic, encouraging and fostering your maternal transference, but when you challenge her emotionally, she has a melt-down and lashes out at you verbally. "How dare you not be appreciative of my good loving!" That is abusive in my book. She's not doing this vindictively--it's her OWN issues getting in the way. Not okay in any way, shape or form for her to accuse you of being abusive. Being abusive is physically attacking her, throwing things, stalking her etc. and even then, a well, trained and capable therapist would know how to handle "acting out" behaviors like that. I called my therapist a "F'ing *****" under my breath when I left a session one day. I told her about it when I saw her the next time and she calmly said, "It's okay. Sometimes I can be an F'ing *****. But I think when you said it was because you often get tired of hammering away at yourself internally with those kinds of insults and name calling. Sometimes it's just better to direct it me and next time, I hope you feel okay about saying it to my face. I promise you that I can handle it. The world won't end and we can take a real look at it together."

It's fine for a therapist to have "gone through transference" (maternal, paternal, erotic etc) in his/her own therapy, but I sure wouldn't want my therapist to be so overwhelmed with personal emotions in my session that he/she needed to cry while describing it to me. My own therapist has responded to my questions about her own experience with therapy in a very straight-forward honest manner, but her demeanor and speech let me know that she had successfully dealt with the tough stuff and grew from it. It isn't an emotionally laden subject that reduces her to tears (at least she was able to physically and emotionally present herself in that manner). That allows the client to learn something about her therapist experience, but it isn't so emotionally loose and flowing that it impinges on the client's emotional needs.

I really hope you feel that you can work this through with her or at least find another therapist who is more supportive and trained to deal with the very very normal transference issues that you're describing. You deserve better!

The OP said she didnt name-call, etc, therefore she wasnt abusive. I was just letting her know that the silent treatment IS abusive - i wasnt saying SHE was being abusive. If she didnt think it was abusive, clearly her intent was missing. I wasnt crucifying her for it. But sheesh some people sure crucified me for trying to educate her (not you velcro - my mother was an expert at the silent treatment too, as we have discussed). I was not HINTING she was being abusive. I said what i meant and i meant what i said, relative to the OP. like Oprah says, when you know better, you do better. But if the best the OP can do in session is the silent treatment, im not going to judge her one way or the other. e

Thanks Jaybird. I hear you. I think I feel protective, though, of my therapist and the feelings she shared with me. In the moment, when she got emotional, it meant a lot to me that she felt like she could be vulnerable with me, and to think that we were both in the same boat. She wasn't an adversary; she was another struggling person, who understood what it was like to grow up with a ****** mother and attach to a therapist. I told her that I felt like it was "useless" to feel pained over my relationship with her, and that SOME people seem to be perfectly capable of just deciding, "You know what, this is a pointless feeling, I'm not going to have it anymore." And she said, "I think there are many more of us who just feel our feelings, and the best we can do is try to maintain some semblance of control" - and she said it with this sort of twinkle in her eye, like she GOT it.

But I guess I do wonder if she's worked through everything/if maybe something is surfacing now that's making it harder for her to maintain control. She's in her mid-fifties, so her mother must be older. Maybe her mom is facing health issues, and that's bringing stuff up for T? Maybe she identifies with me, and that makes it harder for her to keep her feelings separate?

I guess, ultimately, I want my well-being to be more important to her than her triggered feelings. If she feels triggered, I want her to be able to push through it and be there for me, for my sake. I want to be worth that.

I'm really envious of the story you told about calling your T an "effing *****." I couldn't say something like that to my T, unless I made it very clear that I know it's an inappropriate thing to say, I don't mean to hurt her feelings, I just want to examine it, etc. If I present something in a detached, analytical sort of way, she can pretty much follow my lead. If I'm emotional, she follows my lead, too.

I get what you're saying about feeling "protective" of your therapist, notwithhaste. Boy, do I get it. In my family, that's what love cost--I needed to be aware and protective of my parents. I needed to mind my p's and q's at all times. It wasn't okay to express my anxiety, fears, anger or even intense love, and it sure wasn't okay to express those things when I needed something from them, but I dang better be so attuned to their feelings and needs that I could turn myself into a pretzel to accommodate them. I LOVE my parents. They are good people, they just weren't great at parenting or helping their children soothe or comfort themselves or get their needs met without intense feelings of shame and humiliation. . . not to mention what my abuser did to create havoc with those emotions!

The thing I'm learning with my current therapist is that I truly don't have to turn myself into a pretzel or hide my true emotions because of fear that she will be offended, hurt or angry by what I need to express. I'm the queen of living inside my head--intellectualizing and analyzing everything, but that hasn't helped me live my life in the way I'd like to. I'm learning to lean into the pain of being vulnerable to another person and to examine why that leaning in is so painful and shaming for me. I couldn't do the work if I was still worrying about whether or not my therapist was going to dump me. We have very frank talks about what her commitment is to me--she doesn't tell me that she'll never leave me or that she "loves" me and thinks about me all the time. But she does let me know that, baring any "life situations", she's in this for the long haul, and she isn't offended by expressions of anger or rage, that name calling isn't going to change who she knows herself to be (so if I call her an "f'ing *****", she's strong enough within herself that she knows that isn't the case), and although she's human and admits that she can get frustrated by my continued testing of her commitment, she isn't going to yell at me or call me names or dump me. We even have frequent conversations about me "dumping" her or "firing" her and how she doesn't want that to happen, she wants me to talk it through with her, but if I decide that's the right action for me to take, she'll be sad to see me leave, but she will respect it. She won't chase me, we've even talked about that, but she enjoys working with me and will miss our sessions. Will she pine away from me leaving? No, I get that. But what I get also is that she's open to talking about ANYTHING I'm feeling and nothing I have to say about our work is off limits or wrong. When a therapist tells us to trust them and then puts qualifications on how that information can be presented, I think that's when therapy gets stuck and unproductive. But I do understand how hard it would be to question your therapist's motives and ability to do therapy in a productive manner because she has been very giving in the soothing, loving, empathetic department--but in the long run, it's how our therapist handle our anger, rage and disappointment that is so very very important. That is where the real work and healing happens, at least in my opinion!

Welp, she answered my emails.

"I'm sorry the last session was so hard. I certainly didn't mean to hurt your feelings and am sorry that I did. Please do come in on Monday so we can talk about what happened."

I don't know.

Is that...sufficient? Not really. Do I feel like, if I go in on Monday, this is likely to go well for me? Not unless I do some serious calming down before then. Right now, I'm such an anxious mess, I keep dropping everything because my hands are shaking so much, my stomach is in a million knots, I can't go ten mins without tearing up...

Part of me feels like just answering her, "No thanks." But then I'll get really upset about not seeing her, and probably take it back. She's where I go for comfort. When she "turns" like this, I want to make the "comforting her" come back, to soothe how upset I feel. But of course, she's going to say that she's always the same - within a range, but always the same person - and I'm the one who's "splitting" her. And maybe I am. But from my perspective, sometimes she's my safe haven, and sometimes approaching her just leads to more pain.

I know no one here is going to tell me I should go to the session. I wish I were strong.

Ugh. You are in a tough position, I feel for you. I hate that you have to try and hide your emotions from your T...that is NOT therapy!

This is hard, and you are strong

But how did she give her T the silent treatment? She said she was anxious and nervous and upset, and couldn't talk about what was wrong--she was afraid of inciting the T. That is NOT silent treatment. As you said, you know what it is. The person is consciously ignoring you, no matter what. The OP wasn't ignoring her T. She was upset. Yes, she declined a hug, but she shouldn't hug if she doesn't want to.

When you write a sentence "Silent treatment is abusive," as an absolute statement to her post, it certainly comes off as you were telling her she was being abusive.

Exactly!!!!!

One of the most helpful posts I've read on this forum.

Well, I would say you could go and see what she says. She may not want to address it over e-mail. I just wouldn't expect too much...

Paralyzed by fear does not equal silent treatment. Paralyzed by fear does not equal abuse.

Are you all complaining because i EXPLAINED that the silent treatment is abusive, so now you cant use it anymore without feeling quilty about it?

Read the OP. Please stop quoting little parts of it to me. Read the whole thing, as i have several times today. Why would i act like an ahole to this person? If you have read my posts, you would know that my longterm t said it took me 2 or 3 years before i started talking to her. You guys are amateurs at giving the silent treatment compared to me! I was relieved when i FINALLY like 30 years later found a book about it. You learn the silent treatment from being on the receiving end of it. Maybe thats why my posts are terse. But dont confuse terse with hostile.

I don't think your post was at all supportive of the OP but now understand what you were getting at. I don't think you are an ahole.

Everyone here is perfectly capable of deciding what hostile is. Constantly defending one's salt-in-wound act must be exhausting.

Im glad i can once again provide your weekends entertainment. Im gonna start charging admission.

I dont think i deserve to have my sincerity doubted. Ie to be called a liar. Some people withhold when they post. The OP did not. So i also answered frankly. But i did not agree with her conclusion.

The great thing about these forums is that one can post "their own" ideas and beliefs. Everyone has a different take on situations and that's okay. What isn't okay is to call a member out in an unsupportive way because you don't agree with their personal belief.

Please, let's keep this thread on topic and leave out the personal attacks.

Thanks!

I wasn't calling you a liar or you weren't sincere, i apologize if you felt that way. I was just teling you my perception of it.

My therapist has never called me abusive, but when I look back on my younger self (around your age) and in therapy with my first therapist, I can see that I lashed out a lot, called her incompetent. She was, in fact, incompetent and/or inexperienced (I don't know which because she gave up her practice--so I think she sort of figured it out on her own). This was well before trauma was considered as a cause of symptoms, and that therapist was new and utterly lost. Regardless, I was a mess and she was not going to be the person to help me right my ship.

I share that because, from reading your account, your therapist doesn't sound able to help you. The problem is, she also seems to be as enmeshed as you are in the relationship.

Yes, a client should be able to be angry and go through a range of emotions and not have the therapist react or retaliate, but the reality is that not all of them are skilled enough to navigate a client through that without getting (as you say) caught up. So, there is the ideal (which some people are able to find--good for them), and there is the reality, which leaves clients with therapists who have a lot of limitations.

I'm really sorry for the pain you're in. Is there anyway you can get back to issues that took you to therapy? Things outside your relationship? Because if you're not able to leave (which would probably be the healthiest option), that's one way to untangle this.

Hi again, all. I hope it's okay that I keep posting. I don't mean to be a pain in the butt. I really appreciate all of your support.

I was just wondering if anyone could let me know if it sounds like I was abusive in these scenarios? These are the situations that led my T to threaten to end the relationship. Whatever you think, please feel free to be honest - I just ask that you please don't attack me. I'm really not sure; maybe I really was abusive to her. I don't think I was entirely innocent.

1. Background: I sent my T a rather angry email. I told her that I hated her and hated her daughter. I also expressed some very depressive thoughts - that my T already knew about, and she had been trying to convince me to see a psychiatrist, but I felt uncomfortable with the idea of being on meds. I was having this meltdown because, from my perspective, my T had invited me to depend on her...I saw her as a mother figure. (Loose boundaries for the first 8 months or so, we were in touch over email almost every day...and I think I just really needed to believe that I had a mom of sorts.) A couple of weeks prior, she told me that she wouldn't always be able to be there for me - that something could happen, and she could move, or get a different job...and, if that happened, we wouldn't keep in touch. I guess maybe I should have known that, should have kept my head on straight, but I didn't. It came as a huge shock, and I was distraught. That's the context in which I sent her that email.

We had a phone session after I sent the email, and she was angry with me. She raised her voice at me for failing to see a psychiatrist, and for lashing out at her. I was crying and begging her to stop, but she kept going. She said that she doesn't understand why I keep coming back because I hate her so much, and she expressed that "maybe we should just call it quits." That scared the **** out of me.

In the sessions that followed, I tried to explain how scary it was. I didn't feel like she got it, and I was getting increasingly upset. Then one week, she told me that I had "provoked" her; i.e., that it was my fault that she had yelled. To me, that raised a thousand alarm bells. I felt very angry and distrustful. So, the next session, I came in and told her exactly what I thought. I said something to the effect of, "I'm not okay with the way you treat me. It's your job to help me through my feelings, not to scold me for expressing them. Telling me that I provoked you into yelling is a move straight out of the Abusive Parenting Handbook - trying to make me feel that I 'made' you do it."

That was when she said, "I cannot work with you anymore. I'll give you referrals." I had a total meltdown, apologized up and down, told her that I loved her...I would have said anything to make her stay. And she did. She ended the session by looking at me kindly and saying, "I don't want to leave. Can you try to hold onto me this week, to carry me with you?"

2. Background: My T had been seeing me for a significantly reduced fee. In the beginning, she was seeing me in the mornings - but then I switched jobs and could only do evening appointments. One week, I expressed that I was struggling and asked for an extended session. That's something we used to do sometimes, meet for a full hour. It was never a big deal; if she could accommodate me, we just pro-rated the fee. But she didn't want to do it this time, and it didn't really seem to be about availability. She said, "Unless there's a reason to have an extended session, I think it's best to stick to 45 mins." I got upset - is "I'm struggling" not a good enough reason now, and I just didn't get the memo? That's when it all came spilling out - turns out, T was feeling pretty resentful about seeing me in the evenings at a reduced fee. She got angry...said that I expect too much of her, that she already gives a lot to me for very little in return, etc. I felt really hurt - like a nuisance, a burden, etc.

Next week, she said that she'd "felt badly" about the way she raised the issue of the fee - but that she really would like to talk about raising it. But it wouldn't be immediate, and we could talk about it, etc.

We didn't really talk about it. I didn't want to. The way she initially raised the issue had felt tremendously hurtful, but she had kind of apologized, and I didn't want to make her feel attacked. At the same time, I couldn't get over it. Her words replayed over and over in my head.

So, one week, I tried to talk about it. And she didn't even remember saying those things to me! She said, "I've been doing this for a long time, and that isn't how I would talk to a client about raising her fee. I'm not saying it's impossible that I said those things, but I'm saying it's unlikely." But she also couldn't tell me what she DID say; i.e., couldn't really remember the conversation at all. Which could be fine, if she weren't insisting that my memory is most likely faulty, when I DO have memories of what happened, and they've been haunting me for weeks. It devolved into a fight. Then she left on vacation. I decided to drop it.

Fast forward a couple of months. She tells me she wants to talk about raising the fee. I feel upset - because I'm reminded of a) the hurtful things she said, and b) how gaslit I felt by her subsequent claim that I was likely remembering it all wrong. I'd tried to just sweep it under the rug, but that became a lot harder once she'd raised the topic. I got upset with her. She told me that she thought we'd already discussed this and resolved it. I said that we had not at all resolved it. And then she laughed to herself, kind of bitterly, and said, "You know, I just don't think I can work with you anymore." I started sobbing and begging her not to do this. She said, "I keep trying and trying, and you just keep pushing me away. It makes me not want to show up anymore." (Her eyes even watered momentarily...she seemed genuinely upset.) I felt awful, so I apologized, told her I was an asshole, etc. She calmed down, and said that we need to find a new way to navigate these situations - that she doesn't want me to sweep things under the rug for fear of upsetting her; at the same time, when I'm always upset with her, she feels like a whipping post. I agreed to the raised fee, and that was that.

She is emotionally abusive to you is how I see it. Unless a client is stalking or hitting a therapist - I don't think they are being abusive. Therapy is advertised as being a place where a client can say anything and not be punished by a therapist for it. Granted, not all therapists are capable of doing what they say they can.