Study on the effects of bad therapy

unaluna · Jul 11, 2016, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puzzle_bug1987

This it very true. It's a type of abuse in itself. Very sad.

Butthurt is just butthurt. It is not "extreme pain". Extreme pain is extreme pain, whether physical or psychological. Pain is also on a continuum. Sheesh.

Jul 11, 2016, 12:37 PM

Una, I am asking if you could please delete that quote. Please, for all kindness and compassion. You are calling someone here a perpetrator, as you pointed out on a thread over the weekend. It's not right.

unaluna · Jul 11, 2016, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seahorse

Una, I am asking if you could please delete that quote. Please, for all kindness and compassion. You are calling someone here a perpetrator, as you pointed out on a thread over the weekend. It's not right.

That quote haunts me every time i read a post. Could you please delete it from my brain?

Jul 11, 2016, 12:43 PM

I am really sorry you are triggered. But it's not a reason to call out someone here as a perpetrator. Please Una. That can be so hurtful to someone.

Jul 11, 2016, 01:05 PM

I found this about the word "butthurt" :

"The truth is that “butthurt,” while having its limited uses, has always been about dismissing, trivializing, and belittling someone you don’t agree with. It is supposedly used to describe someone who reacts strongly to some trivial insult or other situation, but who decides how trivial that insult or situation is? The person applying the label, of course. Essentially, what you are doing when you call someone “butthurt” is saying, “I don’t care about seeing things from your point of view. I’m going to impose my worldview on you instead.” In that sense, it is, I suppose, a form of domination."

From here: Liminality... the space in between | Archive Entry #283

stopdog · Jul 11, 2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unaluna

I dont think anybody is "for" abusive therapists or bad therapy.

Therapy quality is on a continuum. At one end, a t can be sent to prison. Or Lose his license forever. Or for a while. Or have their practice restricted by age or gender. Or get bad yelp reviews. Or whatever.

What is bothering ME is that it seems to ME that we are NOT talking about truly abusive therapists in the so-called repetitive threads. We are talking about "normal" things that happen in therapy.

Therapy is about feelings. Feelings get hurt. Just like dentistry is about teeth and when you go to the dentist, yeah your teeth might get hurt. Oh your gums? Well they are intimately connected to your teeth. As is the rest of your BEING. You cant separate out this feeling from that feeling, say that a t is only allowed to look at this emotion or reaction.

That isnt how a human being works. It doesnt make sense to blame dentistry or psychology, that they didnt WARN you that you were human, just because you were surprised or embarrassed or butthurt. Because that is ALL the info you have shared with us, and yes, i judge you. I have been there and done that, and i have been abused. And to call someone abusive unjustly is to insult those who were truly abused.

I don't do therapy the way you describe it - but even if one does - I still believe the therapists do not give adequate warning/informed consent about what happens in therapy. What is usual therapists are idiot humans versus this is not usual idiot therapist human behavior. What can they really help with versus what do they simply hope they don't make worse? What is it that is being done to the client by the therapist? Are they trying to do brain stuff at the client - change synapses or are they not? I want to know if the therapist is trying to do something to my brain. I might not want that. And who here is the final judge about what is or is not abusive? Certainly I would not turn that decision over to any other poster here. I completely disagree that just because one person thinks something is abusive that someone else does not is an insult to others who feel they were abused in other ways. Good lord, yours is not the only way and just because you understand and do therapy for one way or purpose or what you find abusive or not does not make that universal.

Jul 11, 2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtrain0802

Abusive therapist and bad therapy are not the same thing.

How do you know the OP isn't tell us the entire story or the circumstances why they believe to be bad therapy?

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At the risk of getting into an argument I have no interest in whatsoever, I would like to make it clear that:

1. I am a woman, not a man.

2. I did not post because I have had bad experiences in therapy. I posted because I thought the article was interesting.

3. I'm glad you have a BSc. Again, without wishing to sound petty, I have a PhD and about 25 years experience in healthcare, but not in mental health. I have a passing acquaintance with research terminology.

4. Here are the study details. Yes, they are qualitative measures|

https://www.shef.ac.uk/scharr/sectio...h/adeptproject

Apologies all, but I think I'm going to ask the mods to close this thread because it seems to be upsetting everyone so much. Sincere apologies for any distress caused, that was not my intent. Just to share something from the UK that I thought you might find interesting in the US as our systems are so different.

Good wishes to all

stopdog · Jul 11, 2016, 01:35 PM

I am glad the study was posted. Thanks

here today · Jul 11, 2016, 01:41 PM

Thank you for posting the link, too, before this thread gets closed. I thought it was very interesting, the website they made on Safe Therapy is interesting, too. Thanks for sharing. As you know, we here in the USA have no agency to take a comprehensive look at things. Glad you do. :-)

junkDNA · Jul 11, 2016, 02:09 PM

Why can't we just agree to disagree? Pro therapy posters aren't going to persuade anti therapy posters. So people have differing opinions and perspective. That is natural. It just seems like this topic has been a dead horse for a while now, yet people just want to keep flogging it.

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stopdog · Jul 11, 2016, 02:12 PM

This was actually a study that was very interesting to me. And the horse is not dead -some of us still find it interesting and useful to discuss. The fact it has so many posts would seem to support it. If it is not interesting to someone, no need to read it.

junkDNA · Jul 11, 2016, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

This was actually a study that was very interesting to me. And the horse is not dead -some of us still find it interesting and useful to discuss. The fact it has so many posts would seem to support it. If it is not interesting to someone, no need to read it.

it just seems like a really circular argument that will never end

but to each their own!

Jul 11, 2016, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkDNA

Why can't we just agree to disagree? Pro therapy posters aren't going to persuade anti therapy posters. So people have differing opinions and perspective. That is natural. It just seems like this topic has been a dead horse for a while now, yet people just want to keep flogging it.

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I'm not anti-therapy. I'm anti-take someone's voice away. And pro-system improvement. Lot's of sides here. Maybe there should be a poll for this?

missbella · Jul 11, 2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkDNA

Why can't we just agree to disagree? Pro therapy posters aren't going to persuade anti therapy posters. So people have differing opinions and perspective. That is natural. It just seems like this topic has been a dead horse for a while now, yet people just want to keep flogging it.

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I see no need for anyone to persuade anyone of anything. However, a pocket of people here want to discuss what they perceive are foundational and systemic issues in mental health treatment. I feel we should be able to do that without name calling, "diagnosis," accusations and other disruption that repeatedly have shut down threads. It's basic respect.

stopdog · Jul 11, 2016, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkDNA

it just seems like a really circular argument that will never end

but to each their own!

For some, the fun is not in solving it directly -but sometimes going over and over does help someone get it out and then they can move on. Also sometimes there are small shifts in the positions and the wording and the persuasiveness etc.
Of course, I make and listen to repetitive arguments for a living, so perhaps that raises my tolerance.

And I am not actually anti-therapy. I am anti blindly accepting it and going in without sufficient knowledge, information, and admittance by those people about what it is they actually do. I have never said that someone who feels helped by it has not been. If therapy is helping someone in the way they want to be helped - then have at it.

junkDNA · Jul 11, 2016, 02:28 PM

i see some discussion, but i also see a lot of argument and persuasive writing. im not saying its not ok to discuss or debate the issue. i think it's a good thing to discuss. i have noticed, though, that some people are taking offense at this and it just becomes an argument from then on causing the thread to get shut down

divine1966 · Jul 11, 2016, 02:29 PM

My t actually discussed with me what we will be doing in therapy after I told her what I need and then we discussed what's going to happen in general terms. I am surprised people appear to go to therapy a week after week a year after a year not having a clue what's going on? I can't imagine continue going to sessions not knowing what's happening? If in fact that's what the case is, I highly recommend people ask their Ts what's happening in sessions.

Very puzzling to me. I am sorry people end up with Ts who don't disclose what's going on, it's hard to understand why people keep attending sessions not knowing what's going on. Puzzling to me. What did people think therapy was going to be like before they started? What type of warning would they need?

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stopdog · Jul 11, 2016, 02:31 PM

It is not always as easy as asking. In my experience, they are often not forthcoming no matter how directly a client asks. Further just because one person cannot imagine something does not mean another has not experienced it. I cannot imagine all sorts of things people report on here - but I don't deny their experience of it. I might not do it or keep doing it or whatever - but that does not mean they should not be respected for what they experience.

Jul 11, 2016, 02:34 PM

I've stayed out of this, just trying to read what everyone has to say and gain some understanding from the various perspectives. I just want to interject that it would be nice for the name-calling to stop on all fronts, including things like "idiot therapists" and things like those on "that" side said this; those on "that" side said that. I just see no usefulness for the name-calling on any level, and there is plenty going on on BOTH sides of the debate. Lots of finger pointing without much real hearing and dialoguing. There needs to be more willingness to truly listen -- it seems to be a lost art in all segments of our society these days and endemic of what we see going on on a larger scale. That's all I'm going to say on it as I really don't want to get pulled into the fray.

stopdog · Jul 11, 2016, 02:38 PM

I would agree about calling any poster an idiot. But idiot therapists is not at any person here. And my whole sentence was
"What is usual therapists are idiot humans versus this is not usual idiot therapist human behavior." I meant idiot human therapist when I wrote it. I did not even call any individual therapist an idiot. I was including them in the idiocy of humanity (which I believe exists). I think some are specifically idiots but that is not what I said. I don't have any problem if anyone wants to describe any professions with such descriptor. Smelly baseball players, sneaky lawyers, wonky accountants, lying politicians etc.
But I agree completely about not referring to any poster like that.

Pennster · Jul 11, 2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966

My t actually discussed with me what we will be doing in therapy after I told her what I need and then we discussed what's going to happen in general terms. I am surprised people appear to go to therapy a week after week a year after a year not having a clue what's going on? I can't imagine continue going to sessions not knowing what's happening? If in fact that's what the case is, I highly recommend people ask their Ts what's happening in sessions.

Very puzzling to me. I am sorry people end up with Ts who don't disclose what's going on, it's hard to understand why people keep attending sessions not knowing what's going on. Puzzling to me. What did people think therapy was going to be like before they started? What type of warning would they need?

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I had no idea what therapy with my first therapist was going to be like. I thought maybe I would go in and talk and he would help me with things somehow, but it was all vague to me. I didn't even know what I was "supposed" to be talking about. I would have liked some warning before I started in with the emotional flashbacks and the retraumatization. I particularly would have appreciated it if his mode of working would have allowed him to make specific concrete suggestions about what I might do to help myself when all this stuff started happening. I had no idea what I was doing but as I was desperate for help and getting worse with nowhere else to turn, I kept going.

In contrast, I had a great idea what therapy with my current therapist was going to be like, because I read my therapist's book beforehand. He is completely transparent and very helpful, and has a whole set of techniques he uses and is totally open about sharing.

FooZe · Jul 11, 2016, 03:04 PM

This thread has been closed at the OP's request.

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Study on the effects of bad therapy

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