[musinglizzy]

I have to go back and check the post about my T using her phone during session. I got this Email from her this morning. She is trying to get me to come in today (even though I canceled with her on Tuesday). Is it too much to ask for her undivided attention for 50 minutes? Therapy is the only place I get that. I understand emergencies, definitely. But unless there is one, I would appreciate if she would just silence her phone during session and not pay attention to it. Or file her nails, or whatever. I would love some thoughts on this statement... (and she will never let me live it down that she had to cut a recent session short. I was vulnerable, and was not aware it would only be 5 minutes... and she had me feeling pretty pathetic over that one. I'm starting to feel sorry for my therapists, and what I put them through.)

One of the challenges in functional relationships (like ours) is that no one is perfect, and we have to be able to tolerate minor departures from the ideal without letting our basic trust in the relationship be shaken. That is your job with me. Can you invest in the "good enoughness" of our bond to be able to go with it when I have to cut a session short or be available to my child during your session. It isn't about a life-long test of loyalty, it is about feeling safe enough in a sustained way to be able to be flexible. You are not there yet, but you will be.

I don't feel great about her email, tbh. I personally don't like that she is making your perfectly reasonable request that she is not constantly available to others during your sessions into you somehow not being sufficiently invested in your therapy. From what you told us before, this is not about a lack of flexibility on your part when she has to be available for some emergency, it is about her not agreeing to let your session time be about you. If she always keeps her phone visible to her and allows it to divert her attention regularly, that is not minor. It is not your job to make her pay attention to you. It is her job to do that regardless.

[ruh roh]

She's messing with your head, as per usual.

Her child has no place in your therapy. This isn't the first time she's done that. Didn't she talk to her daughter's therapist on the phone in front of you, once?

I guess if it were me, I would ask myself: does having this person (therapist) in my life deplete me and make me feel worse, or does having her in my life make me feel strong and capable within myself? In other words, does this relationship give me energy or drain it?

Her mind games with you are not going to end. But you can end your exposure to them/her.

[JaneTennison1]

Blah blah therapy blah. She's making excuses for why it's your fault that she can't turn her dang phone off. She can switch her phone so it only makes a noise if she gets a call and then tell her daughter to call in an emergency. You don't have to learn to be ok with a therapist who acts this way. I wouldn't pay my dentist for his time spent texting.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

I have to go back and check the post about my T using her phone during session. I got this Email from her this morning. She is trying to get me to come in today (even though I canceled with her on Tuesday). Is it too much to ask for her undivided attention for 50 minutes? Therapy is the only place I get that. I understand emergencies, definitely. But unless there is one, I would appreciate if she would just silence her phone during session and not pay attention to it. Or file her nails, or whatever. I would love some thoughts on this statement... (and she will never let me live it down that she had to cut a recent session short. I was vulnerable, and was not aware it would only be 5 minutes... and she had me feeling pretty pathetic over that one. I'm starting to feel sorry for my therapists, and what I put them through.)

One of the challenges in functional relationships (like ours) is that no one is perfect, and we have to be able to tolerate minor departures from the ideal without letting our basic trust in the relationship be shaken. That is your job with me. Can you invest in the "good enoughness" of our bond to be able to go with it when I have to cut a session short or be available to my child during your session. It isn't about a life-long test of loyalty, it is about feeling safe enough in a sustained way to be able to be flexible. You are not there yet, but you will be.

Unless her child has a life threatening illness, a major disability, or was somehiw stranded in NY ala Kevin McAlister, she does NOT need to be available every single second. Im a veterinarian who treats equine emergency cases that can be life or death and i STILL silence my phone in session for both of us. If it rings over abd over i might excuse myself to check it but seriously. 50 minutes of phone silence and not looking at it is not too much to ask. Its basic courtesy.
You are basically paying for her undivided attention.

As far as leaving early. Unless it happens all the time you have to roll with those things though it can be hard. My T knows from experience to tell me those sort of things ar the start of the sessiom so i can work through my abandonment feelings.

The thjng that bothers me the most there is your "never let me live it down" comment. Thats not therapeutic. My T NEVER throws my sometimes childish responses back in my face. That really disturbs me

[Pennster]

I would ask her about why her nails were so urgent. Seriously. I wouldn't let that one go.

I would feel seriously patronized by that email. And her performance is simply not "good enough".

[BayBrony]

I mean, it sounds like her KID needs boundaries. I learned by age 7 that if i called my mom at work id best be 1. So sick she had to get me from school 2. In need of a trip to the emergency room 3. In imminent danger

Like really. Why is she putting this on you??? You are paying her to listen. She can tell her kid " im sorry honey, but when im at work i need to pay attention to the people there. I'll check.in with you between clients

[kecanoe]

If you felt "safe enough in a sustained way" you probably would not be in therapy. And you said that her phone is always on in session, right? Not just once? I think I would tell her that in order for you to feel safe and connected, you need her phone to be off (silenced or in another room and definitely out of sight) for the duration of your session. If she needs to be that available to her kid, she probably needs to be a stay at home mom.

Somehow she seems to just not understand that it is not professional to be glancing at her phone when in a face to face meeting. I don't know how you could convince her of this. But if she won't ditch the phone, I would be inclined to ditch her.

And I agree that her email sounds patronizing, like you are the one with the problem not her. And the leaving early thing? I would be ok with t saying that they needed to leave on time due to another commitment, but not ok with them leaving early. Whichever thing was on their calendar first should take precedence and if the other thing was most important, she should have at least offered to reschedule. It should be totally up to you if you keep your regular time or make a switch.

Yikes. I think your t hit a nerve with me!

[musinglizzy]

I totally agree with all that is said above. I feel like I'm being oversensitive, but common sense tells me I'm not. Yes, she is paid for her time, and I guess I think that time should be mine (unless it's an emergency, like I said). I can tell you right now what she'll say if I "confront" her with this. She will remind me of how much time she provides me with OUTside of sessions through Emails. She has highly encouraged Emails, and questions me if I DON'T stay in touch with her. That's the first thing she would say. That she has given me so much time outside of session.

It is unfortunate that my support needs to be paid for, but that is the reality of my life at this moment. I don't expect anyone to be perfect. But I think it's very disrespectful to hear her phone alerts throughout my session...and no, this isn't the first time she has filed her nails. I've noticed she does it when I have a hard time talking.

She has insisted that I come in today, even though I canceled today on Tuesday. I suppose, if I prepare myself to be open and honest with her, and not scared of what she'll throw back in my face, I will go, to lay this to rest. But my fear is that going will leave me feeling worse.... but maybe it won't, if I go in with the mindset that I won't let that happen.

I, also, was not allowed to call my mom at work unless it was an emergency. Her daughter is almost 18 years old. Old enough to understand what her mother does for a living.

[Pennster]

She has terrible boundaries, so she is raising a child with terrible boundaries. Demanding that you stay in touch between sessions is another sign of her terrible boundaries.

If you do decide to go in today, I would focus very hard on why she does her nails in session. But I think her demanding that you go in today is yet another consequence of her terrible boundaries.

[JaneTennison1]

Why not just continue your cancellation? You don't have to do what she says.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

Why not just continue your cancellation? You don't have to do what she says.

Because I'm afraid this is gonna eat me alive through the blasted holiday weekend that I'm already not looking forward to. I know I'm not myself... I am a newly recovering addict who is starting to "feel" things for the first time in awhile. I'm a mess.

I know I have been a member of this forum for quite awhile now, but my addiction is the one thing I never spoke of on here.

[growlycat]

I really do not like this therapist. What you are asking for is totally reasonable but she is using your work as a cover for her bad behavior. I hope you can stand firm on your cancellation. I really wish a new t for you.

Of course relationships are imperfect but she is willfully disrespecting you then gas lighting you about it. Not cool.

I am also an addict in recovery. Do you have any other support, preferably with people who understand and have experience with addiction? It's a cliche but for me that has been instrumental. Therapy was either completely unhelpful in that domain for me or helpful with general obsessive tendencies, but not really regarding the staying sober and being vulnerable in early sobriety part. In fact, my first therapist made a relapse worse for me. That state, or being freshly sober, is not the time to aggressively and manipulatively probe into someone's issues and put personal expectations on them. If this T is triggering for you, I would steer clear as an absolute priority (although I do understand that this stressful situation might be even more triggering). Does she actually know about your addiction and the stage of recovery you are in currently? Just asking because I hid relapses from my therapists a few times...

[Merecat]

That's a nonsense, expecting her to give you the time and attention she's being paid for is not an intolerance, it's a perfectly reasonable request. She's chosen to work in a profession where she can't be available for chunks of time so she needs to make alternative care arrangements for her daughter. And it's her job to hold the therapeutic grave if the relationship - which she's consistently struggled to do. If you don't want to go back, don't. There's nothing to say you need to work this out with her and frankly, as an addict in recovery her crazy making behaviour will do you more harm than good.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I am also an addict in recovery. Do you have any other support, preferably with people who understand and have experience with addiction? It's a cliche but for me that has been instrumental. Therapy was either completely unhelpful in that domain for me or helpful with general obsessive tendencies, but not really regarding the staying sober and being vulnerable in early sobriety part. In fact, my first therapist made a relapse worse for me. That state, or being freshly sober, is not the time to aggressively and manipulatively probe into someone's issues and put personal expectations on them. If this T is triggering for you, I would steer clear as an absolute priority (although I do understand that this stressful situation might be even more triggering). Does she actually know about your addiction and the stage of recovery you are in currently? Just asking because I hid relapses from my therapists a few times...

I have two therapists, and they know the extent of my addiction. Honestly, it was a rupture with T1 that caused the major addiction almost two years ago. I couldn't cope. I found T2, who is actually an addiction therapist, and she has saved my life. She got me into treatment, and I am now clean. I DO continue to see both therapists, but my goal was always to get away from T1, by having T2. I am still working on that. T2 is a keeper, but there is still a deep seeded attachment to T1 that keeps me going back. The only thing T1 offers me that T2 doesn't is check ups by Email (or text) here and there, or out of session contact by Email. I do not use the phone, ever. I have never called a therapist for anything more than canceling a session. I appreciate being able to check in with T1 if I need to once or twice between sessions, because I am feeling so lonely in my life that it helps to know someone is "there." That is one big thing that I would miss by quitting with T1, someday I won't need it, and I'll be much better off when that comes, but for now, I really do. T2 is a perfect match for me in every other way, with T1, it's just the history and attachment that keeps me there. But I also realize that I think this therapeutic relationship is holding me back. We are both stubborn, yet I apologize so readily. She will only apologize for how I feel. "I'm sorry you feel that way." She won't apologize for anything I feel she has done. We have a long history of rupture/semi-repair, and one thing I'm thinking lately is that it is making me feel more guarded with T2. That she's gonna hurt me, or she's gonna dump me, or something. I overreact... I'm too sensitive. I know T2 will not do that, but if I didn't have these fears, I'm sure I wouldn't be in therapy....so I have some work to do, and some trust to give.

I appreciate all of this input, because it does feel to me like T1 is constantly blaming me for being the way I am. Believe me, if I could wave a magic wand and change the way I feel, I would. It's no fun being in my own head, that's for sure...

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by Merecat

That's a nonsense, expecting her to give you the time and attention she's being paid for is not an intolerance, it's a perfectly reasonable request. She's chosen to work in a profession where she can't be available for chunks of time so she needs to make alternative care arrangements for her daughter. And it's her job to hold the therapeutic grave if the relationship - which she's consistently struggled to do. If you don't want to go back, don't. There's nothing to say you need to work this out with her and frankly, as an addict in recovery her crazy making behaviour will do you more harm than good.

Thanks for this....and also just to say, her daughter is almost 18 years old. Not a child, really.

[unaluna]

I get the feeling that both of you are in it to win it. My thought at the end of that last session as you described it was, "wth? Whats wrong with you two?" Now, i give a t leeway in that they may be reflecting my petty behavior back to me - that they are not behaving pettily out of their own initiative. They are a mirror, and if im seeing a butt, that butt is probably mine.

Then the only way to figure out who is really being a butt is to call them on it. Talk to them directly. Because what matters is not so much what happens in the t room, but what happens the next time you have to confront a butt IRL. You want to be able to CHOOSE how you handle it, not be afraid to confront some butt and thereby be controlled by it. You may still choose to walk away IRL, but hey as long as you know why.

[Merecat]

I know you have an attachment to her, but it's doing you harm. Honestly, if for some reason she couldn't work any more you'd grieve the loss of the relationship but you'd survive. I'm not saying it's easy at all but you can leave if you want to. If you choose not to, that's ok but know why that is and own that decision. You clearly get something from being in it with her, maybe figuring that out would help. It's also possible you're/she is recreating an old dynamic in the relationship that feels familiar to you - sometimes abusive relationships can feel safe because they're familiar and deep down we think we deserve to be badly treated. I'm not saying that's the case for you, just that I've been there and it's hellish.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

One of the challenges in functional relationships (like ours) is that no one is perfect, and we have to be able to tolerate minor departures from the ideal without letting our basic trust in the relationship be shaken. That is your job with me. Can you invest in the "good enoughness" of our bond to be able to go with it when I have to cut a session short or be available to my child during your session. It isn't about a life-long test of loyalty, it is about feeling safe enough in a sustained way to be able to be flexible. You are not there yet, but you will be.

Her e-mail bothers me for several reasons. The main one is the lack of any apology or admittance of wrongdoing--it's like she's trying to use the "no one is perfect" thing to take away any sort of responsibility for her actions. And then, even worse, she acts like it's all on you for there being an issue. Like you're too weak or too sensitive. The line about "be available to my child during your session" just has a very passive-aggressive feel to it, too (I heard it in my mother-in-law's voice). I mean, are you also expected to "go with it" if she has a sudden urge to file her nails or check the weather?

I agree with a few other posters that it's also a bit manipulative of her to try to get you to come in today, even though you canceled Tuesday. It's like you took control then by canceling, and now she's trying to get it back. I'd only go in if you really want to--like if you're willing to take the risk of getting more upset rather than having things resolved before the holidays. And I'd be prepared to walk out if she's just making you more upset.

Save

[atisketatasket]

Wait a sec. You got addicted to something because of her treatment of you over hugs and saying I love you? Wow, what a terrible therapist.

I wouldn't go. I'd tell her I had a manicure appointment, "because that's where most people get their nails done, plus my manicurist actually listens to me talk whie she does her job."

There are other therapists out there who aren't walking emblems of toxicity and who would be available outside of session. Could you try finding one?

[JaneTennison1]

She gets you to email, she gets you to come in, she gaslights you by blaming things on you or the therapy process when actually she is just behaving badly. This woman is taking advantage of your attachment and your vulnerability. It must be difficult to make the break from her, but you really owe it to yourself. You quit the addiction that threatened you, you can quit her too. You have the strength.

[precaryous]

"She will remind me of how much time she provides me with OUTside of sessions through Emails. She has highly encouraged Emails, and questions me if I DON'T stay in touch with her. That's the first thing she would say. That she has given me so much time outside of session. "

This is HER choice, not your fault at all. She could chose to limit these types of contacts the same as she can choose to put her phone on silent when she has a session with you...

[here today]

You have us here. Post away! Lots, if you need to. I know you said that T2 doesn't allow emails but it seems to me, too, that T1 is an addiction. If you don't want to talk to T2 about how you can break this, what do you yourself know about addiction and how to break it? And maybe there are some other forums, too, that you could post in while you're going "without"?

[ruh roh]

If having between session support is important to your stability, can you do online therapy?

When you started therapy with this person, you were in much better shape. People who go into therapy to work through an impending divorce don't end up with an addiction created by therapy as well as lost work, and worsening depression, self-esteem and coping abilities.