[DechanDawa]

I have just started to look for a counselor or therapist because I have severe depression and suicidal ideation. I have to admit I have a bad attitude about therapy.

I went to one free session which was Gestalt and didn't like it. I am supposed to go to another free session with someone else this week but my feeling is "What's the point?"

I will be honest and say that I don't think most therapists whose profiles I have looked at could work with someone with suicidal ideation. They are mostly interested in relationship issues, and whatever else I don't know but it seems like lightweight stuff.

Probably I can't afford the kind of therapist I need. I don't know. I am ready to give up.

I have a very bad attitude about therapy. I have done it in the past and usually quit after about six months...or let it drag on a year and then quit.

I wish there was something else I could think of that would help me but not be therapy.

I know, it's tough to find a quality therapist.

You could try looking for a therapist who says they specialize in trauma.

Psychoanalysts are all qualified to handle sui. Mine haven't ever freaked out about it either. That type of therapy doesn't appeal to everyone, but some of us swear by it. Have you ever tried an analyst?

I also don't think what they charge is related to how good they are, though taking insurance might be more common with below average therapists since if you are not a quality therapist, you might have to take insurance to get/keep clients.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Skies

I know, it's tough to find a quality therapist.

You could try looking for a therapist who says they specialize in trauma.

Psychoanalysts are all qualified to handle sui. Mine haven't ever freaked out about it either. That type of therapy doesn't appeal to everyone, but some of us swear by it. Have you ever tried an analyst?

I also don't think what they charge is related to how good they are, though taking insurance might be more common with below average therapists since if you are not a quality therapist, you might have to take insurance to get/keep clients.

Thanks. My insurance deductible is too high to pay for any kind of mental health care. I did have a session with someone this weekend who specialized in trauma. He did Gestalt and I didn't like it. However, I emailed him regarding my impressions and maybe I will go back to him... I don't know. He isn't really legitimately qualified to do Gestalt therapy. He has some some experience but not certification.

Truly I am not sure the difference between a counselor and a psychoanalyst but I am assume a psychoanalyst is a psychiatrist??? If so I can't afford that.

I think I understand what you are saying. I went to a psychiatrist in the past and sadly must confess I quit after a year. I may be....therapy resistant? Is there such a thing??? If so maybe I am it.

Too bad. However, I am still not content to just live with suicidal ideation. Sigh. The search continues.

A psychoanalyst is a therapist with additional certifications-advanced training and years of therapy/working through their transference and issues.

They do psychodynamic/analytic therapy. There is a lot of focus on the relationship*, but it's to get at the root causes of depression/anxiety and not living life to your potential. This one page sums it up pretty well: Psychoanalytic Theory & Approaches | APsaA

If you're more action oriented or hands on, you might hate it though. It takes long, but many people get relief right at the beginning due to developing an idealizing transference aka falling in love with your therapist. It can seem like an awakening of sorts. It depends on your issues, but that's one of the most common beginning stages for people who had a lot of unmet childhood needs. The therapist might become the most important person in your life; some get obsessed. This fades over time. Maybe this freaks you out, but read the link.

Some psychiatrist, typically older ones, were trained as analysts to do psychodynamic therapy. That's how most were trained long ago. Do you know if the psychiatrist you saw was an analyst? I saw a psychiatrist for therapy prior to this one, and it was a really good experience. Of course, different therapists, different experiences.

I don't know much about Gestalt but saw your post and was curious. Not for me either.

Sorry it's so hard. Keep trying.


*the relationship is a vehicle for change

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Skies

A psychoanalyst is a therapist with additional certifications-advanced training and years of therapy/working through their transference and issues.

They do psychodynamic/analytic therapy. There is a lot of focus on the relationship*, but it's to get at the root causes of depression/anxiety and not living life to your potential. This one page sums it up pretty well: Psychoanalytic Theory & Approaches | APsaA

If you're more action oriented or hands on, you might hate it though. It takes long, but many people get relief right at the beginning due to developing an idealizing transference aka falling in love with your therapist. It can seem like an awakening of sorts. It depends on your issues, but that's one of the most common beginning stages for people who had a lot of unmet childhood needs. The therapist might become the most important person in your life; some get obsessed. This fades over time. Maybe this freaks you out, but read the link.

Some psychiatrist, typically older ones, were trained as analysts to do psychodynamic therapy. That's how most were trained long ago. Do you know if the psychiatrist you saw was an analyst? I saw a psychiatrist for therapy prior to this one, and it was a really good experience. Of course, different therapists, different experiences.

I don't know much about Gestalt but saw your post and was curious. Not for me either.

Sorry it's so hard. Keep trying.


*the relationship is a vehicle for change

Thank you for this link. It was really helpful. I don't think the psychiatrist I saw was doing the kind of work you describe and what was outlined in the link you provided.

I can also see for this work to take place there has to be a great deal of trust. Something I didn't like about the free session I had with the Gestalt person is he went very deep and got very personal right away...and I was overwhelmed. I mean this was a total stranger I had met for the first time. I felt really uncomfortable talking about really vulnerable stuff, and crying, and all the rest.

The problem is because I have severe depression and suicidal ideation I feel my situation is pretty serious and I need expert help. But I don't think I am going to get it.
I would like, perhaps, to engage in the kind of journey you describe but I think it would be quite costly.

Nowadays everything is more geared towards coping skills.

However, one thing your comment seemed to highlight for me is that I am definitely resistant...and according to your link that might mean I am sitting on a huge emotional volcano. So I am going to think about this and perhaps explore what I can do to start attending to it...even if it is writing about emotions in my journal.

Your reflections were extremely helpful. I am deeply appreciative you took the time...

Yes, the resistance part is touch. Defense crumble. You could mention your concern, and perhaps they will be gentle.

Costs range. They don't usually change much more than regular therapists despite the extra training, though some do charge 250+, depending on the area.

My therapist gives me a significant discount, but we really need to work more than once a week (we end up doing 5-6 a month lately but he thinks we need to meet at least twice a week). I got by once a week with the psychiatrist analyst before him, but he gave me longer sessions. And he took insurance. It's difficult to go less because of the intensity of the feelings that come up. But therapists can lighten up if they are flexible.

If you get one in training, they charge a lot less and can see you more often with lower total cost. Just call the a psychoanalytic institution nearby and ask for an assessment and referral. You can tell them your price range, issues, and your preferences. They can hook you up. And, it's like having 2 therapists in a way as someone will be heavily supervising them.

Trainee analysts are mostly therapists of other orientations who have been in practice for a number of years before they realized this therapy is the way to go. Some are psychiatrists, too.

Know that I really struggle with paying for therapy too. I really can't afford it. I'm right there with you.

I encourage you to try it, if you call an institute, you could get a free assessment and referral (someone/several who they think you are a match with). Hate to see another potential therapy defector out there. Don't give up yet.

[DechanDawa]

I will think about this but truly I think what you are suggesting isn't going to be a reality for me. Personally I wouldn't really want to go to a trainee. Would I go to a trainee surgeon if I needed an operation? I think not. However, I am interested in the idea of finding other ways to maybe address this and for me it might be writing and journaling. I am also thinking that somatic work might be anoter way.

I definitely feel like emotional issues are weighing me down and preventing freedom in my life, and I also feel like I am repressing them.

In our area we also have an Institute for Applied Existential Philosophy which I might investigate.

I am not really interested in transference. I have experienced this before and nothing positive came of it. Also, I have somewhat of a dependent personality type and now they are saying that for someone with my personality that transference may not actually be that helpful.

At this point...total confusion. I need a vacation from life.

I hear you. I wouldn't normally go to a trainee one either, but some of the analytic candidates have already been therapists for 10+ years and they would be under supervision by one who is very experienced.

If you are not interested in working with transference, than I guess that scratches this idea off the list!

Somatic work is something I've been wanting to try, but I only find massage therapists. I wonder how you find somatic therapists? Or do they do massage too?

Vacation therapy-now that's the one!

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Skies

I hear you. I wouldn't normally go to a trainee one either, but some of the analytic candidates have already been therapists for 10+ years and they would be under supervision by one who is very experienced.

If you are not interested in working with transference, than I guess that scratches this idea off the list!

Somatic work is something I've been wanting to try, but I only find massage therapists. I wonder how you find somatic therapists? Or do they do massage too?

Vacation therapy-now that's the one!

Well, Gestalt work actually includes somatic work. In fact, Gestalt has some similarities with the kind of situation you describe. Maybe not so much transference, but definitely investigating patterns rooted in childhood, family of origin, and lifelong relational patterns.

I think what you are describing requires commitment, trust, and sadly, money.

But I am really interested in the idea of maybe trying to figure out ways to satisfy some of these unmet needs in other ways.

For instance, self parenting??? Granting one permission to feel taboo emotions? Heck, I don't know. I was a member of a spiritual community for 20 years and I honestly think it may have helped me, but the community changed and I had to move on.

The problem with therapy, spiritual communities, and even intimate relationships is that they are subject to change and even dissolution...so to be dependent on them can be dangerous. Many people on this site talk about losing their therapists for one reason or another and they become traumatized, and frankly I don't think that is healthy.

I was joking about the vacation. But partly. I have been intensely on this problem of finding a therapist for a few weeks and it is wearing me down so I think I will go for a few swims at the Recreation Center this week.

[MBM17]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I have just started to look for a counselor or therapist because I have severe depression and suicidal ideation. I have to admit I have a bad attitude about therapy.

You said you've had previous experience with short term therapy, right? Your "bad attitude" comes from those experiences? Did you have therapists who were a bad fit?

I went to one free session which was Gestalt and didn't like it. I am supposed to go to another free session with someone else this week but my feeling is "What's the point?"

Couldn't this "What's the point?" feeling be coming from your depression rather than from reality? That perhaps you are perceiving things incorrectly? When I'm depressed, the past becomes distorted and my feelings change. I have thought while depressed that my childhood was neglective, my parents weren't supportive, they had no emotions, that kind of thing. While there is some truth in that, when I finally came up out of my depression, I was shocked to see how perfect my parents were for me, how they supported me in ways that no other parents would, etc. Perhaps your bad attitude or bad feelings about therapy have been exaggerated. It would be hard to see from within depression even if it were true, but maybe you could utilize a reasonable amount of doubt to motivate yourself to keep pursuing therapy, if that is indeed what you want to do.

I will be honest and say that I don't think most therapists whose profiles I have looked at could work with someone with suicidal ideation. They are mostly interested in relationship issues, and whatever else I don't know but it seems like lightweight stuff.

Some therapists are indeed "weak sauce," as I call them. Their strong suit is helping people with situational struggles. In my opinion, David Burns is one of those. He has written a famous CBT book and says in the intro basically that he thinks CBT can cure anything, any time, any amount of depression and anxiety, and so forth. Ridiculous. There is a level of deep depression that you CANNOT think your way out of. I theorize that because he is famous he gets lots of rich wives who are having a hard time because their pet dog died. Of course CBT can help with situation mild depression.

I'm ranting here and lots of people won't agree with me, but my point is that that's some therapists' strong suits.

A profile online will not show that.

All therapists are trained in treatment for suicidal thoughts and severe depression, so very few put it on any kind of profile. It's kind of assumed. Some will be better than others, of course, but a profile won't show that anyway.

I have a very bad attitude about therapy. I have done it in the past and usually quit after about six months...or let it drag on a year and then quit.

I wish there was something else I could think of that would help me but not be therapy.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by MBM17

You said you've had previous experience with short term therapy, right? Your "bad attitude" comes from those experiences? Did you have therapists who were a bad fit?


Couldn't this "What's the point?" feeling be coming from your depression rather than from reality? That perhaps you are perceiving things incorrectly? When I'm depressed, the past becomes distorted and my feelings change. I have thought while depressed that my childhood was neglective, my parents weren't supportive, they had no emotions, that kind of thing. While there is some truth in that, when I finally came up out of my depression, I was shocked to see how perfect my parents were for me, how they supported me in ways that no other parents would, etc. Perhaps your bad attitude or bad feelings about therapy have been exaggerated. It would be hard to see from within depression even if it were true, but maybe you could utilize a reasonable amount of doubt to motivate yourself to keep pursuing therapy, if that is indeed what you want to do.


Some therapists are indeed "weak sauce," as I call them. Their strong suit is helping people with situational struggles. In my opinion, David Burns is one of those. He has written a famous CBT book and says in the intro basically that he thinks CBT can cure anything, any time, any amount of depression and anxiety, and so forth. Ridiculous. There is a level of deep depression that you CANNOT think your way out of. I theorize that because he is famous he gets lots of rich wives who are having a hard time because their pet dog died. Of course CBT can help with situation mild depression.

I'm ranting here and lots of people won't agree with me, but my point is that that's some therapists' strong suits.

A profile online will not show that.

All therapists are trained in treatment for suicidal thoughts and severe depression, so very few put it on any kind of profile. It's kind of assumed. Some will be better than others, of course, but a profile won't show that anyway.

Thank you. Everything you said rang with wisdom. I can't really trust anything because the depression does color everything. I get irritated very easily. I am demanding. I guess because I am trying really hard to get out of this depression I think that the Universe should give me what I need to heal. Yes, I have had bad experiences with therapists but then hasn't everyone? I guess I am upset about being depressed and not being able to take care of things myself. I do think that some therapists are, as you say, light sauce. I remember one therapist telling me how successful he was in treating someone with what seemed to me to be a rather silly phobia and I thought to myself "This guy is not going to help me," and sure enough in the course of therapy he made some pretty asinine suggestions. Mostly I am depressed and it colors everything. Thank you for your comments which really gave me a new perspective. I need to chill a bit in this process.

[here today]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

. . . I can't really trust anything because the depression does color everything. I get irritated very easily. I am demanding. I guess because I am trying really hard to get out of this depression I think that the Universe should give me what I need to heal. . .

I can identify with this and a lot of other things that you have written in this thread. I tried really, really hard to deal with my issues and get out of my depression, but the Universe never cared. Eventually, after my last therapy which may have been "successful", in a way -- but very painful and 6 years long -- I realized and could see that the T didn't really care, the Universe doesn't care -- my family of origin didn't care. Extraordinarily hard and painful. If no one cares, what's the point?

Reality-wise, because of all the trying really, really hard -- the relationships with my adult kids are OK, after 4 years when my daughter wasn't speaking to me. PC exists and people here care sometimes, even if it's only for a moment here and there. I have some support group friends. Not a lot but not nothing, either.

I hope you can find places where the Universe cares and provides for you, too.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by here today

I can identify with this and a lot of other things that you have written in this thread. I tried really, really hard to deal with my issues and get out of my depression, but the Universe never cared. Eventually, after my last therapy which may have been "successful", in a way -- but very painful and 6 years long -- I realized and could see that the T didn't really care, the Universe doesn't care -- my family of origin didn't care. Extraordinarily hard and painful. If no one cares, what's the point?

Reality-wise, because of all the trying really, really hard -- the relationships with my adult kids are OK, after 4 years when my daughter wasn't speaking to me. PC exists and people here care sometimes, even if it's only for a moment here and there. I have some support group friends. Not a lot but not nothing, either.

I hope you can find places where the Universe cares and provides for you, too.

Ah, this was really beautiful. Thank you so very, very much for this authentically cheerful message.