[SoConfused623]

Saw my T on Monday and talked about an upcoming class involving public speaking that I am terrified of. I am taking a class with about 100 people and the teacher said that he would randomly select 3 of us to do a 45 minute presentation in front of the class. So, very low chance but yet still a chance and I am terrified. I told her that I have to have an impacted wisdom tooth taken out and I chose to have it done the day of the upcoming class so that I could miss the class and have a legitimate excuse for missing it. T just laughed at the fact that i'd rather have an impacted wisdom tooth pulled out requiring IV Sedation and a lot of pain afterwards rather than go to the class and possibly have to present in front of the class.

I had wanted to talk about my lack of confidence and all of a sudden she asks me how I am feeling about our relationship and pulls out of me that I was upset about the fact that she doesn't say nice or encouraging things, which is a spillover from our last session. I should mention that I know that my T cares about me as she is 110% present at all times and shows a lot of empathy with her facial expressions. I just want her to verbalize that she supports me and validate me every once in a while and she won't because she says that she wants to understand where it's coming from and we end up getting into a big debate over this and all of a sudden my session is nearly over! There were only 10 minutes left so I brought up something else that I had wanted to talk about since it was about an event that evening so it was very time sensitive.

I am so pissed off that we spent so much time on something that she brought up. I was not even thinking about this at all even though it had been in the back of my mind. I feel like my session was wasted and I am so mad at her!

She has NEVER done that before and never follows up on anything because she says that she only wants to talk about what I want to talk about so she always waits for me to bring things up. I feel that this was a big screw up on her part! I am livid!

She mentioned that she felt that I had "come into session with my dukes up" and while what she brought up was in the back of my head, I did not want to address it last session as I had more pressing things to talk about.

She said that our biggest work will be our relationship with each other since in general I want to work on relationships in therapy. And I refuse to spend time and money talking to her about our relationship all of the time.

I had tried to switch therapists at the beginning of the year for a number of reasons, the biggest being that she is a blank slate T, but then found out that if I left this center that I couldn't see my p-doc as you can only see a p-doc if you are seeing a T at the center. Come to find out that my p-doc is leaving in 2 months when her baby arrives. T tells me that she did NOT know at the time that she was leaving. I believe her as p-doc said that she had just come to the decision.

Bottom line, I am so upset with T and am wondering if you feel that I have a right to be upset and if she screwed up. Also, what percent of therapy should be working on our relationship given the fact that my main goal of therapy is working on relationships in general?

BTW, I know that this could go in the "In Session Today" thread but it's so important to me that I wanted to make it a separate thread...

Thanks.

[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by SoConfused623

Saw my T on Monday and talked about an upcoming class involving public speaking that I am terrified of. I am taking a class with about 100 people and the teacher said that he would randomly select 3 of us to do a 45 minute presentation in front of the class. So, very low chance but yet still a chance and I am terrified. I told her that I have to have an impacted wisdom tooth taken out and I chose to have it done the day of the upcoming class so that I could miss the class and have a legitimate excuse for missing it. T just laughed at the fact that i'd rather have an impacted wisdom tooth pulled out requiring IV Sedation and a lot of pain afterwards rather than go to the class and possibly have to present in front of the class.

I had wanted to talk about my lack of confidence and all of a sudden she asks me how I am feeling about our relationship and pulls out of me that I was upset about the fact that she doesn't say nice or encouraging things, which is a spillover from our last session. We end up getting into a big debate over this and all of a sudden my session is nearly over and there were only 10 minutes left and I brought up something else that I had wanted to talk about since it was about an event that evening so it was very time sensitive.

I am so pissed off that we spent so much time on something that she brought up. I was not even thinking about this at all even though it had been in the back of my mind. I feel like my session was wasted and I am so mad at her!

She has NEVER done that before and never follows up on anything because she says that she only wants to talk about what I want to talk about so she always waits for me to bring things up. I feel that this was a big screw up on her part! I am livid!

She mentioned that she felt that I had "come into session with my dukes up" and while what she brought up was in the back of my head, I did not want to address it last session as I had more pressing things to talk about.

She said that our biggest work will be our relationship with each other since in general I want to work on relationships in therapy. And I refuse to spend time and money talking to her about our relationship all of the time.

I had tried to switch therapists at the beginning of the year for a number of reasons, the biggest being that she is a blank slate T, but then found out that if I left this center that I couldn't see my p-doc as you can only see a p-doc if you are seeing a T at the center. Come to find out that my p-doc is leaving in 2 months when her baby arrives. T tells me that she did NOT know at the time that she was leaving. I believe her as p-doc said that she had just come to the decision.

Bottom line, I am so upset with T and am wondering if you feel that I have a right to be upset and if she screwed up. Also, what percent of therapy should be working on our relationship given the fact that my main goal of therapy is working on relationships in general?

BTW, I know that this could go in the "In Session Today" thread but it's so important to me that I wanted to make it a separate thread...

Thanks.

Are you livid because she went in a direction other than what you wanted for that session, because she won't say nice or affirming things, or both? If it were me, I'd probably be mad about all those plus mad about the pdoc thing, even though it sounds like that wasn't really her fault. So yeah, livid makes sense to me.

If you seemed like you were still not done with talking about your relationship, her bringing it up makes a certain amount of sense. And if you didn't directly say that you didn't want to talk about it during that session then it doesn't seem particularly out of line. She may have figured that there was no way you were going to solve your fear of public speaking (I've read that the fear of public speaking is the most common fear-even beating the fear of death) during the session? Or maybe she didn't catch on that you wanted to talk about it because she was distracted by your seeming "dukes up"?

I think most if not all of us clients have had a session go way off the rails. It does happen, and it sucks.

As far as your question about how much you should talk about your relationship with t given that relationships are your main focus, it would seem to me to make sense that a lot of your time would be spent understanding the dynamics of that relationship. But I would want equal time spent on trying to understand my other relationships. After all, they are the important ones. Do you think your relationship with t is similar to other relationships? Do you want other relationships to be more like the one with t?

[Trippin2.0]

What stopped you from changing the topic to what you actually wanted to talk about?

[SoConfused623]

Originally Posted by kecanoe

Are you livid because she went in a direction other than what you wanted for that session, because she won't say nice or affirming things, or both? If it were me, I'd probably be mad about all those plus mad about the pdoc thing, even though it sounds like that wasn't really her fault. So yeah, livid makes sense to me.

If you seemed like you were still not done with talking about your relationship, her bringing it up makes a certain amount of sense. And if you didn't directly say that you didn't want to talk about it during that session then it doesn't seem particularly out of line. She may have figured that there was no way you were going to solve your fear of public speaking (I've read that the fear of public speaking is the most common fear-even beating the fear of death) during the session? Or maybe she didn't catch on that you wanted to talk about it because she was distracted by your seeming "dukes up"?

I think most if not all of us clients have had a session go way off the rails. It does happen, and it sucks.

As far as your question about how much you should talk about your relationship with t given that relationships are your main focus, it would seem to me to make sense that a lot of your time would be spent understanding the dynamics of that relationship. But I would want equal time spent on trying to understand my other relationships. After all, they are the important ones. Do you think your relationship with t is similar to other relationships? Do you want other relationships to be more like the one with t?

Thank you so much kecanoe, I always know that I can count on you for a very thoughtful response.

I'm angry about her hijacking my session, that she won't say nice or affirming things, that she is a blank slate and that she is very inflexible. She even said that she's been doing things like she does for a VERY LONG time and that it works for her and that's how it is.

I want my T to open up just a tiny bit. For instance, she just came back from a 3 week trip and I asked her what the best part was and she just said that it was all good, so she basically answered my question but didn't tell me anything. I have told her some hugely personal things and I just want to know who I am talking to. Just a tiny bit. I asked her what music she likes and she said, "All Music" and so I asked her what she listened to in her car and she said, "I'm not going to answer that." I know these are stupid little trivial things and I don't even care what the answers are, I just want her to tell me SOMETHING! I just want to know a little bit about who I am spilling my guts to.

One thing that T and I once talked briefly about was am I able to ask people that I'm in relationships with for things that I need and I said that I am able to do that and do it consistently. So in essence, I'm telling her that I need to know a little something about her in order to go any deeper with her and she won't meet my need. She tells me not to settle in my relationships, but this seems hypocritical to me!

I also said, that I need to hear validation and something nice from time to time and she states that since I can tell that she empathizes with me by how present she is and by her facial and body language that I should NOT need to hear it too. I disagree because I often hear things that people have said to me in my head and rely on some of these things when I'm in distress. So it would be really nice to hear T saying, "I support you" or "I know you can do this" or anything along those lines. Yes, I know she cares and supports me, I just want to hear it.

We went through all of this earlier this year when I told her that I found a new T. I then was informed by this T that I couldn't stay with my p-doc if I didn't have a T there. I told her that I needed her to compromise on some of these things and she said that she would tell me things but that she'd need to know why it was so important for me to know. I feel that I told her exactly why I wanted her to say nice things and she kept saying that she wouldn't until she understood it more. There is NOTHING else that I can say on this subject as I have never been in a relationship where the person purposely didn't say nice things or wouldn't tell me about themselves.

Good point about her maybe thinking the conversation was over because I was very adamant that I was NOT going to this class with the chance that I'd have to do a 45 minute presentation in front of the class. She probably knew that she wouldn't change my mind on that. But, there were other aspects about my confidence in general that I wanted to talk about.

And to the other poster, yes, I could have changed the subject back, but she really sucked me into it and I kept thinking that she'd say that we would talk about it some other time, but she just kept going with it. She has NEVER done this before and I feel like her "Dukes were up" not mine!

[Moment]

I know how it can be disorienting to go into session thinking you know what you'll talk about and ending up talking about other stuff.

Therapists aren't mind readers, though, and they won't know if there's something important you need to share unless you say so. I don't think it's "hijacking," exactly. It sounds like your therapist thought there was something important and unresolved from the previous session.

You want to know things about your therapist--like what she listens to in terms of music, etc. But when she brings up something she thinks is important to talk about--which is really more revealing about her, in some ways--you get so angry at her. "Livid," in your words.

If you have issues with relationships (as do we all, probably), really exploring your relationship with your therapist is likely to be pretty productive. I've certainly found that to be the case in my own therapy. For example, even if she *did* make a mistake, it doesn't seem like such a huge one, so why so much anger?

[CantExplain]

She sounds a lot like Madame T.

She said, "I want what I'm already giving you to be enough."
It wasn't and that didn't change.

[kecanoe]

Honestly, I would not stay with a t who said "this is how I do things and it is how I am going to continue to do things". I really don't see the point in her position that you "should" be able to get the affirmation from non-verbal cues. It's not like you are asking her to text you at midnight-simply asking for verbal reassurance during a session, right?

Your decision to leave before you knew about the pdoc thing was pretty carefully thought through. You've been back (thinking you had to in order to keep pdoc, and because t said she'd change, yes?), t isn't changing and pdoc is leaving. Perhaps it is time to go back to your plan of leaving.

[thesnowqueen]

It doesn't seem like a 'hijacking' to me either. She picked up that you were unhappy with something from before and, without realising your need to address something else, started to explore that. However, it doesn't seem like her style is well suited to you. You need verbal affirmation and she seems (frankly) incapable of giving it. It also sounds like you end up in circular squabbles which is very different from therapeutic engagement. I know that different styles of therapy involve different degrees of self disclosure but my own suspicion is that those Ts who refuse to divulge anything, or who make you have to justify any tiny scrap of information, are defensive, insecure or on a power trip. (But that might just indicate my own irritation with it!)

[Dawntreader]

Therapists LOVE to make therapy about the 'relationship'. If you go in there and talk about what you want to, and deal with your issues and move on, there's not much money in it for them.

If you come back week after week to talk about the world's most expensive and utterly unsatisfying paid 'relationship', then they can turn you into someone who will not only never leave therapy, but someone who will roll over and thank them for their 'insight' as they steamroll you into a subordinate position which will make you an eternal juvenile. (Eventually they terminate you for being too needy, which they will also convince you is your 'stuff' even though they led you down the garden path of hyper dependence.)

Trust your instincts. You don't want to become one of these people who *loves* their therapist and is obsessed with the relationship. Those clients are basically like the people stuck in the Matrix pods, their life force going toward sustaining the therapist's bank account instead of making their own lives worth living.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Dawntreader

You don't want to become one of these people who *loves* their therapist and is obsessed with the relationship. Those clients are basically like the people stuck in the Matrix pods, their life force going toward sustaining the therapist's bank account instead of making their own lives worth living.

Why are you here, repeatedly posting about how terrible all therapists are, when you could be out there making your own life worth living instead? Seems to me you're just as broken as the rest of us.

I simply tell the therapist politely that I want to talk about something else when they insist on a topic or go on about something I do not want to spend that much time on. I did this many times with my last T, who is very interactive/talkative and always has a lot to say. Mostly interesting things but sometimes not the direction I wanted to go into. I interrupted him countless times. He never seemed to mind much and I did not feel he was ever trying to hijack, more just had many thoughts like myself. I did alway try to answer his questions though about anything.

[SoConfused623]

Thanks everyone! I'm giving all of this a lot of thought. My next appt is on Friday and I'm planning to ask her in her opinion what has changed since we almost split. She had indicated that she would try harder to make things,work and I want to see if maybe I'm missing something.

Also, she had promised not to be so much of a blank slate and she has gotten a lot better about not completely shutting me down, but doesn't really answer my questions. For instance, I was asking her what the best part of her 3 week vacation was and she said "everything, it was all good" so she's just being more pleasant.

I think my username is just perfect for me!

[kecanoe]

I think that is a great idea-maybe she's changing things that she thinks you want but missing the boat.

[feileacan]

While I think that wanting to know more about one's therapist is a very normal wish I think that answering questions about therapist personal likes or dislikes should have no place in therapy. You are paying for your therapy to find out something about what's troubling you and your therapist is helping you to do that. For that purpose, the therapist personal thoughts and likes are completely irrelevant and I truly hope that your therapist will be able hold this stance while finding a way to help you find out what is it that you really want by demanding from her such information. Hopefully she is then also able to provide you what you really want/need at least partially, which, I believe it has something to do with feeling emotionally close to another person. For some reason you right now want it in the form of words about what your T thinks about certain things. But those words are really not the point, are they?

[SoConfused623]

Originally Posted by feileacan

While I think that wanting to know more about one's therapist is a very normal wish I think that answering questions about therapist personal likes or dislikes should have no place in therapy. You are paying for your therapy to find out something about what's troubling you and your therapist is helping you to do that. For that purpose, the therapist personal thoughts and likes are completely irrelevant and I truly hope that your therapist will be able hold this stance while finding a way to help you find out what is it that you really want by demanding from her such information. Hopefully she is then also able to provide you what you really want/need at least partially, which, I believe it has something to do with feeling emotionally close to another person. For some reason you right now want it in the form of words about what your T thinks about certain things. But those words are really not the point, are they?

She always says how our connection is very important and I will feel much closer to her if she'll share a few simple things. I would never ask her about who she voted for or anything like that! This is important to me and not insignificant. I know that there are other posters on here who would agree with me. But I appreciate your thoughts, thank you.