[awkwardlyyours]

I haven't written anything very trigger-y but my family of origin (FOO) experience isn't altogether pleasant and so, perhaps be careful in reading it.

Also, I know that not everyone works on FOO stuff in therapy and so, there's that too.

I believe this is incredibly common and that there's no one way that folks figure it out but I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts / experiences to share?

I'm basically in a position now where therapy is bringing up -- at a rather rapid pace (which is exciting but also frightening) -- my 'true' desires, so to speak, on dealing with my family of origin i.e., to almost entirely chop off all contact with them. But, I can't figure out how much of this is something I'll regret later vs. not and / or it's something I feel not-very-awful about because of current T's support vs. I'd feel the same even sans therapy.

Basically, for quite a while when I was growing up, I coped with crap by telling myself (and writing copiously and then going to great lengths to hide it) that the family consisted of complete strangers -- I'd refer to them in my mind (and in writing) by their formal names (Mr. and Mrs. So-and-So etc) -- and that it was just a matter of time before this little bizarre arrangement that I seemed to somehow have gotten myself stuck in (of being 'parented' by a couple of crazy strangers) will end.

So, I'd tell myself that as soon as I can leave (turn 18), I shall just get out and all of it will just be a somewhat unpleasant but totally distant memory that I can put away and go on with my life and never look back -- maybe through a great distance, fork over some cash for the food, clothing, shelter and education that they spent on and call it a day and cut off all contact.

I know this sounds weird but it was immensely comforting to me and kept me (somewhat!) sane and got me through a lot of stuff. At some point in my teens though, I could no longer hold on to this rather comforting thought and instead ended up in a weird mindf-ck (as current T put it) dynamic that has had me really emotionally stuck with the FOO. I'm working in therapy on figuring out what happened then and why etc.

But, fast forward to now -- recent events at FOO have resulted in my reducing contact with them. Unexpectedly, I am realizing that with the reduced contact with FOO, my usual emotional numbness (I can feel very little) is crumbling and I'm getting flooded with not just emotions but also memories that come with emotional content (whereas earlier, I could only recite the 'facts' on what had happened earlier without being able to feel anything related to it). And, even just the thought of going back to more frequent contact with FOO brings up intense feelings of wanting to off myself.

So, with all this, current T has been -- understandably -- encouraging that I should do the 'healthy' thing and do what's life-affirming for me blah blah and if that means reducing contact even further or cutting off contact with them, then that's what I need to do etc. She's not the first to tell me this -- even former T would get frustrated at my dealings with FOO.

All of that is great except I'm not sure it's all as simple as therapists tend to make it out to be? Or, maybe I'm reading what they're saying as simplistic and not giving them enough credit for it.

I'm terrified for one that I'll end up in some (different from the usual attachment struggles) incredibly weird, intense emotionally dependent dynamic with current T when I really start to cut off FOO -- so, I'm considering cutting down my sessions from twice a week to once a week etc.

So I guess I'm wondering then, for those who changed their relationship to FOO, did you have to / need to come to some sort of a Zen calm type place before doing it (I feel like I do but I'm also afraid that I'll never reach it)? Did you feel like you needed a ton of trust in your T before doing it (I feel like I'll never trust a T or anyone enough for it)? Were you worried about getting terribly emotionally dependent on your T while doing it? Did you and your T agree on what needed to be done and when? Etc. Or, basically any thoughts at all?

[Elio]

My T talks about trying to think of this as relationship dosage... how much dosage is enough to maintain whatever connection/relationship I want to have with the person and still keep myself healthy. She uses this analogy with all relationships not just FOO. So from here we talk about what type of connection/relationship I want to have... why I want it, how long I can stand interactions with the person... ect. I think it is her way of getting me to understand that it is ok if I put boundaries on relationships (something I am not good with).

An example is my sister, I can spend no more than 2 days with her before I want to punch her. So T says, something like a 2 day dosage, then really its more like a day to a day in a half because if I'm to wanting to punch her, it's no longer a healthy interaction.

When I was in my late 20's I thought of and had been preparing myself to cut all ties to my FOO through a natural and slow unraveling... moving across country for a job.. and such, very elaborate fantasy to say the least. I wanted to do that because I was thinking about doing full FTM transition and didn't want to deal with it and them. 20 yrs later... I'm still fighting that same internal struggle of my gender and my relationship with my FOO - this time I have someone helping me sort it out and figuring out.

Yeah, I can relate to more emotionalism when discussing events as things have ebbed and flowed in therapy. I don't know your family history, I don't know what struggles you have there, only you know what keeps you connecting and why you want to sever.. and yeah, you might find that you have or need that more intense emotionally dependent dynamic with T for awhile...while you are building your FOC (family of choice). I strongly believe in the power of FOC. Blood is not always thicker than water... because who we love, why we love has no blood.

[unaluna]

I found out i transferred my need for approval from my family to my t. Thats a break i should have made as a teenager? But i finally developed a sense of agency, which is something the parents actively campaigned against. Taking that stand against my t was pretty scary. Still, i wouldnt try to do it preemptively for its own sake. Its safer to lean on a known t than an unknown savior relationship.

And - some people you may still be able to relate to, some not. You will find out a few years after you make the break, who can adjust.

[atisketatasket]

I didn't go to therapy to discuss FOO, though therapists loooove to talk about my mother. DBC even recommended reducing visits home (I ignored this since DBC so clearly had her own mother issues).

Future ex did cut off his parents and it did wonders for him - which considering how nasty he still was is pretty mind boggling.

Anyway, you know my position on your family contact. I wouldn't think you would get dependent on current t if there are other supportive people in your life. However...you maybe need to watch out that those relationships, friendly or romantic, don't mimic your relationship with your parents, in the sense of being abusive? For which current t might be useful.

[satsuma]

Yes, after starting therapy I did reduce contact with my FOO. It wasn't planned like that from the outset, but basically in therapy I started to learn healthy boundaries and started to acquire some self esteem, and this led to putting my foot down more often with my family. It all came to a head one summe when I visited them, and they told me I had to either agree with all their criticisms of me and apologise for being a bad person (this was something that happened often and when I was younger I always believed them and constantly apologised), or else I was not welcome in their home any more. So I chose to leave.
It was a healthy choice for me, and I then had no contact for a year, which was very restful, but since then I have chosen to have limited contact (a couple of visits per year, and some phone contact). This was the right decision for me to take care of myself and not allow myself to be treated badly, but also to show care towards family members and be nice to them as far as I reasonably can.

I would say there is no one right or wrong solution in these situations, but there IS the importance of healthy boundaries and self care, so each person needs to work out how to take care of themselves and not allow others to treat them badly. Hopefully that is what our Ts can help us to figure out. I think it is often a gradual process that evolves with therapy and with me, the fact of me becoming more healthy and having self esteem precipitated the reaction of the FOO. For me, announcing that I was cutting off all contact would have been too final, and I actually didn't think it was the right thing to do, so I would have tortured myself with guilt if I had done it. But I have to admit that when they cut off contact and threw me out, it was very restful!

I also want to add that T encouraged me very strongly that it was good to stand up for myself and not ok for me to be treated in certain ways, but did not try to direct me about exactly how to conduct relationships with my FOO, and I think that is very important. T did once let slip that he thought it would be best for me to have no more contact with them, but once he understood that I did not want to cut off contact altogether, he has been very supportive of my goal of staying in contact whilst taking care of myself and having healthy boundaries.

[ruh roh]

My therapist also urged me to cut off contact, and she seemed frustrated at times that I didn't. It was clear that I was being triggered and having public meltdowns and run-ins with people due to emotional volatility, but it took events outside my control to do the work for me (loss of the surviving parent who was needing daily care).

I had already severed connections with a couple of siblings, but I have not been able to fully extricate them from my life because those type of people have their ways of agitating second and third hand. They surface through an intermediary who reports on their creepy ways of trying to get more and More and MORE. Even when I say "I don't want to hear about them or what they are doing," I still get told by the intermediary who peppers everything with lots of innuendo because one of the sibs is a perv who married a perv. I would LOVE to sever connections with them (intermediary) but I would have to move far away to do that, and my work keeps me here, so all I can do is not respond and hope that slows down the contact.

Anyway, to your point: I didn't find myself becoming more dependent on my therapist as a result--at least, not any more than I had been. I figure it's like being in a burning building. Do you jump and risk landing hard (dependency on therapist or whatever emotional fallout comes of the jump) or stay and get burned alive by family? The latter is guaranteed misery. The former is a gamble, but one I think is worth the risk.

[feileacan]

I have basically cut off the contact with my FOO over the four years I've been in therapy although my T has never suggested that to me. I just felt myself that I've had enough of this pseudo-relationship that has been between me and my parents since the early childhood, which does not give anything to me. I decided that I'm not responsible for their needs and if these relationships don't give me anything good then I just don't need them anymore at all. I have not regretted so far.

I personally have never tied this issue with the dependence on my T. I am very dependent on my T in some sense (and in some other sense I'm totally not) and it has been my conscious choice to let myself be dependent and not fight against it (although I guess I still fight to some extent). I have been fiercely independent all my life since very early age, I have never relied emotionally on anyone and so I figure that I need this experience of being dependent on someone who I can trust in order to have mutually dependent relationships also elsewhere in my life.

[Out There]

I lost all my FOO over the course of my therapy thus far - my Mum died and my relationship with my Brother ended soon after. Interestingly my T is the same age as my Brother. I'm still working on the memories coming up with emotions rather than the rational thing and that's difficult. This can all be so tangled and complex but I hope you can find what's best for you. I wonder still why they couldn't just be normal.

[anais_anais]

I cut off contact at the urging of both Ts. I can't say I reached any sort of 'zen'-ness about it beforehand, it was all extremely scary and involved about six months of intensive planning in my case. But I felt that I couldn't explore my trauma safely while still in relationship with the family, once the memories started coming back (I had repressed most of what happened). Every time my father called, for instance, I vomitted. So... it's been hard, lonely in many ways especially at holidays, but I got to the point where I just couldn't continue anymore, not just in terms of therapy, but also in terms of quality of life.

[anais_anais]

As a result, the truth is I have become very dependent on my Ts. But they support me through it. I think they're thrilled that I've attached to them, actually, and it doesn't feel to me as though the dependency is such a crutch-- more that I am learning for the first time that I can rely on people emotionally, and when I'm strong enough, I'll have fulfilling relationships outside of therapy, too, and at that point I suppose I will have graduated, if you will.

I can't see my T outright telling me to stop communicating with my FOO, though it's certainly his favorite thing to get me to talk about in session. I have had minimal contact with my bio mom for years due to the toxicity of our relationship, though I tried to bring her back into my life about a year ago. That didn't go well. At all. I've expressed the desire to T to write a letter to bio mom explaining why I don't want further contact with her, for her to remove me from the will, etc. He said he'd help with the language if I wanted him to.

No, I'm not in a zen place about this. I'm only now coming to the realization that I'll never have the relationships I want with my FOO because they're incapable of having meaningful, healthy relationships. That is unless they also started therapy. That'll never happen. I trust my T to help me navigate the transition, but I don't see myself becoming emotionally dependent on him. I'm realizing how lucky I am to have a pretty extensive support system available to me.

[ruh roh]

I wanted to add that there was a point when I wanted to cut off all ties with the one parent, but they were needing daily care and none of the other siblings would help. I told my therapist that I bet they were all seeing therapists who told them to cut ties and they did, which left me holding the bag. So, there is a downside to waiting too long to exit the building. If you sense there is at least one other family member still being sucked in...make for the door and don't look back, or that will be you. (Of course, if you've already put an ocean or two between you, that's not as likely to happen...but believe me, the pull of toxic foos creates an emotional undertow unlike any other.)

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I wanted to add that there was a point when I wanted to cut off all ties with the one parent, but they were needing daily care and none of the other siblings would help. I told my therapist that I bet they were all seeing therapists who told them to cut ties and they did, which left me holding the bag. So, there is a downside to waiting too long to exit the building. If you sense there is at least one other family member still being sucked in...make for the door and don't look back, or that will be you. (Of course, if you've already put an ocean or two between you, that's not as likely to happen...but believe me, the pull of toxic foos creates an emotional undertow unlike any other.)

(((rr))) -- yeah, you're bang on. The ocean or two does.not.help. Long story short (will spare you the details) but only sibling (older brother) has just gone back to the motherland to stay at home with the parental units (he's ridiculously professionally accomplished but literally can't function in very basic ways -- like get up, take a shower, eat etc, let alone hold down a job or do any other adult stuff like have a romantic relationship).

I feel like a terrible person but in some ways, when I wonder if my memory's playing tricks or things were really as bad as I recall growing up, I look at him and I'm like......yeah, I guess they were. I've tried to bail him out (even offered to pay for him to go to therapy) but nothing worked.

So, while a part of me does feel awful that he's now likely stuck holding the bag when it comes to the family, he was / is still the golden child (while I was / still am the black sheep), not to mention continues to be a d-bag to me (in fact, cutting off contact with him, except for the once-in-three-odd-years email attempt to bail him out, was the first step I took when friends started getting concerned about the effect of his charming self on me).

P.S. I really want to reply to all the other insightful [and poignant] posts as well -- my apologies, will do so when I get off my ruminating arse later this weekend.

I just want to say that all the posts here are very insightful to me regarding my situation although I'm not the OP.

My T has expressed a wish that I'll leave my home country to be with my SO, and therefore putting a lot of distance between me and my FOO. She hasn't pushed in any way though, and it's myself gradually wanting distance from my FOO, despite being female and therefore the lifelong future designated caregiver for my parents and the brother who only works when he wants to.

No doubt my parents would start calling a lot like they did when my sister went abroad for university in Australia, but Scandinavia is a lot further from Asia than Australia.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by Elio

So T says, something like a 2 day dosage, then really its more like a day to a day in a half because if I'm to wanting to punch her, it's no longer a healthy interaction.

Elio -- this is what I really struggle with as well. Figuring out when I'm approaching the I-need-to-get-outta-here point.

And, I'm in awe that you got to the point of transitioning (even if it was later than you wanted) while still keeping in touch with family.

Originally Posted by unaluna

I found out i transferred my need for approval from my family to my t. Thats a break i should have made as a teenager? But i finally developed a sense of agency, which is something the parents actively campaigned against. Taking that stand against my t was pretty scary. Still, i wouldnt try to do it preemptively for its own sake.

Una -- thank you (especially the caution against doing it pre-emptively). I can only imagine what it took to stand up to your T. But yes, along those lines, current T often talks about "separation and individuation".

I think, for me, taking a stand against my family hasn't been so much the issue but actually following up on the stand -- so, (and this is really a small example compared to all the other stuff) I came out to my family more than a decade ago and stood firm in the face of all the crap I got around it. But, I was somehow convinced that I could never introduce a woman to my family (like I could never put them through that). So, I just decided that I'd never get into a committed relationship -- it's only now that I'm beginning to even see how batshit crazy that thought process is.

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Future ex did cut off his parents and it did wonders for him - which considering how nasty he still was is pretty mind boggling.

Anyway, you know my position on your family contact. I wouldn't think you would get dependent on current t if there are other supportive people in your life. However...you maybe need to watch out that those relationships, friendly or romantic, don't mimic your relationship with your parents, in the sense of being abusive? For which current t might be useful.

I do take future ex as a cautionary tale on the potential charm-related benefits to be derived from cutting off my family

But yes, having other relationships makes total sense -- I'm currently in a sort of friendship / relationship vacuum (of my own choosing but still....) and so, need to fix it.

Originally Posted by satsuma

It all came to a head one summe when I visited them, and they told me I had to either agree with all their criticisms of me and apologise for being a bad person (this was something that happened often and when I was younger I always believed them and constantly apologised), or else I was not welcome in their home any more. So I chose to leave.
It was a healthy choice for me, and I then had no contact for a year, which was very restful, but since then I have chosen to have limited contact (a couple of visits per year, and some phone contact).

satsuma..... and holy crap?? Serious kudos to you for standing up to it.

And yes, thank you for the suggesting a measured approach to dealing with family -- I think I fear that somehow awful things will happen if I totally cut them off and so, doing it in a way that feels 'right' (which can shift over time) would be less stressful.

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I would LOVE to sever connections with them (intermediary) but I would have to move far away to do that, and my work keeps me here, so all I can do is not respond and hope that slows down the contact.

I figure it's like being in a burning building. Do you jump and risk landing hard (dependency on therapist or whatever emotional fallout comes of the jump) or stay and get burned alive by family? The latter is guaranteed misery. The former is a gamble, but one I think is worth the risk.

rr -- first, let me just reiterate my undying affection for your therapist (which is now seeing a sharp spike thanks to your 'In-Session' post).

I totally totally totally get the intermediary insanity (I'll spare you the details but suffice to say, physical distance seems to make no difference to these things). I hope you're able to throw them the heck out.

Btw, feeling stuck in a burning building is pretty much exactly how I feel....

Originally Posted by feileacan

I have basically cut off the contact with my FOO over the four years I've been in therapy although my T has never suggested that to me. I just felt myself that I've had enough of this pseudo-relationship that has been between me and my parents since the early childhood, which does not give anything to me.

I personally have never tied this issue with the dependence on my T.

feileacan -- the 'pseudo-relationship' hits the nail on the head. It's incredible that you were able to take a firm stance and also separate out the dependence issue vis-a-vis your T.

I think for me I'm just a trifle concerned (likely overly so) that some sort of emotional floodgates will open and I'll end up being literally unable to leave my T's office at the end of a session or something!

Originally Posted by Out There

I lost all my FOO over the course of my therapy thus far - my Mum died and my relationship with my Brother ended soon after. Interestingly my T is the same age as my Brother. I'm still working on the memories coming up with emotions rather than the rational thing and that's difficult. This can all be so tangled and complex but I hope you can find what's best for you. I wonder still why they couldn't just be normal.

Oh, OT......that's heart-breaking

As for still wondering why they couldn't just be normal -- let me know if you figure it out. The only possible explanation that's ever made sense to me is that we don't share the same DNA. I'm sticking to it in the absence of anything better.

Originally Posted by anais_anais

I cut off contact at the urging of both Ts. But I felt that I couldn't explore my trauma safely while still in relationship with the family, once the memories started coming back (I had repressed most of what happened).

As a result, the truth is I have become very dependent on my Ts. But they support me through it.

anais -- thank you for this. The six months of planning is just incredible -- I imagine you worked through a lot of the potential fallout during that time. And, I hear you completely on the memories coming back with the distance -- I hadn't realized the extent to which the defenses were in place until then.

It's awesome that your Ts are supporting you through it all.

Originally Posted by daisydid

I'm only now coming to the realization that I'll never have the relationships I want with my FOO because they're incapable of having meaningful, healthy relationships. That is unless they also started therapy.

Yep, I've also suggested therapy to various family members and.....nothing. It's great that you reached the realizaton that you'll never have the relationship you want -- current T keeps reminding me that all I'm losing (from distancing myself) is the false hope of a relationship.

Originally Posted by QuietMind

No doubt my parents would start calling a lot like they did when my sister went abroad for university in Australia, but Scandinavia is a lot further from Asia than Australia.

QM -- for the first time last week, I let their calls go to voicemail. And, only when it was 1am in the motherland (and they hopefully wouldn't be checking their phones), I sent back a short, polite text. Technology can work miracles

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I think for me I'm just a trifle concerned (likely overly so) that some sort of emotional floodgates will open and I'll end up being literally unable to leave my T's office at the end of a session or something!

Oh, I guess I haven't related the dependency issue with cutting off the FOO because those emotional floodgates opened before that. I have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil and in response to that I have done lots of things, including refusing to leave at the end of a session.

My guess is if this emotional turmoil is in you and you have held it back for years or tens of years then you probably have to let it go open one day anyway. Maybe it would make sense to evaluate your T before it happens: can she possibly take it? Can you trust her? Can you lean on her with full force? Because if those emotional floodgates open you need her to be rock-solid and trustworthy, you need to be sure that she will do anything to protect the treatment and to protect your relationship, that she will not let you destroy it or try to find a easy way out or abandon you.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by feileacan

Oh, I guess I haven't related the dependency issue with cutting off the FOO because those emotional floodgates opened before that. I have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil and in response to that I have done lots of things, including refusing to leave at the end of a session.

My guess is if this emotional turmoil is in you and you have held it back for years or tens of years then you probably have to let it go open one day anyway. Maybe it would make sense to evaluate your T before it happens: can she possibly take it? Can you trust her? Can you lean on her with full force? Because if those emotional floodgates open you need her to be rock-solid and trustworthy, you need to be sure that she will do anything to protect the treatment and to protect your relationship, that she will not let you destroy it or try to find a easy way out or abandon you.

Thank you for this.....ahh, the questions you've raised are the million dollar ones. I honestly can't get a good sense of how she'll respond, at least at this point.....maybe down the road, I could tell. I'd like to believe she'd come through but.....

[satsuma]

I also wanted to add, regarding emotional dependency, that I have a strong attachment to my T, and have at times been quite dependent. I also have a lot of caring friends in my life. I have noticed that since seeing T, I am a lot more able to trust other people and to have good relationships with people that I can rely on. In schema therapy it's supposed to work this way, that the T relationship gives a more healthy blueprint, which can then be used in other relationships. It really has worked that way for me. Sometimes when I read this forum I realise how lucky I am!