[LonesomeTonight]

If so, do they charge for any amount of outside contact? Just certain forms (like charging for phone call but not e-mail)? Just contact that takes longer than a certain amount of time (say, 15 minutes)? Or do they not allow outside contact at all?

To clarify, second option should say "any amount or type of contact." As in, would they charge for a 2-minute phone call, a brief (2-3 sentence) e-mail response, etc.

My t says she charges a pro-rated amount for phone calls over 15 minutes but I rarely call so haven't seen how that works. She's never charged me for emails, but responds only very briefly to them if at all.

[ElectricManatee]

No charge for outside contact, which for my T is phone calls and email (no texting). Phone calls have lasted anywhere from 10-45 minutes, but usually they are 15-25 minutes. I have never sent or received an email longer than 1-2 short paragraphs (or else I would just call). It seems really generous to me, but so far she has been willing to do it.

I've never had a therapist charge for outside contact, but I've never been one to make too much outside contact unless there was an emergency. I'm not certain they were "free" for every client. I honestly don't remember what their official policy stated, but my guess is that there was probably some point at which charges might be made -- I just never noticed it.

I know my pdoc does charge for after hours services, but I also know that is to some extent at his discretion because again, he never charged me because I was very reasonable about how much contact I asked for and he never found that I contacted him except when it was an emergency.

ETA: I think it is reasonable to charge for services after hours so long as those policies are known up front.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T charges for phone calls over 15mins. We've never gone over 15mins luckily.

[atisketatasket]

Some of them had contracts that stated they would, but I never used it that much except with 3, so I don't know.

But the ones I have used outside contact with are private practice, and 3 called it "part of the package." Those who took insurance were much more adamant they would charge if there were outside contact, since they could not bill insurance for it and were already not getting their full fee from insurance.

No, he doesn't charge. But he brought up a long time ago how he doesn't get paid for emails.

Not that I sent that many, but I told him something to the effect that I don't get paid extra either for emails I return outside of work hours. And that was that.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Some of them had contracts that stated they would, but I never used it that much except with 3, so I don't know.

But the ones I have used outside contact with are private practice, and 3 called it "part of the package." Those who took insurance were much more adamant they would charge if there were outside contact, since they could not bill insurance for it and were already not getting their full fee from insurance.

Hm, interesting...the person who charges (T2) is in private practice (and, like, I hand him my credit card, so pretty sure he's getting full fee!). There's just been a...misunderstanding maybe? on what I thought was a pretty straightforward policy. And he seems to be going back on something else he said earlier, but maybe I misunderstood something.

Like I thought he only charged if over 15 minutes, and then he'd give a grace period of one e-mail, then say "Hey, in the future, I'd charge you for a response that long." And that a long e-mail maybe once a quarter is fine, no charge. And brief e-mails (taking <15 minutes to read/respond) are fine like 2 out of 3 weeks. But then he tried to charge me for the first long e-mail (no warning), that I only sent because I figured there wouldn't be a charge. He's refunding the charge but was weird about it, claiming I misremembered the conversation (it was 2 weeks ago!) and that from now on he'd be charging for any outside contact that wasn't about scheduling. Not clear on whether that now includes brief e-mails, including where I wouldn't want a response or would just want "Yep, read it." (guess I have to wait a week to ask that...)

T1 and MC have never charged for outside contact (they don't tend to write much in response to e-mails or texts, if they respond at all, and phone calls are just occasional).

Sounds a bit wiley. I would have a hard time trusting him after that.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

Sounds a bit wiley. I would have a hard time trusting him after that.

Yeah, we're definitely going to discuss it to start next session. (Normally, I'd want to e-mail or call and resolve it now, but...) Trust is a big thing with me...and people changing their minds about something without telling me. I'm going to see if he can give me his policy in writing, too.

Basically, I'm going to see how he handles all this and go from there, like decide whether to continue seeing him. In some ways, it feels like it's bad that this is happening so early on. But as my H put it, better to have it happen now than (like some stuff with T1 and MC) when I *am* really invested in the relationship. I get to see how he handles conflict and my being upset with him about something. If he fails that test--especially when I explain why it's such a big thing to me--well, I have another T on my list I plan to try.

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I'm not sure. After hours calls to therapists and pdocs in my office are a flat $20 fee no matter how long you talk, but I can imagine they wouldn't want to talk to you for like 4 hours.

I've talked to my pdoc after hours for 18 mins once and only got a $20 fee. I'm not sure what I would contact my therapist out of office for since my pdoc seems to handle crises for me. Regardless, my therapist never really oulined the boundaries. I don't know if she does email, but I know she won't read anything outside of our appointments (she's told me that before when I asked her to read one of my psych reports that was only 2 and a half pages). So probably not on the email. I wonder if it's an office policy.

[Salmon77]

Seems like it would be really hard to keep track of whether there was a charge or not, if now and then it's free but did he give warning or whatever. Much simpler to just charge every time.

I answered that my T doesn't allow outside contact but in truth I've never asked. His emails re scheduling and whatever are always very brief. I don't want outside contact so maybe it's me that doesn't allow it.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Salmon77

Seems like it would be really hard to keep track of whether there was a charge or not, if now and then it's free but did he give warning or whatever. Much simpler to just charge every time.

I answered that my T doesn't allow outside contact but in truth I've never asked. His emails re scheduling and whatever are always very brief. I don't want outside contact so maybe it's me that doesn't allow it.

Well, I will say that the one he initially charged for, he gave a really long response, like several long paragraphs. Which was much longer than the several sentences I'd generally get from T1 or MC (he occasionally gives me a couple short paragraphs, but nothing like what T2 wrote). The problem is, I think I ended up more confused by some of what he said in his e-mail (since it didn't fully seem to address what I was asking about and seemed to ramble a bit). It might have been better if he'd just written something brief.

Also, if the charge is the same, I'd take a 15-minute phone call over a 15-minute e-mail response, especially if it's something he said in session that was bothering me or if I was just really upset/in a bad place. I plan to ask him about that next session, too. I don't think we really discussed phone calls--except his saying that if it was something long I wanted to discuss in e-mail, another option would be phone call or scheduling extra session. The thing is, I can't bill the e-mail charge to my insurance (we get out-of-network benefits, and e-mail isn't covered--that's how it was listed on the invoice, too). So the $45 for the e-mail actually kinda close to what I pay out of pocket for a 50-minute session (or at least more than half). I may be able to bill insurance for phone calls, depending on how he codes them.

[Spangle]

My t doesn’t charge. He is awesome. I try to only contact him when I really need him. He knows that & always responds. He even knows which of my inner children it is that’s reaching out to him too.

[InnerPeace111]

I didn’t vote. My T has never shared her policy with me regarding outside contact and I’ve never asked her. I only rarely contact her by email for a day or time change when necesssry. As a result of no outside contact (and among other things as well), I’ve become far more comfortable with, as Pema Chodron would say, “living beautifully with uncertainty and change.”

[junkDNA]

No.. He never has

[stopdog]

The first one has never said anything about it and the second one said she charged in 10ths of an hour after the first 15 minutes of a phone call - but I doubt I ever talked more than 6-7 minutes if that long and I only called like 3 times in 6 years so it did not come up much. I did not contact where I wanted a response from them except in a rare couple of occasions and in those instances - it was a big thing going on so it mostly has not come up. The second one was clear in the policy and upfront even though she did not ever try to bill me for it.

I do think it would be clearer for all parties involved if they would, after being completely upfront and direct right off the bat, just go ahead and charge in 10ths of the hour - then everyone would know where things stood.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

The first one has never said anything about it and the second one said she charged in 10ths of an hour after the first 15 minutes of a phone call - but I doubt I ever talked more than 6-7 minutes and I only called like 3 times so it did not come up. I have never contacted where I wanted a response from them except in a rare couple of occasions and in those instances - it was a big thing going on so it mostly has not come up.

I do think it would be clearer for all parties involved if they would just go ahead and charge in 10ths of the hour - then everyone would know where things stood.

I think I might prefer 10ths of an hour to quarters of an hour, like this T charges. Supposedly not for the first 15 minutes, but then if it was anywhere from 16 to 29 minutes total, that's $45 (his hourly fee is $175). I think.

Part of it is that I've been totally spoiled by T's who don't charge for any outside contact. So this is a bit jarring to me, especially when the policy apparently hasn't been explained clearly. Thinking I'll see if he can give it to me in writing, actually. (I suspect as a lawyer, you'd be in favor of that.)

It seems particularly confusing for e-mail (or text, I suppose). I mean, a phone call, you can see on the phone how long you were on the call. But how can you tell exactly how long it would take for a T to read an e-mail, process it, and respond? (I mean, unless the initial e-mail was clearly a novel.) And, since he implied brief e-mails have no charge (as long as not every week): Can I just send a brief e-mail and say "Just let me know you got this," aka "Please don't send me a $45 worth response"?

[stopdog]

I think this guy is trying to get you to not look for him to reassure you. Could you try just sending it and trusting that the email to him, like most email in my experience - actually did get to him?

[AllHeart]

Ex-t had a policy where she charged clients for outside contact if phone calls went over 10 minutes. Maybe it was 20 minutes. I don't totally remember and she never charged me. Of course, she was the one calling me. She never charged for emails but she supposedly only allowed a client 1 email per week.

New t doesn't charge for outside contact but she doesn't allow for it on a regular basis.

$45 for dealing with your email seems exorbitant. And really, if he's gonna charge for outside contact he should have spelled it all out in writing for you ahead of time. Is it his policy to charge all clients for outside contact?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think this guy is trying to get you to not look for him to reassure you. Could you try just sending it and trusting that the email to him, like most email in my experience - actually did get to him?

I get the sense though from what he said over text today, that he might also charge for simply reading e-mails (which, again, contradicts what he said earlier). Right, that's what you mean--the not needing for him to say, "Yep, got your e-mail"?

Honestly, it might do you some good to have a therapist with some boundaries around outside contact; you've become rather reliant on them. I agree, you need to be on the same page about the fees, but it may be good for you to have to really decide if that email is so important and necessary that you are willing to have to pay for it.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

Ex-t had a policy where she charged clients for outside contact if phone calls went over 10 minutes. Maybe it was 20 minutes. I don't totally remember and she never charged me. Of course, she was the one calling me. She never charged for emails but she supposedly only allowed a client 1 email per week.

New t doesn't charge for outside contact but she doesn't allow for it on a regular basis.

$45 for dealing with your email seems exorbitant. And really, if he's gonna charge for outside contact he should have spelled it all out in writing for you ahead of time. Is it his policy to charge all clients for outside contact?

I'm under the impression that's just his policy. I mistakenly assumed his laying it all out verbally in session was sufficient, because it sounded fairly clear to me (T1 and MC--who don't charge--never outlined a specific policy...which is probably what got me into trouble with T1, because I had no way of knowing that the e-mails were getting to be too much for her...until they were).

I mean, he did write a MUCH longer response to my e-mail than anything T1 or MC ever did (well, MC had a couple fairly long ones, but still shorter than T2's). So, technically, he may have spent a half hour on it between reading and responding. However, it doesn't really seem fair that it's the same rate as in-session time (especially because I can't bill it to insurance). I mean, he could have been sitting there in his PJs, drinking a beer, watching TV while he responded at leisure. It's not the same to me as having to be totally present in person in a session (or even at the same level as a phone call--which to me is more session-like).

If it was, say, $20, I'd see that as more fair, but I sincerely doubt he'd be willing to negotiate prices. And I'm now unclear as to whether he does in fact charge for those under 15 minutes. I mean, if I send him a 100-word e-mail not requiring a response...I would certainly hope he wouldn't charge for that--especially not $45! Though his text implied that he'd charge for all non-scheduling related contact.

Wish I didn't have to wait till next Wed. to address all this...but I also don't want to pay, so...

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Well, I will say that the one he initially charged for, he gave a really long response, like several long paragraphs. Which was much longer than the several sentences I'd generally get from T1 or MC (he occasionally gives me a couple short paragraphs, but nothing like what T2 wrote). The problem is, I think I ended up more confused by some of what he said in his e-mail (since it didn't fully seem to address what I was asking about and seemed to ramble a bit). It might have been better if he'd just written something brief.

Also, if the charge is the same, I'd take a 15-minute phone call over a 15-minute e-mail response, especially if it's something he said in session that was bothering me or if I was just really upset/in a bad place. I plan to ask him about that next session, too. I don't think we really discussed phone calls--except his saying that if it was something long I wanted to discuss in e-mail, another option would be phone call or scheduling extra session. The thing is, I can't bill the e-mail charge to my insurance (we get out-of-network benefits, and e-mail isn't covered--that's how it was listed on the invoice, too). So the $45 for the e-mail actually kinda close to what I pay out of pocket for a 50-minute session (or at least more than half). I may be able to bill insurance for phone calls, depending on how he codes them.

Wow. If his $45 email charge is close to your share of an office visit co-pay, I would be asking for a second session; of course, you run the risk that he doesn't have any openings.

I'm not saying that how he handles this is right, or even makes sense, but I do know that long emails require a lot of thought to reply to. It might be clear to you what you are most wanting to hear back about, but it might not be to the person at the other end. So that takes time to sort through.

Anyway, I remember that you came away from that first session with a very clear understanding that he would charge for anything that took more than 15 minutes of his time, but that he would give you a heads up first, before he charged--just like how you described your understanding here. So that's what would set my teeth on edge, the fact that he acted like he never said that.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Honestly, it might do you some good to have a therapist with some boundaries around outside contact; you've become rather reliant on them. I agree, you need to be on the same page about the fees, but it may be good for you to have to really decide if that email is so important and necessary that you are willing to have to pay for it.

Yeah, that was my thinking when he first shared the policy. But at the time, he also said short ones (less than 15 minutes total reading/responding) would be no charge, and it would be fine if those were, say, 2 out of every 3 weeks, but if it was every week, he would say something. Not sure if that means he'd start charging, or just be like "Hey, cut back on the e-mailing" or what. I figured that would be a good way to limit myself (both length and frequency).

But, OK, I asked him about length, and I had sent him one right after our first session because he'd said he "didn't want to steal [me] from T1" and I wanted to clarify that it was up to me if I decided to see him on longer vs. short-term basis. He sent a brief response to that. In session, when I asked about it, he said it took him about 3 minutes to read and 30 seconds to respond, so that was fine. I didn't e-mail at all the week after that. (thinking of the 2/3 being ok rule). I knew the long one last week would likely count as my "free pass" (like no charge for that, but charge for future ones that long). But, again, part of his response to my text implied he'd now charge for ALL outside contact (I assume even short things).

So, clearly, I need to clarify next week...