[atisketatasket]

I do think that requiring aspiring therapists to go through therapy themselves is a good idea. I don’t think I’d see one who hadn’t. It’s putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

But, does it really make them more effective therapists? All of the ones I’ve seen have been through therapy. It does not make them any better at empathizing with client experience of therapy, it does not make them any more sensitive in their actions, it does not make them any more ethical or professional in their behavior, it does not seem to give them any capacity for self-reflection or dealing with their own stuff so it doesn’t leak into sessions, and it very definitely does not make them better at regulating their own actions and emotions so as not to harm the client.

Or, maybe they’d be even worse if they hadn’t been to therapy?

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I do think that requiring aspiring therapists to go through therapy themselves is a good idea. I don’t think I’d see one who hadn’t. It’s putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

But, does it really make them more effective therapists? All of the ones I’ve seen have been through therapy. It does not make them any better at empathizing with client experience of therapy, it does not make them any more sensitive in their actions, it does not make them any more ethical or professional in their behavior, it does not seem to give them any capacity for self-reflection or dealing with their own stuff so it doesn’t leak into sessions, and it very definitely does not make them better at regulating their own actions and emotions so as not to harm the client.

Or, maybe they’d be even worse if they hadn’t been to therapy?

It probably also depends if they really "did the work" on themselves, or just phoned it in so to speak.

[unaluna]

Yeah. Thats why my current recommendation is a t who has successfully navigated a life crisis similar to your own. You define the nature of that success. So you kinda hafta find something you like in the t. Just seeing them as an authority didnt work for me. You dont have to like everything about them, but totally disrespecting them from the get-go was just repeating the past for me.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn

It probably also depends if they really "did the work" on themselves, or just phoned it in so to speak.

Sure, if they’re just checking a box to get their degree.

But all of mine that I know any details of were either in therapy before entering their degree program, continued or did it after their degree, or were not actually required to do therapy by their program. That would suggest a level of commitment.

Eta: and if some therapists are phoning in their therapy, that speaks even worse of the requirement. I don’t think one can excuse or explain all bad therapy by therapists who have been a client by saying, “oh, they must have phoned it in.”

I put yes he has. I have no opinion on whether he needs any more. If he does he can work that out for himself.
I know I am a better therapist for having had my own therapy. I am learning all the time of course, but having been through the therapeutic process (both good therapy and poor therapy) has given me an understanding of what it is to be vulnerable in this kind of a relationship. I hope that means I would have a greater awareness of the impact of my words and actions, and I would have a better than average chance of avoiding harm to my clients (though I would never be complacent about this).
My therapist has said he learnt a lot from his therapist and I have learnt a lot from him, which I think is a positive thing.
The other side of the coin is that my first therapist had also received therapy yet he was an incompetent fool with zero self-awareness. So it is probably as much about the therapist themselves and their ability to engage with the therapy and look at their own stuff non-defensively, than just the fact of having therapy.

I don’t think that it’s a given, no. I think that therapists should go to therapy to work out their issues, but that doesn’t correlate to them being a good therapist.

Example A: RoboT. He mentioned frequently that he’s been in therapy for 30+ years, and yet couldn’t do the basics of leaving his s*** out of the room with me. I don’t think he’s like that with all of his clients, but I think I just elicited that countertransference.

Both of mine have been a lot of own therapy, yes. One was okay for me, the other one (~75 yo, with apparently 40+ years of own therapy) pretty horrible and constantly caught up in his issues and infusing my therapy with them. I would have never assumed that some Ts never had therapy themselves until I read about such cases. It sounds weird, maybe like a mechanic who never took apart a car or other machines but offers to fix them for others. I definitely had a different idea of what it might be like to be in therapy before trying it myself for a while in spite of studying lots of psychology.

So I do think that the first hand experience should bring them closer to the reality of it, but I do not believe that alone would make them more competent, compassionate, helpful, or objective. I would think it is part of their training and professional experience but far from enough to make someone effective.

Actually, I found the most helpful person for my main issue in a peer support group. He also had a background as a therapist, but that's not how I met him. I liked those groups because people really understood each-other and could also offer practical advice that actually was realistic and effective, all based on first hand experience. A T that was never a client in therapy sounds rather bizarre to me, but simply "working on their own issues" is hardly enough I think, if for nothing else, because people have all kinds of issues. My bad T had all that experience but a main problem area between us was that we were radically different in personality, backgrounds, problems etc and he seemed to be only able to work effectively within a narrow area that he was familiar with.

[Carmina]

Being in therapy should be as essential as being under supervision for any therapist

It always has been for most psychodynamic and humanistic traditions - but apparently less so for more recent approaches such as CBT/DBT.

btw I forgot to say I checked "yes". she has never left therapy herself, as she told me recently. That's probably why she's not understanding my desire to, as well as she understands pretty much everything else I go in there with.

[stopdog]

I think it is good for them to have endured that which they inflict. I doubt it makes them better at their nebulous and self-serving understanding of their job.

[ruh roh]

From what she's indicated, my therapist has only been in therapy as a therapist, never as a regular client struggling for respect and balance in the relationship. I've tried to explain this to her, but unless she was ever a client before becoming a therapist, she will never know how we are treated differently than those in a peer to peer therapy situation. For example, I don't think that in a peer to peer therapy exchange, there is as much technique-y stuff going on or maneuvering, because the therapist as client is going to call that stuff out.

I don't really know if seeing a therapist helps my therapist be a better therapist because of this difference. I do think for some, it's really helpful--especially if they were in therapy prior, or on the road, to becoming a therapist (like Runcible).

[InnerPeace111]

I don’t know if my therapist has ever been in therapy herself. I’ve just never asked her. My guess is that if a therapist has been a client themselves, then it has the potential to make them a better therapist. In addition, I think some of the very best therapists are those who’ve experienced their own hardships, struggles, and heartbreak. I know a therapist (she’s not mine) who grew up in human trafficking and she is by far the most kind, compassionate, and empathetic person I’ve ever met in my life.

[Ididitmyway]

Yes, it does. It doesn't necessarily make them do a good job, but the same therapist with no personal therapy experience would do a poorer job than when he knows what it's like to be a therapy client.

I would absolutely make undergoing personal therapy a mandatory requirement for getting licensed.

That being said, personal therapy experience, while necessary, is not enough to ensure that the therapist is effective.

First off, there is always a limit of how much one can resolve in therapy. There will always be unresolved deep seated issues, no matter how much therapy one receives. The best the therapist could do after doing some of their own therapy work is simply be aware of those unresolved issues in order to know the limits within which they can work. Therapists are most effective when they work only with those clients with whom they can establish good rapport and good working alliance and only with the problems they feel passionate and most knowledgeable about. But a therapist should know her/himself well enough in order to determine who s/he should and should not be working with and what kind of work s/he should and should not be doing. A personal therapy certainly helps to gain this kind of self-awareness.

Another reason why having a personal therapy experience is not a guarantee that a therapist will do a good job is that many times therapy is not effective at all. More often than not clients, including those who are therapists, see therapists only for the purpose of getting weekly emotional support from someone and also, as a regular routine, just to give themselves an illusion that they are doing the work they are not really doing just because this "thing" is on their schedule. So, just because someone has seen a therapist for some time doesn't necessarily mean they have done some meaningful work.

[LonesomeTonight]

I'm responding for MC (marriage counselor) here, because I know from what he's said that he's been through a lot of his own therapy. But I responded to the poll that he has had personal therapy, but could use some more. I think some countertransference comes out toward me...and I think if he'd dealt with his own stuff more, that wouldn't be an issue.

[WarmFuzzySocks]

Mine has. She's mentioned her former therapist a couple times in the context of our conversations.

[healinginprogress]

Yes, my T has been in therapy. I'm not sure if she still goes regularly but she's mentioned that she does have her own therapist if there are issues that she needs help resolving.

I think ultimately it's helpful for a therapist to have been in therapy, but I also think that it depends on the specialty, population, and therapist if it's absolutely necessary.

[annielovesbacon]

I don't know if my therapist has gone/goes to therapy herself, but I hope she has. I personally believe all people, even those who do not have mental illnesses, can benefit from therapy. That said, it's the same for therapists as it is for us -- they only get out of therapy what they put into it. If they "phone it in" because it's a requirement for their degree, or whatever, they probably didn't benefit much.
My T seems to be really self-aware when she says things that don't make me feel better (such as "I don't have a solution to this particular problem -- I know it sucks to hear that, and I'm sorry), so I wonder if she has gone to therapy and recognizes what is and isn't helpful. Then again, she could just be naturally self-aware.

I suppose better than the job they would do if they didn't have therapy.

I'm not sure if T who never did therapy would always be less competent than one who did. Think of a T who needed 10+years of therapy--could mean they have a truckload of issues.

One of my Ts who did his own therapy had trouble owning his stuff and would always blame me no matter what. That was one thing I couldn't get past, caused tremendous problems.

[Myrto]

Yes it’s the bare minimum that therapists go through their own therapy.
Like, I don’t even understand how it’s not a recquirement for every single therapist everywhere.
Does being in therapy make them better at their job? Absolutely not. I mean they’d be worse if they hadn’t gone but that’s a pretty low bar.
For instance my therapist states on her website that she’s gone through her own psychoanalysis (she’s a psychoanalyst herself).
The thing is, she isn’t particularly insightful she’s gotten defensive several times and even yelled at me at some point in session, all things any reasonable client should not expect from a therapist who’s gone through therapy.
But who decides when therapy is over? A therapist can simply decide «*well I don’t need therapy anymore*» even when they clearly need a lot more.
Who decides that therapy is no longer necessary? It’s even more elusive with psychoanalysis because it’s mostly «*my father did this, my mother did this*» ********.
The whole thing is subjective and there is no way for a client to assess whether the therapist is sane enough and has worked on themselves enough.
There is no guarantee.

I think it depends a little on their style of therapy. For CBT - I don't think so. Other therapies - probably.

[doogie]

This is from a different perspective...

My husband is a T (he is trained as a T, but at this point in his career is not doing much counseling and is doing more administrative work). He has never been in therapy himself. I am in therapy, and it is clear that he does not understand what it is like to be on the client side of therapy. He doesn't fully understand the feelings and issues that clients can have toward their therapists, etc. It isn't that he's not caring or compassionate - he is - but I think that never having experienced therapy as a client himself really limits his perspective and understanding of what clients experience. I fully believe that Ts that have experienced personal therapy have an advantage over those who haven't. I don't know that it makes them a more effective T in terms of technique or theory, but I do believe that it helps them to understand the client experience more clearly.

[awkwardlyyours]

(I'm rather mad [again] at current T and so...)

<<Yes, and they sure could use some more therapy>>

Apparently she's done therapy twice -- both times non-short-term. The second time around in fact for three times a week for chrissake.

And, a whole lot of supervision, it seems.

But yeah, she sure shows that she could use a lot more therapy herself.

Either that or it just shows how therapy doesn't change some fundamental crappiness.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

Either that or it just shows how therapy doesn't change some fundamental crappiness.

I don’t know anyone who has been made a better person by therapy. Their lives might become better, but they retain their basic nature. So if they’re a condescending jackass they stay a condescending jackass. (Not thinking of soon to be ex-mother-in-law here, oh no...)

Fortunately most people are not by nature condescending jackasses.

Or, in the case of current t, pampered and clueless.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I don’t know anyone who has been made a better person by therapy. Their lives might become better, but they retain their basic nature. So if they’re a condescending jackass they stay a condescending jackass. (Not thinking of soon to be ex-mother-in-law here, oh no...)

Fortunately most people are not by nature condescending jackasses.

Or, in the case of current t, pampered and clueless.

I know, right? I think at best, it just helps people adjust to other people to the point that they at least can delude themselves into believing that they're carrying out a reasonable approximation of the veneer of civilization.

Ah, current T -- I keep fantasizing about trying your brilliant line and asking her if she runs into Henry VIII while playing court tennis

(Sadly though, I believe, it'll completely escape her.)

[SummerTime12]

This is interesting because I just recently found out that my T has never had any therapy. I was surprised because I'd thought it was a requirement. He is a really good and effective therapist in my opinion, but this left me with mixed feelings. I wonder how much he can truly empathize with me, having never been a client himself. He said he does not tell most clients this because for many, they wouldn't want to see him if they knew. It's certainly not a deal breaker for me now that I've been seeing him for several months and know that I like him as a therapist, but I think that if I'd found out before getting further along in the therapy process, I probably would have chosen to go to someone else.