[thesnowqueen]

I was seeing a CBT therapist for 8 years when he passed away and I eventually found another therapist I liked but she is not CBT orientated. My CBT therapist was seldom if ever shocked by things my narcissistic mother said to me, or had said to me.

My new therapist generally shows more of a response and puts more stock in early experience. However despite all that I remember I don't think I was ever subjected to anything so bad as to cause my CPTSD. Other people's stories of emotional abuse are usually far worse.

Some recent events have reminded me that I am unattractive. Now that I am nearly 40 I think that caused fewer traumatic experiences. People my age are not primarily invested in the mating game and narratives of people my age do not focus on romantic relationships between developing teens. Furthermore I think as people age they generally become less attractive so unattractive people do not have the shock of people becoming less responsive to their beauty. People never did respond so there is no change.

However, thinking back about this and reading other people's experiences of being unattractive (according to principles of symmetry, etc etc) has brought to me the fact that my adolescence was strongly affected by this. I think trauma can be caused by such things as NEVER receiving cards or tokens on Valentine's Day; being consistently invisible at bats and clubs even when dancing alone on the dance floor, or opening oneself up to advances and none being made.

I trusted my last therapist very much so when I asked him if I was at least average in looks, and he said yes, I believed him. And the fact of aging made his assertion more plausible. However i am now realising that he really COULDNT say I was worse, no matter how truthful he was.

I am thinking that the focus on early experience, and parenting may have been misleading. I am not sure how to bring this up in a way that will allow her to be honest about the way I look - and more so - how I looked as a teen/young adult. It generally gets passed off as my giving off signals to leave me alone due to my negative beliefs about myself etc etc. Really I don't believe this can explain it all, or even part of it. How can I get her to acknowledge this?

My one and only really traumatic experience from my childhood, that had ~life-long impact on me no matter how much I would want it to vanish, was being bullied by kids for my weight. Not being unattractive per se, just a bit overweight (not even seriously obese). In my memory, it was the period between ~age 4 and 10, when I had enough, got on a drastic diet and lost all the excess weight fast, and more. Then I had an eating disorder for ~another 10 years but no issues about my looks from external perspective, quite the opposite...

One of my therapists, a psychoanalyst very much focused on early life experiences, was very dismissive about that area of my life and the lasting impact and tried to constantly focus on my parenting and my parents, who were never abusive or neglecting as far as their own awareness allowed it. I also sometimes felt that he minimized the issue as the way he got to know me (as a 40 yo) was very far from the overweight, insecure, shy kid I used to be... it was almost like he did not believe me.

As far as parents - they actually gave me too much attention at times that I perceived as intrusive, but not destructive. The damaging things came from those early peer relationships and reactions (from the other kids), which also completely disappeared as I lost the excess weight - but not the insecurities caused by it. I actually got into some serious fights with my T over his trying to place too much blame on my parenting and ignoring where the real abuse came from. I believe that therapists often put too much emphasis on parenting and dismiss that early social experience is far more than our parents and family. I think they also often erroneously associate transferences with parents while they are not always the origin of them, or not the most significant source (another experience I had with that therapist). I think it's interesting to listen to Ts opinions and feedback, but better to take it with a grain of salt and evaluate with own feelings and perceptions. I also very much disliked my Ts take on my parents who apparently did not protect me from the bullying. How could parents defend us against the rest of the world, they are not around in school and other social venues and kids often feel ashamed and do not talk about such things with parents (my case, for example).

On how to get realistic feedback from a T about your looks - what comes to mind: why is it important for you what she thinks about it? What one other person thinks? People have all kinds of tastes and ideas about beauty, so putting too much weigh on one opinion can be very misleading.

For me, a much better way of getting more secure in that area has come from taking care of myself, in my own way. Focusing on features I like about myself and trying to be creative about those. And in some areas, using modern technology to modify body features. Choosing clothing that I like, not necessarily what is in fashion and what others like. In other words, taking it as a creative project and not getting into extremes with it. I do seriously believe that seeking external reassurance in terms of physical appearance is not the best way to develop more peace with it, especially not based on a Ts opinion.

[thesnowqueen]

I agree with most or maybe all of this I do think that someone good looking can use fashion, etc, as more of a creative expression. More things look good on one, etc. If experiments draw attention it is more likely to be favourable. That being said I agree that this is the best approach.

For someone ugly the bullying continues throughout ones schooling. And often one does not understand the reason for the exclusion, put-downs and isolating. I too was ashamed of it and never mentioned it to parents. However I would be crying most days when I came back from school and this was mostly ignored. Whether greater interest or affection would have helped? I don't know.

I do think I have issues around mirroring and identity. Sometimes I think I am quite good looking! If a camera gets me at just the right angle, capturing me at a rare moment in which I do not have a weird expression, I can look good. Then I build too much on this incidental and relatively rare image. I have great difficulty in being certain about my general attributes and so I can be all over the place about that. Much depends on the way someone has interacted with me. I think this highly unstable self esteem could come from problems with early mirroring. And this explains why I need a really reliable person who can reflect me back in an accurate way.

I think the beauty of a person is fairly inter-subjective. Experiments have shown that people respond to symmetry and largely overlap on their opinions. So I guess I feel that anyone well-enough disposed towards me could give me fairly reliable feedback.