[SophiaG]

I think it's founded on a lot of fear and misinformation. Sometimes I run up against it online. What's your opinion on it?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by SophiaG

I think it's founded on a lot of fear and misinformation. Sometimes I run up against it online. What's your opinion on it?

I dont think its all just fear and misinformation. I have met many people where seeing a psychaitrist or therapist was about pride. Some people think its a weakness to see a therapist or psychiatrist. With some people its about finances. there are many folks out there who would see a therapist or psychiatrist if they had the finances to do so. I also believe its about core beliefs, not neccessarily wrong or right. just a fact of life for some people that believe a persons problems should be dealt with as a family unit or kept in the family, no go airing dirty laundry out in public. theres also stigma for example it wouldnt be the first time someone got fired from their jobs because they were mentally ill.

[purple_fins]

I think it can be helpful, in that, it won't enable the psych field to think they are the end all. It is good, IMO, to question things..... where would we be in this world if no one ever questioned things.

while I can see that some of the "anti-psych" stuff is out of fear, I think some of it is very healthy and has good sturdy feet to stand on... but that's just my opinion.

I say-- keep on questioning-- it may(I did say "may") help the culture, as a whole, to move forward.

fins

[Ygrec23]

Ummmm, what IS anti-psychiatry? Like Szasz? Take care.

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by SophiaG

I think it's founded on a lot of fear and misinformation. Sometimes I run up against it online. What's your opinion on it?

A lot of the negative things I hear about psychiatry and therapy are rooted in ignorance. There are still people who believe that mental illness is some sort of weakness on the part of the person with the problem. They have that old idea that folks with depression would be all better if they only thought positive thoughts, that sort of thing.

[Travelinglady]

Yes, I'd like to hear more about what people are saying these days, too. I have to admit that I'm not happy with how the mental-health field has ended up, with people having to go to psychiatrists to get meds and to therapists for counseling. I am glad that more people are getting training, so that they can give meds, too.

Plus, I just don't find many psychiatrists that I feel much confidence in. I think that they sometimes get "bought" by Big Pharma, with all the pens, clocks, etc. that they get from reps, and they don't know that much about the drugs they are prescribing....Is that "anti-psychiatry"?

It's a lot like any other anti-establishment garbage. People who are obsessed with money tend to accuse everybody else of being obsessed with money, so they think psychiatry is all about the dollar signs. "You can get well without taking medicine, but they won't tell you that, because they just want your money." Yeah? Says who? You? When did you get your medical degree? I'll bet the guy who wrote "Natural Cures They Don't Want You To Know About" (presumably, because they want your money) isn't giving HIS book away for free.

I've dealt with mental health issues since I was 6 years old. 40 years later, I know very well that I cannot function normally without seeing a psychiatrist and therapist, and taking medicine. You don't hear people say, "Don't take your dilantin; just decide not to have a seizure." Or, "Forget about insulin, use positive thinking, and make up your mind you're not going to be diabetic." But they feel free to babble about anti-psychiatry?

[purple_fins]

while I'm not sure EXACTLY who Sophia-the thread originator was referring, Szasz is one of the mindset of anti-psych- Ygrec.

heres a site that may help some understand the foundation of "anti-psych" thoughts......http://www.antipsychiatry.org/

some, is out of fear-- but some is out of questioning some things that NEED questioning(IMO)
There are many many psychologists that are of the "anti-psych" mindset- it's not just lay people.

[SophiaG]

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Psychiatry

There's an article on the subject if anyone is interested.

[whenwillitend]

Originally Posted by LovebirdsFlying

It's a lot like any other anti-establishment garbage. People who are obsessed with money tend to accuse everybody else of being obsessed with money, so they think psychiatry is all about the dollar signs. "You can get well without taking medicine, but they won't tell you that, because they just want your money." Yeah? Says who? You? When did you get your medical degree? I'll bet the guy who wrote "Natural Cures They Don't Want You To Know About" (presumably, because they want your money) isn't giving HIS book away for free.

I've dealt with mental health issues since I was 6 years old. 40 years later, I know very well that I cannot function normally without seeing a psychiatrist and therapist, and taking medicine. You don't hear people say, "Don't take your dilantin; just decide not to have a seizure." Or, "Forget about insulin, use positive thinking, and make up your mind you're not going to be diabetic." But they feel free to babble about anti-psychiatry?

I totally agree with that. Without psychiatrists and therapists and meds, I'd be dead by now. I know I'll be on meds for the rest of my life, and I know I can't function without them.
Just look at Tom Cruise. I don't even know where to start. It's plain old ignorance. someone who thinks he knows it all, just because he's rich and famous. And sadly, for that same reason people believe the crap he said. People need to be educated about what mental illness really is.

[Ygrec23]

Hmmmmm. Sounds like a crock to me. Take care.

Just read about Mr Tom Cruise and his views :O wow a man with a lot of information ! Its a shame its all worthless ....

[Junerain]

Personally I believe those who do not seek psychiatric help or therapeutic help due to their pride......they have a tad too much pride....they need to break down the walls around them a bit..it is these kinds of people who hurt me and hurt me badly when my mind was a bit off, terrorized me for it..

[hayward]

I think there are a variety of reasons at work here like others have said- fear ignorance pride etc..

There are also lots of people who have tried seeing doctors and have had repeated bad experiences.

I think sometimes people think that when they or someone they know makes the decision to see a psychiatrist- that now they will be okay. They don't allow for the fact that the doctor just may be no good, or there is not a good match etc.. for whatever reason.

When my kids were little , I use to hear their friend's parents say things like :
"Just do what the teacher tells you to do- the teacher is always right." And these parents would go to conferences and be told what they should and shouldn't do with their child, and what the kid's problems and needs were. And they come out questioning themselves because this "professional" has talked to them with such expertise.

Well, I use to teach school myself, and I would always say to these people: QUESTION QUESTION QUESTION!! There are lots of really bad teachers out there, lots of them. (A degree and a job does not make them good teachers, not to mention the fact that bad teachers are almost impossible to get rid of). Any teacher who does not listen well to parents, who does not want to work WITH them, is devaluing the whole process and purpose.. basically not putting the needs of the kids FIRST. Duh! (As you can see, I have some strong opinions on this...) Anyway, I digress.

I brought that up as an example of how people are conditioned to think certain professionals are all supposed to be experts on what they do; they are sometimes elevated to an above human level. Hello! These people are people themselves, not just the labels given to them. And no one is perfect, or can get along or understand everyone else in a way that is helpful. We do need to question.!

One of the problems is that most people who are going to see a doctor like this are very vulnerable to begin with, with a variety of fears and insecurities about our strengths weaknesses and needs. We often have trouble recognizing poor treatment or advocating for ourselves. It is easy to blame ourselves for things not working out, and so we stop, or stay in bad therapeutic relationships, or just add to our own guilt about our failures.

In addition, part of what many people feel about the subject is indeed based on ignorance or experience, or what the media presents in general. Think of what the term psychiatrist has meant to you since you were a child. For many it has been: psychiatrist = you are crazy.

Like so many things, generalizations are made about something that is so incredibly complex, and unfortunately because of that people don't get the relief and help they deserve.

[peejcrafter]

Originally Posted by PAYNE1

Yes, I'd like to hear more about what people are saying these days, too. I have to admit that I'm not happy with how the mental-health field has ended up, with people having to go to psychiatrists to get meds and to therapists for counseling. I am glad that more people are getting training, so that they can give meds, too.

Plus, I just don't find many psychiatrists that I feel much confidence in. I think that they sometimes get "bought" by Big Pharma, with all the pens, clocks, etc. that they get from reps, and they don't know that much about the drugs they are prescribing....Is that "anti-psychiatry"?

In my experience, only my experience I had abusive psychiatrists and just plain negative ones. My mental health professional says I'm doing much much better without a psychiatrist. This doesn't mean I don't believe in them. I do, but I am very careful, especially now that my nephew has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. His experience is probably much better now than mine was.

[racee]

there are always going ot be bad people in the world no matter what title they hold. unfortunately we can't pre screen and make sure they never end up in these positions.
i am not bringing up a religious subject here i am just using it as a reference, it's like hating all christians because of one bad axample they had in church and so forth. people have a right to their own opinion, the only time it isn't right is when they can't back up why they have certain views toward a certain subject, i'm a firn believer where if you don't know anything about what your talking about, keep your mouth shut and ask questions.

And if you have a good argument about the way you think than even if i disagree i will agree that you have a well thought out argument and i can see it from your point of view!

Mental disorders sit at the intersection of three distinct fields. They are biological conditions, since they correspond to changes in the body. They are also psychological conditions, since they are experienced cognitively and emotionally—they are part of our conscious life. And they have moral significance, since they involve us in matters such as personal agency and responsibility, social norms and values, and character, and these all vary as cultures vary. Read more http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critic...#ixzz19WSlCmJl

If the Anti-Psychiatry movement brings to light deficiencies in the mental health arena that are compelling, militates for correction and improves the lot of the afflicted, it has my approval. I emphasize my view is contingent. The antis must do more than tear down. To be credible, the antis must offer viable alternatives too.

For the casual reader of articles about the controversies in the mental field, there is much to be confused about. Despite the confusion, I am excited about the promise of scientific breakthroughs. Also encouraging is the postponement of the publication of the DSM-5 to allow for more comments and revisions and signalling a more transparent process.

Journalist Robert Whitaker in his blog talks about being invited to be the keynote speaker at the National Empowerment Center's Alternatives Conference. The National Empowerment Center is funded by Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA). SAMHSA was established in 1992 and directed by Congress to target effectively substance abuse and mental health services to the people most in need and to translate research in these areas more effectively and more rapidly into the general health care system.

SAMHSA withdrew Whitaker's invitation but subsequently relented and he was allowed to speak in a diminished capacity. Not only was Whitaker's role diminished, he was followed by a psychiatrist, Mark Ragins, picked by SAMHSA to rebut Whitaker's speech. Whitaker ends his blog thusly:

At such moments, I have to confess that I begin to lose all hope. It seems quite impossible that our society will ever be able to have a thoughtful, honest discussion about what is truly known about mental disorders, and about the merits of psychiatric medications. The forces lined up against such a discussion are simply too great. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...portunity-lost

Dr. Mark Ragins posted a comment to Whitaker's blog. Dr. Ragins wrote:

"My main disappointment, however, goes beyond Alternatives, and is that I don't think we'll ever have an honest, comprehensive scientific evaluation of your most startling assertion -- That medications induce a feedback response from the brain that worsens mental illnesses. I'd really like to know more about that, but I've lost all faith in our research system to inform me -- for the reasons you detail in your book.

"For me the last straw with drug companies was when I found out that they knew about diabetes and Zyprexa all along and intentionally hid it from doctors leading us to put people at risk without knowing it. That felt like a terrible betrayal to me. (though, of course, not in the same league as what the people who got diabetes or even died went through.) I don't know of any other field where the producers of something are so untrustworthy that the retailers regularly ban them from their offices). Although I'm sure that I've helped many people with medications, the drug companies are extraordinarily dangerous partners. I can't believe anything they say and no one else has enough money and independence to do a full scientific study instead of a journalistic study."

Whitaker adds:

And here is the source of Dr. Ragin's despair: He doesn't believe that a research enterprise even exists in the United States that can honestly investigate this question of whether psychiatric medications "induce a feedback response from the brain that worsens mental illnesses." The reason, he writes, is that research in this country is financed by pharmaceutical firms that can't be trusted to conduct honest science.

What, then, are we -- as a society -- to do about this?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...e-american-s-0

More reading for those so inclined:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/he...nami.html?_r=3
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/men...4/METHOD=print
http://www.themorningsun.com/article...mode=fullstory
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...pression-start
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...nst-depression
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/bipo.../10168/1529320
http://www.winmentalhealth.com/menta...ing_theory.php

I will leave you with this:

Science-Based Psychiatry

The mental health professions have made some stunning errors in recent decades, including the recovered memory craze, Satanic abuse confabulations, facilitated communication, multiple personality disorder with up to a hundred or more alters including animals, and Harvard psychiatrist John Mack’s gullible speculations about alien abductions. The good news is that science and reason have worked to identify these as errors and they have been largely avoided in mainstream practice.

Science is harder to apply to psychiatry than to other medical disciplines. Mental illness can’t be studied like pneumonia. We have no good animal models for most mental illnesses because animals don’t mentate the way humans do. We can’t do a blood test for depression like we do for diabetes. But we certainly can identify patients who are impaired by a recognizable constellation of symptoms, and we can test various treatments to see what relieves those constellations of symptoms. We can also look for underlying causes and ways to prevent illness.

Modern psychiatry, with its psychotropic medications and psychotherapies, is not as scientific or as effective as we would like, but it has undeniably saved lives and improved the quality of life of countless sufferers. Instead of bashing psychiatry for its faults, we should build on psychiatry’s successes and make it ever more science-based. Let’s put an end to psychiatry-bashing and stick to bashing specific practices that are not science-based and to bashing psychiatric malpractice like over-diagnosis and inappropriate prescribing. There is an excellent journal that tries to do exactly that: The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice It is far more credible than anything Szasz and Scientology have written. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=353

[Petunia111]

Psychiatry is more an art and practice, than a science, currently. Without being able to perform, and look at random and standardized testing to the brain, as of yet, people will be skeptical. Someday there will be a type of CBC, but for the brain processes. 'Til, then there will be loads of skeptics.

[Dark_Dreams]

I think there is soemthing to be said for the anti-people in some respects.
It is worth investigating what their arguments are and see if they have a strong basis and perhapse that info can be used in our lives.

World Health Organization:

Mental Health refers to a broad array of activities directly or indirectly related to the mental well-being component included in the WHO's definition of health: "A state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, and not merely the absence of disease". It is related to the promotion of well-being, the prevention of mental disorders, and the treatment and rehabilitation of people affected by mental disorders.
http://www.who.int/topics/mental_health/en/

Q: What is mental health?

A: Mental health is not just the absence of mental disorder. It is defined as a state of well-being in which every individual realizes his or her own potential, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to her or his community.
http://www.who.int/features/qa/62/en/index.html

Mental illness: http://www.healthyminds.org/Main-Top...l-Illness.aspx

One definition of psychology:

Psychology is the study of the mind and behavior. The discipline embraces all aspects of the human experience — from the functions of the brain to the actions of nations, from child development to care for the aged. In every conceivable setting from scientific research centers to mental health care services, "the understanding of behavior" is the enterprise of psychologists. http://www.apa.org/support/about/apa...gy.aspx#answer

Psychiatry: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/.../154/5/591.pdf

[MentalIllnessPolicy]

I think there is good and bad to be said of psychiatry and anti-psychiatry.

Psychiatry and anti-psychiatry

Two broad groups control the nation’s mental health agenda: Antipsychiatry and psychiatry. They are both right about some things, wrong about others.

Anti-psychiatry

Antipsychiatry groups deny mental illnesss exists or, if they admit something does exist, do not believe it is a medical issue The antipsychiatry agenda is most prominently led by a religious organization Scientology and certain government-funded “survivor” and “ex-patient” organizations. The most influential propnents of the movement are Ron Hubbard, Thomas Szasz and Peter Breggin based on book sales.

In Schizophrenia: the Sacred Symbol of Psychiatry, Thomas Szasz claims schizophrenia is merely a “myth.” In The Psychology of Freedom Peter Breggin argued that people with schizophrenia bring the symptoms on themselves because of “cowardice” or “failure of nerve.” The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR, founded by Scientology and Szasz and supported by Breggin) believes psychiatry is torture and should be outlawed.

Many believers in antipsychiatry rely on terms like “survivor” “ex-patient” and “people who have been labeled with mental illness”. Using these terms allows these groups to avoid acknowledging that mental illness exists, while still participating in the debate. Others use the terms also.

PSYCHIATRY

Psychiatry groups represent another extreme: they believe almost everything is a mental illness, no matter how normal it is. Their literature claims up to 50% of people have a “diagnosable” mental disorder during their life and the public should fund all of them. Psychiatry is led by the National Alliance on Mental Illness, Mental Health America, and—above all others—the American Psychiatric Association and pharmaceutical industry. They believe that almost every feeling (too sad, too happy, too removed, too involved, too bereaved) and social issue (bad marriage, poor grades, no job, love of internet) etc. are mental illnesses that need a psychiatrist, pscyhologist, new public policy, and/or an expensive new medicine.

COMMONALITIES

Interestingly, antipsychiatry and psychiatry share the same goal of expanding the definition of people with whatever it is they claim to represent. To both groups, casting a wide umbrella is the goal and narrowing focus is anathema.

In fact, it is often hard to tell them apart. The Mental Health Association claims to exist to help “all people" live mentally healthier lives while another group that promotes alternatives to psychiatry welcomes anyone who ever had “severe emotional distress which interferes with community participation.” Worried about your marriage? Your job? You’re in.

Together, I believe they’ve obliterated the meaning of mental "illness" because their actions encourage states to divert mental health dollars away from treating serious mental illness and towards, anything that lowers an individuals emotional distress. Medications and case managers for people with schizophrenia are out. Lowering everyone's stress is in.

They both seem to oppose letting people with serious mental illness go to the front of the lines.

They both support public service announcements that obscure the meaning of mental illness by only featuring the highest-functioning in their anti-stigma efforts. They do not allow psychotic homeless mentally ill people or those who have been jailed or permanently institutionalized to be seen in their commercials, literature and web sites.

Neither accepts any responsibility for advocating policies that forced massive amounts of people with serious mental illness into jails, prisons or suicide. They both claim to care. They both favor better services once incarcerated.

THE GOOD AND THE BAD OF ANTIPSYCHIATRY

Antipsychiatry has done a fearless job of identifying and publicizing abuses in the mental health system: especially of mistreatment. They have also done a good job at bringing the over-marketing of psychiatric medications (especially for children) to the public’s attention. Scientology and anti-psychiatry have done a brilliant job at confronting the APA, BigPharma and NAMI for medicalizing everything.

Unfortunately anti-psychiatry goes to what to me is a nonsensical next step: because some things psychiatrists claim are mental illnesses really aren’t— therefore mental illness doesn’t exist. As “proof” they point to the lack of bio-medical markers sufficiently developed to be used to diagnose serious mental illness. This is akin to saying colon cancer did not exist before the invention of the colonoscopy.

Because of their beliefs, antipsychiatry has tried to eliminate a patient's right to choose electroconvulsive therapy, antipsychotics, hospitalization and other treatments. They may pay lip-service to being medication-neutral, but that is disingenuous at best, harmful at worst. Another misguided belief among antipsychiatrists is that because some people were mistreated; the system of care should be eliminated. The “Baby-Bathwater” syndrome (soon to be in DSM?).

THE GOOD AND THE BAD OF PSYCHIATRY

Psychiatry has done a good, albeit incomplete job of coming up with medications for people with serious mental illness and providing patients and their families educational materials on how to deal with serious mental illness. They have done a stellar job at getting all mental illnesses covered under the insurance policies of corporations and are to be commended for their attempts to get more funding for research.

Unfortunately in their rush to medicalize “lived-experiences” they have, like antipsychiatry become a driving force behind the movement away from funding services, research and programs for serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia, and instead have encouraged funding mental everything.

Their acquiesence to the closing of psychiatric hospitals and refusal to vigorously work for aggressive reform of involuntary treatment laws, has caused massive incarceration, homelessness, needless rehospitalization and suicides by people with serious mental illness.

<strong>THE THIRD WAY</strong>

There is a desperate need for an organization that focuses on serious mental illness only. An organization that accepts the antipsychiatry mantra that we have medicalized everything, and their devotion to confronting abuse within the mental health system, but rejects their position that mental illness does not exist or is not medical in nature. An organization that embraces their holding a microscope to the medical/pharmacological/mental health complex; but understands the importance of having a good one.

An organization that accepts pro-psychiatry philosophy that mental illness exists, and medications can work, but rejects their philosophy that everything is a mental illness and deserves equal funding. An organization that recognizes there is <em>discrimination</em> against people with serious mental illness, but <em>no stigma</em> to being affected. (As Pesach Chaim a Brooklyn Based Heavy Metal Artist with a history of mental illness sings, "Stigma is a disease normal people have")

Some organizations fill parts of the gap.

Privately funded research organizations like NARSAD, IMHRO and The Stanley Medical Research Institute are looking for cures for serious mental illness, but they only focus on research. Likewise the Treatment Advocacy Center focuses only on assisted treatment and discrimination in Medicaid law.

A third organization is needed. One that brings together the best work
on serious mental illness no matter where it comes from.

(PS: Sorry for no links, but as a new poster, I am not allowed to post any)

[pachyderm]

It seems to me that in most fields of science before there is a really accepted foundation for understanding, that confusion reigns. If you have ever studied the history of physical sciences you will find theories about things that seem ludicrous now. It is really hard to comprehend new things! And I think that is in many ways the situation in psychiatry today: equivalent to the case of the physical sciences maybe 150 years ago. And when today scientists are investigating truly new physical phenomena, even they are confused until a clear picture emerges.

What to do in a situation such as this? Just keep plugging ahead, keep learning. What is the alternative?

[venusss]

I think it's a good counterbalance to the current psychiatry.

In fact... I do not trust psychiatry... at all.

[Travelinglady]

Wow! What a great discussion! I just wish I wasn't so doped up with psychiatric drugs, so I could follow it all! (Necessary evil currently, I suppose.) Thanks, particularly, to Byzantine for all the sources and information!

I do have to say this: I am really thankful that I live now, when some progress has been made in the mental-health world. I think back to the years prior to pioneers such as Dorothea Dix when life for mental patients was even worse. For example, when the idea prevailed that mental illness was always caused by demon possession, so the cure was to abuse the patient's body so much that the demons would leave. Horrors!

[venusss]

I think it's still pretty bad. Maybe the demonic possesion was actually preferable in some cases to "your brain is broken, sucka!".