[Kate8989]

I've been trying to find the 'right' therapist for me for a year now. I started getting bad anxiety last year, and was seeing a guy who I really liked. But then my insurance changed and couldn't see him anymore. Then I went to another guy, who I really didn't like, and now I'm onto the new guy. Today was my second visit with him.
He comes off as very assertive and controlling in a weird way.. very demanding with how and when he wants his money. But I tried to let that roll off my shoulders, not a big deal. But today seemed a little strange, and I'm wondering if this is normal.
He wanted to work on meditating to help clear my mind. About 25 minutes into my session, he wanted to begin. He stood up, dimmed the lights (understandable) and locked the door (weird). He had me close my eyes and walk me through normal meditation.. breathing in, breathing out.. ect. He reinforced that I should feel the breaths through my stomach and in my chest. When he had me open my eyes about 15 minutes later, he asked how I felt. Then he looked puzzled and said, 'I just.. I couldn't see the breaths through your stomach. I didn't see your stomach moving up and down. Can you stand up? Maybe it's because your shirt is baggy. Can you tuck your shirt in?' So I did. Then he said, 'Ok breathe in and out again. Hm.. I still can't see your stomach moving up and down. Do you mind if I touch your stomach?' I said okay. Even though I felt uncomfortable. He put his hand on my stomach and instructed me to breathe deep. He said, 'I still don't feel much contraction. You see how mine is moving up and down?? Put your hand on my stomach and feel it. Feel my back too. Do you feel the contraction now?'
I felt very uncomfortable. I did as he told me to do because I'm passive and quiet and I didn't really know where this was going. He then went over to unlock the door. We finished our session a little bit after.
Should I be concerned? When is it ever okay to put your hands on your patient?

[WarmFuzzySocks]

I find the locked door concerning. There’s really no reason for that.
I also find it odd that a therapist would be that touch-y with a brand new patient. If he incorporates some kind of touch into his work a responsible therapist would establish trust and good boundaries for both of you before doing that kind of work.

Bottom line is you were uncomfortable, and with good reason. In your shoes, I would not go back.

[stopdog]

I would not see a need to label it sexual harassment or anything - but I see no reason to hire one of those guys who makes you uncomfortable. I would not go back to this one.

[Argonautomobile]

Well that was ****ing weird. I'm sorry that happened to you. I wouldn't go back if it were me.

[LesFleursDuMal]

I wouldn’t call it sexual harassment either but if you feel uncomfortable you really don’t have to go back.

[Fernwehxx]

If my T put her hand on me, I would not mind because I trust her and such. But in your case, you feel its wrong, and thats a huge warning sign. The door locked is weird, and ibstructions for deep breathing should be enough. Is trust my feeling and not accept it.

[toomanycats]

He was trying to coach you to breath through your diaphragm and was being weird about it.

I don't think this is sexual harassment, I just think he's a ****** therapist. He's acting like he's teaching meditation, not like he's being a therapist.

I would find someone else. Maybe a female would be a good idea.

Trust your instincts. Personally, that would make me incredibly uncomfortable.... all of it. The locked door, the touching, even the dimming of the lights. When I have done meditation in therapy, we do it together. She talks me through it occasionally but her eyes are closed as well. In this situation, I don't think I would go back but, like I said, trust your instincts. If you're already uncomfortable, well, that's not a good way to build trust.

[Anne2.0]

This is typical for how people teach others to breathe in this way. So it doesn't seem odd to me. The locking of the door I can't explain except for the fact that some people are more jumpy when pulled out of a meditative state and he wanted to ensure nobody would barge in.

But the one way I have always found to talk to people who I have experienced as uncomfortable, especially with Ts. Tell him what your experience was. If he's trying to groom you to be a victim, he'll get all defensive and be weird about it. If he was really trying to teach you something and had no awareness it made you uncomfortable (and he did ask permission to touch you in a nonsexual way), he'll apologize and he'll also understand a little more about you (i.e. that you are passive and quiet). I think you will know from his response to your feelings whether you can work with him or not, at least at this juncture.

I've really benefited from mindfulness and if you are not opposed to it, I'd hate to see you eliminate a potentially good therapist in this vein just based on this experience. I also find it empowering to be able to talk about something the T did that I didn't like and it has been a skill that has helped me be more empowered with other people as well.

[growlycat]

A therapist locking the door especially without asking you first is strange. Touching you without asking first isn’t right either. I don’t know if it was meant as harassment but it does show poor judgement on your therapist’s part. What if you have an abuse history?? If it felt creepy it probably was.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by growlycat

Touching you without asking first isn’t right either.

The OP stated he asked permission first.

[maybeblue]

The locking the door would feel weird to me too. I also would not want to be touched by a male therapist on the second session. I think if you want to see him again or not it has to be up to you. But you might find it helpful to you to tell him how you felt...especially since you tend to be a little passive and go along with stuff even if it feels uncomfortable.

I once had a therapist who seemed very aggressive to me. He'd lean forward in his chair and it just felt threatening and angry. I put up with it for a long time and just got quieter. But then one day I just decided that it wasn't worth it anymore. Normally I would have just not gone back, but I was upset about it enough that I decided to tell him why. I called him...frankly because I was afraid to do it in person, and I told him how I felt. He was very apologetic actually which I didn't expect. I still decided not to go back, but being able to confront someone like that was huge for me. I think it really helped me feel better about myself.

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by Kate8989

I've been trying to find the 'right' therapist for me for a year now. I started getting bad anxiety last year, and was seeing a guy who I really liked. But then my insurance changed and couldn't see him anymore. Then I went to another guy, who I really didn't like, and now I'm onto the new guy. Today was my second visit with him.
He comes off as very assertive and controlling in a weird way.. very demanding with how and when he wants his money. But I tried to let that roll off my shoulders, not a big deal. But today seemed a little strange, and I'm wondering if this is normal.
He wanted to work on meditating to help clear my mind. About 25 minutes into my session, he wanted to begin. He stood up, dimmed the lights (understandable) and locked the door (weird). He had me close my eyes and walk me through normal meditation.. breathing in, breathing out.. ect. He reinforced that I should feel the breaths through my stomach and in my chest. When he had me open my eyes about 15 minutes later, he asked how I felt. Then he looked puzzled and said, 'I just.. I couldn't see the breaths through your stomach. I didn't see your stomach moving up and down. Can you stand up? Maybe it's because your shirt is baggy. Can you tuck your shirt in?' So I did. Then he said, 'Ok breathe in and out again. Hm.. I still can't see your stomach moving up and down. Do you mind if I touch your stomach?' I said okay. Even though I felt uncomfortable. He put his hand on my stomach and instructed me to breathe deep. He said, 'I still don't feel much contraction. You see how mine is moving up and down?? Put your hand on my stomach and feel it. Feel my back too. Do you feel the contraction now?'
I felt very uncomfortable. I did as he told me to do because I'm passive and quiet and I didn't really know where this was going. He then went over to unlock the door. We finished our session a little bit after.
Should I be concerned? When is it ever okay to put your hands on your patient?

I would not feel good or comfortable about any of this, including being demanding about how money is handled. Regardless of his intent, you are not at ease and he's not picking up on that. A door does not need to be locked for meditation. A sign on the outside will do and is, in fact, better because a sign will prevent someone from trying to open the door and disturbing you. A closed, locked door can still have it's handle giggled and make noise, so it doesn't preserve your peace and quiet. Also...it's just alarming to me that a man would lock a door like that.

Not only that...but wth is it to him if he can't see you breathing? Doesn't he trust your own reporting? If he's so uncertain, and it bothers him, he can ask you to put your hand on your own stomach to feel the rise and fall.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by growlycat

If it felt creepy it probably was.

This. So much this.

[SalingerEsme]

I only have my own T to go by but he would never lock the door, and he is very aware of not making female patients uncomfortable . It seems like you have that little voice telling you the scenario wasnt cool or trespassed some normal boundary even if very slightly. I would bail out.

I would consider this extremely inappropriate and unsafe. As you describe it here, I think it is assault. Touch in therapy should be extremely carefully navigated with explicit boundaries in place. It's hard to imagine how locking your only way out of the room could be considered safe practice. The idea of it frightens me. I hope you are ok.

[AllHeart]

I don't think it's sexual harassment, but, what happened was definitely not right. He locked the door. He specifically got up and locked the door. And then, touch occurred. No therapist in their right mind would allow that for their own protection as well as the client's. That's just not safe, ethical practice. I think it outright dangerous myself.

Honestly, the way this played out, it sounds like this t could have been testing you to see how you would comply to his requests. First, tuck in your shirt, then, can I touch your stomach...now, touch mine. So what might he ask for next week? Maybe nothing. But, the fact that this man locked the door tells me his intentions are not good. I would not take the risk of ignoring your instincts. What happened to you leaves me sick to my stomach. I'm sorry that you experienced this.

[feralkittymom]

I don't think this needs a label. All I can say is that I've experienced relaxation hypnosis with my former T and it didn't involve anything that you've related here. I've also worked with a few voice coaches, which involves a lot of work with breath control, and none of them worked in this way either. As ruh roh mentioned, the benefit to meditative work isn't about what he can or can't detect: he should be teaching you how to detect your own breathing. And the locked door--I can't even begin to rationalize that.

[junkDNA]

This is concerning to me. Stay aware and leave if you feel uncomfortable

Leaving might not be so easy when the door has been locked by someone.

[LonesomeTonight]

I'd feel uncomfortable with the door-locking part... I've done deep breathing exercises in yoga classes numerous times and am pretty sure the instructor never touched anyone's stomach...(and in that situation, it's not like you're alone with the instructor, either...) It's easy enough to explain how it's done and what it should feel like that should not necessitate touching the client/practitioner or having the client touch the T/instructor...

[healinginprogress]

It sounds like in your gut you know it's creepy. I wouldn't go back, also. Really, I'm just going to echo everyone else.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I've also worked with a few voice coaches, which involves a lot of work with breath control, and none of them worked in this way either.

Likewise my vocal teacher spent a lot of time explaining how I engage my muscles for singing, but without touching me. One time, when I'd known her a long time, she invited me to touch under and behind her ribs to show me the muscle resistance and engagement. As a former opera singer, these muscles were far more developed than you'd find on a beginner singer.

What OP describes seems opposite of a relaxing meditation lesson. I'd think of a cartoon where the teacher is screaming at her students to RELAX DAMMIT!!! If it feels uncomfortable, intrusive or counterproductive you don't have to suffer it no matter what his intention.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by growlycat

A therapist locking the door especially without asking you first is strange. Touching you without asking first isn’t right either. I don’t know if it was meant as harassment but it does show poor judgement on your therapist’s part. What if you have an abuse history?? If it felt creepy it probably was.

He did ask first.

[ruh roh]

It was the progression. If he'd locked the door and asked, can we touch each other? that would have stood out as totally not okay. But it was locking the door, and then a series of requests posed as asking, leading up to touching him.