Therapist does therapy sessions on phone while driving

Well; I actually felt that she was lacking in empathy. I didn't feel like she understood me during that call. But then again, it's not the first time she has failed that way. "I understand what you're saying" - that is not empathy. I needed emotional feedback, which she failed to provide. "I don't know what else you want me to say." So in this sense, it wasn't adequate. But I think this inadequacy was independent of her being behind the wheel.

I wouldn't be okay with that either. A good therapist is going to feel emotion for their client, though they try not to show it. Deep emotions can effect driving. Plus as others have said, all the attention should be on the client.

Eeek!

I live in the corn and soybean fields. So I do sometimes take calls (bluetooth thru car radio). But not when headed your direction, even though it is legal in Illinois.

I think she's inadequate on at least a few fronts. She sounds pretty self-absorbed to me.

Adequate is not good enough when you have to pay.

In addition to all the other problems this situation presents, your t isn't considering the possible implications this could bring to the client. Worry for her safety as well as others on the road, worry because she isn't fully listening, guilty for her getting into an accident because she was distracted by your "session," resentful that you now pay her to drive home/run errands, and so on.

If she's going to chalk these calls up as being therapy, she needs to be the therapist, without question.

I told her I didn't want to pay if I do not have her full attention. She said that we shouldn't be doing this if I'm not going to pay. She said that it sounded like I needed to talk, and because this was her only availability today, she offered it. I feel that I'm partly responsible for this. It is not her fault. She was trying to help.

Hopefully she doesnt have road rage....

'...and when I was six, my mother....'

'YOU SON OF A.... YOU CUT ME OFF!!! Sorry, dear, you were saying? '

Not your fault at all. It’s nice of her to offer the help. She wasn’t charging you before. Wonder why she chose this time to charge you not just for the driving part but also because you asked for a reduced rate recently. I at least hope you didn’t have to pay to talk about her triggering room.

@AllHeart: I actually said that I didn't want to pay for administrative issues that came up on her side. She was alright with me not paying for those administrative issues. I told her to get the money from the new provost who came up with the new policy that she cannot work for another company. But she isn't alright with me not paying if it is triggering and we talk about all the stuff that it brings up in me. She says that it is all content for therapy. She thinks that unexpected things can come up in both her life and my life. And it is all fair game for content in therapy. Basically, she thinks they are fitting contents to work through and talk about in therapy. She is also psychodynamic. We don't do analysis; we do therapy. But her background is in psychoanalytic training. On the other hand, a CBT therapist might charge, too, and try to work through those triggers. Maybe they see it as an opportunity.

Yeah, back in the day, I "managed" to drive while intoxicated. Doesn't make it right. She could not possibly be 100% with you.
(I no longer drink.)

Yeah, I don't think "adequately present" would be enough for me for a paid therapy session. I'm trying to think of what the equivalent would be like for a paid in-person session...maybe if they were trying to half-watch a sporting event on TV at the same time or skimming the headlines in a newspaper/news app while the client talked.

I have talked to my marriage counselor on the phone a few times when he was driving (and maybe once to my ex-T), but I was not charged for any of that time--he was just trying to fit in a call where he could because I was upset about something that had happened in session. He definitely seemed less "present" than when we've had phone calls when he hasn't been in the car--plus he had to talk more loudly to get above the road noise, so I couldn't tell as much from tone of voice as I normally could. I definitely wouldn't pay for that, unless maybe it was a crisis situation and I felt like it was my only option.

Did you have a full-on session with your marriage counselor when he was driving or was it a brief phone call? She seems to think that if it's a full-on 45 or 50 minute session, I have to pay for it. But I think that quality to a patient is more important than the quantity or length of the conversation with the therapist. She thinks that she did me a favor by offering her only available time to talk on that day. She said that because it had helped in the past, she offered it again.

See, I was torn. On the one hand, I needed to talk to her. On the other hand, I knew that it wasn't going to be good for either one of us. For one, her safety. Secondly, I'm not getting her full, undivided attention. So that's why I do take some responsibility for what happened.

I don't know. A lot of things are happening in our therapeutic relationship. You can read my other thread about a change in her leaving the clinic and our recent talk about money. I texted her to confirm our session today, but she hasn't even responded. She would usually have responded by this hour.

All of this is making me lose faith in therapy. But I guess it isn't surprising. I have had other unprofessional therapists in the past who let their personal feelings get in the way. They say to keep on looking for a therapist who fits you, but they always end up disappointing and doing more harm than good.

Good morning! Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with the timing and circumstance for starting to charge you. I know this therapy stuff can get frustrating. I hope the situation gets easier for you soon. And, GREAT for you for not paying for admin issues!

It was probably about a half hour (he has a long commute and was on his way home from the office), but he doesn't charge for outside contact, which is what this was. My current individual T *does* charge for outside contact taking longer than 15 minutes, so I imagine he would have charged for something like this--but I also suspect he wouldn't be willing to talk while he was driving, since he prefers meeting clients in person whenever possible (even if just for an extra half session)--he seems to put lots of emphasis on making sure clients have his undivided attention (part of why he charges for longer e-mails, too), so I think he'd realize it wouldn't be undivided in the car.

Out of curiosity, would she not charge you if it was shorter, like a 20-minute phone call? If so, maybe you could have gone with an option like that then. I agree with you that quality is more important than quantity...

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult experience with this therapist, between this and the changes with her leaving the clinic. Would you consider trying someone different? So far, I've been having a really good experience with my current T, who I started seeing about 4 months ago. (Though of course I worry he's going to disappoint or hurt me because of some past experiences, including with MC...) Maybe try someone else just for a few sessions, see how you feel? My initial intent with current T was to see him for a limited period of time--like a couple months max--to help me deal with some of the MC stuff, then go back to my ex-T. But then I realized how much more helpful this T was being compared to ex-T, so I just decided to stay with him. So I think it's worth a shot--and I'd be up front with someone new, within the first few sessions--about your past experiences with T's, see how they respond.

I now think one of the most important things to look for is strong, clear boundaries. And also that a T is practicing self-care, like has a good work/life balance. Even better if they're in supervision, but I think that's less common here in US for T's in private practice...

I'm a little confused.

On the one hand, I hate the idea of a therapist providing a therapy session from their car, while driving. Even if they did it for free. Everyone else has already said it, but there are so many issues here - their safety, others' safety, their inability to focus 100% on the client, privacy issues (I've noticed some people on phone calls in their cars, in parking lots, accidentally *project* the call out to the world - I can hear the call, or at least one side of it, from the parking lot. Not an issue if their on a highway driving, but if she's somewhere quiet and it's projecting *you* - that freaks me out just thinking about it!)

But - it sounds like, from your later posts, that this might be a one-off thing? Like, you need an extra session, but this is the only way she can fit you in?

When you first posted, I thought it was more about a quick call between sessions to check in, but is it actually a full 45+ minutes?

Here's an issue... while she shouldn't be doing full sessions from her car, the other side of that is, if she spends 45+ minutes talking to you - that's a significant amount of time, and she deserves to be paid for it. So, I can understand and empathize, with her point.

And I think she might be trying to be helpful, as you said, by offering the only time she has available - which is while she's driving.

But, I don't think I'd be comfortable with it either.

It sounds like you guys maybe aren't seeing eye to eye on other issues? Have you thought about looking for someone else? Has she worked with you - either to determine if you need to add an actual, real, in-person second session to the schedule, or to help you develop resources to get through the week without needing a second session?

Good luck...

--"It's not her fault. She was trying to help."--

No, I'm sorry, I am not buying this. It *is* her fault. If she did not have availability, she did not have availability. She should have told you she could not meet with you. That is the bottom line. She should not be talking to clients as she zooms down the highway--there is no possible way a therapist could be appropriately emotionally present, and there is no way you should be expected to pay for that. I mean, where does this end, could she do a therapy session while eating dinner? Taking a bath?

You weren't happy about a car session to begin with, but you felt you "needed" it, so you accepted crappy treatment. Then, after the fact, you are complaining about being billed for it. You seem willing to settle for second-best, though it leaves you feeling resentful, and she seems willing to give it to you, while presenting it as her acting in your interests. That strikes me as a really messed up dynamic.

This is all so ridiculous, unsafe, dangerous, and downright unprofessional. No one can provide therapy while multitasking no matter what they tell you.

Unprofessional and potentially unsafe

In the UK a new law has just come in so if you touch a phone screen at all while driving, even just once say to put a call on speakerphone, you are breaking the law and you get a lot of points on your licence, and if you are a new driver you lose your licence altogether. And I agree with this - it's proven to be unsafe to speak on the phone at the same time as driving, even on hands-free. You're not giving your full concentration to the road, and that is dangerous.

So needless to say, I think your T's suggestion is a very bad one, and amazingly bad that she would want to charge for it!

I don't see the idea of safe or not being the problem here. It doesn't matter, in my opinion, about the therapist and whether the the therapist is engaging in safe behavior or not. The therapist could be riding a bike, or walking the dog, or walking through a museum - they are still not paying attention to the client for time the client is paying for. Whether the activity is safe or not is the therapist's problem - not the client's.

Yes, I agree. Probably could have added- it's not safe because you are not giving your full attention to one thing, and that's an unacceptable way of doing therapy IMO.