Couch 161: The Hexagonal Pyramidal Couch

I wish your T gave you out of session contact, too, BCM.

Yes, I have a similar part - the one I refer to as the older boy. He is very detached, cuts off emotions, and also is my angry/violent protector. For me, he is rarely angry at myself in that way - he is usually angry at others when he feels things are not fair, not just.

He'll also stand in the way of other parts coming to the surface if he feels there is something at risk. The later half of 2017, it was his turn to connect with T and learn to trust T. This was not a conscious decision, just where the path was going. With my transference in hand/mind, he used the reality of the situation as a weapon to not connect to T. "T is not my mommy, I am not a child". These are reality and more importantly to him truths. He used these facts as a weapon against the other parts, keeping them from connecting to T in the way they had been connecting. It took a long time and the right set of circumstances for him to let go of those truths and trust T as ... no so much mommy but in a way that the other parts could have mommy back.

As I wrote in my in session post a few weeks ago, I have a new theory/belief system on the concept of coping mechanisms. This has stemmed from my T repeatedly telling me to keep doing the best I can to keep myself in the best shape at any given moment. From that statement, I have concluded that all behaviors are coping mechanisms none are good or bad, healthy or unhealthy.. they just are and some are safer than others at any given moment.

My use of PC as a coping mechanism, when used extensively while I am at work can be just as risky as common SH activities. Which is really safer, a 5 min physical action that allows me relief and able to return to my day or 5 hours on PC and not doing any work for the day?

I like your theory! Also, I prefer 5 min of SH than say...being all foggy at work for hours

I agree with there being a need to maintain an illusion of types in order for my process to work; for the type of therapy I am doing. Whenever that illusion is broken or intruded on by reality, my therapy tends to stall some or go in a slightly different direction for a little while (long while). Eventually, I have to make the decision to believe again to get back on the path that I have found most helpful. These side journeys are not necessarily a waste of time, they are just different and tend to have a different focus. This last one was a long one for me and I am not sure that it has completely passed as my health continues to be a limiting factor on returning to the activities that have fed the relationship up to this point.

You can use that one on your T next time. Of course we want to choose the safest one at the given moment to alleviate our stresses and allow us to return to a functioning state as quickly as possible. We know from experience what those might be for us.

More things in our toolbox is always helpful.

i am always high when go to the T, afraid to go sober. i talk much when high very little if sober. just drowning in depression

She drew your family tree before your session?

Umm...that's impressive (memory + bothers enough to do it).

I shall remain mum on my sheer and utter inability to communicate with Blondie about my family history in any way that doesn't end up with me......

She did draw a family tree on her pad and take notes the previous session.

Well, but remember Blondie would happily abandon her family at the drop of a hat, because she's not from a country that starts with "I."

Report, art!

Hi couch. H is feeling a lot better this morning, his temp is finally back to normal, I took another day off work cuz it was still 103 f late yesterday and they said it shouldn't be. They added a 2nd IV antibiotic last night so I think that's helped a lot. Dr is due to be here soon. He's eating breakfast right now and said that he feels so much better than when he got here. I am greatly relieved!

So glad to hear your H is feeling better, Art!

Dr was just here said the cat scan showed infection in his colon too so that's the other antibiotic. Said h will likely be here til Friday. A gastroenterologist will be coming in today too. Then he answered his cell and left mid-talking to us so who know if he'll come back.

I have a session next Tuesday. Fits in with R's definition of 'as soon as possible', without my explicitly asking for it. I am relieved. I am beyond relieved.

Pondering a few things egarding last night's phone call with MC--one about H and two about MC. The phone call was with both H and me, using my cell's speakerphone.

H question first: H was playing a video game on his computer during the whole call. Would this bother anyone else? I know he probably figured it was just between me and MC (MC had suggested all 3 of us be on call), but I'd also talked to H like a half hour beforehand and asked him to chime in on occasion, especially regarding something he'd said in our conversation about MC last week--how he was thinking during Friday's session that he wished MC had shown more humanity toward me instead of just being in therapist mode. I still had to basically whisper to him what I wanted him to say during the call. Yeah, it went much longer than we'd expected it to, but he was playing the video game from the very start.

MC question 1: The topic of the "love" e-mail from December came up. MC insisted during the call that, even though I'd sent an e-mail afterward clarifying that it was platonic, he still thought it was romantic love. And he also said he thought the same after the phone call from December, when I'd reiterated that it was platonic. So essentially, our marriage counselor, on a call with both me and H, was insisting that what I'd expressed to him was romantic love--and that it was a big part of why he'd wanted to pull back on contact. Is that...appropriate? I mean, it's one thing if I'm sitting in session with my individual T and he's pressing the topic. But for our marriage counselor to press it, basically like, "I know you feel romantic love for me"--that's weird, right?

MC question 2: MC told me that some stuff I'd said in past month or so had hurt him (like my being critical of things he's done). And that he'd felt frustrated with me on multiple occasions recently. I said I thought that therapists were just supposed to deal with feelings like that on their own rather than sharing them with clients. MC seemed to disagree (he has said in the past that I shouldn't worry about his feelings...). Should therapists be sharing feelings like that with their clients? Also consider that in this case...it's my marriage counselor...

Just trying to parse some stuff from the call--basically having a mix of "MC still cares about me" and "MC was kind of being a jerk" and "Much of this is coming from countertransference stuff, MC's issues, not so much me or something I did." Which...actually probably is a good balance to have...

(((LT))) that sounds like it was a very confusing conversation. I'm sorry stuff got so weird w your MC and hope you are able to find some peace over it all.

Thanks, Art It's just hard because it's like I got answers to some things, but then it just opened up other questions. "Weird" is a good way to put it. I feel like he lacks the self-awareness and ability to examine himself critically to fully understand his role in all of this...He did offer some seemingly genuine apologies last night, which helped, but I don't think he'll ever really "get it."

Glad I made the appointment to see T tomorrow...(also saw him Monday).

LT, I still think Dr. T is the elephant in the room here. MC got used to being this cherished figure in your life, and he played out this intense thing that looked like therapy but maybe mostly wasn't (or wasn't very good therapy, at any rate). Now you're getting better therapy, you're getting a healthier perspective, some of that energy is getting shifted away from MC (the adoration well is drying up!), and what's left is a sort of messy thing that isn't making MC feel so wonderful anymore. I don't think you would have pushed back so hard on some things that didn't feel so good (like the tap room thing) before Dr. T. I can see where MC started to change his tune once you started feeling able to defend yourself, rather than always automatically blaming yourself.

Is H being a clod? Yeah, maybe. I would be frustrated if my spouse and I were supposed to do something together and she was only half paying attention. But I imagine H is beyond befuddled by the situation, and assumes (probably accurately) that his minimal presence was only necessary to keep up the pretense that this is still marriage counseling. I think H mostly disengaged from this situation a long time ago.

Is MC being a bad therapist? Yeah, probably. He stopped wanting to play when it stopped being fun for him. That's not what it means to do therapy. You're spot-on about him needing to work out his emotional needs elsewhere and not be so impulsively transparent with you. I'm just glad you're starting to see that this isn't fair or healthy situation for you and that you're starting to back away from it.

LT--It sounds like a painful conversation. But on your questions:

On H: Like EM said, yeah, sure he might be being a clod. But he probably did see his role more as a chaperone than anything else. I'd also be inclined to give him a pass: this whole multi-year saga with MC has certainly had a profound effect on you, but it's not like H has been a mere bystander. He's been affected too. And whether or not he lets on (I imagine he doesn't), I would not be surprised to learn he's hurting too. I certainly would be if I saw my spouse paying so much attention to another person (even with just platonic love), even if I were totally confident in my spouse's love.

This is not to call you a bad wife or blame you for anything, but the whole thing with MC has consequences for others as well besides you two. So yes, I think that may well be why H has withdrawn, to protect himself. Maybe he shouldn't, but all this is for another marriage counselor to help you with.

On MC1: I know you believe the transference is mainly paternal/platonic. But there are also obvious erotic/romantic elements, as you've observed yourself. None of us sees you or knows you as well as MC does, so I assume he has his reasons for thinking it was romantic love. I don't know if you talked about his reasons, but if were you I'd be interested to know why he thought that, because it would help me look at the situation from both perspectives. Even if it's not romantic love, the way it was expressed made him uncomfortable for some reason. Why?

As for saying it in front of H, I don't see why he shouldn't have. I would imagine it's crossed H's mind too. And you guys are a unit when you see MC.

On MC2: totally, he should be keeping himself out of it and owning his mistakes. No, he shouldn't be saying you hurt him, especially not to someone who feels easily guilty. Yes, he should show more self-awareness (though that's true of pretty much everyone on the planet).

None of this is meant to be unsupportive, so I apologize if it hits you the wrong way. I kind of think the whole situation is really no one's fault, it's just a combination of unfortunate factors that created a tragedy.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, EM. I think you're right about this. I was trying to figure out...was I ready to try breaking away from MC, and that's why I switched to Dr. T? Or is it that Dr. T is making me feel more empowered, validating me, etc., which is enabling me to stand up to MC and look at what's going on with him from a different perspective? Probably a combination of both... Part of me thinks "If only I'd switched to Dr. T a couple years ago...I could have avoided much of this." But I also think maybe I wasn't ready then...

But yeah, it's like MC has me in this particular role in his mind. The adoring patient who is dependent on him and idealizes him and also cares about him, who takes his word as gospel. He knows how to act toward that person. And that person poses no threat to him. He has no need to examine himself--he can put it all on me--stuff from my past, my parents, etc. But now I'm standing up to him and questioning things and being critical--he's threatened in a way. And he doesn't know how to act toward me now.

And--I know I'll never know the answer to this--but this part of me wonders if he could possibly have some sort of feelings for me--whether attraction, romantic, whatever--and that's why he reacted so strongly to my love e-mail. And why he just assumed it was romantic. Some of how he's acted toward me in the past has made me wonder this as well (like kinda flirtatious things, seeming different toward me when H wasn't in the room, like the individual sessions, if H went to the bathroom, if we ran into each other in the waiting room while I was there for ex-T or ex-p-doc--mostly while his wife was still alive)... Again, I'll never know the answer--and it's not like it would help me if I did know. It wouldn't excuse anything he's done...

I think you're probably right on much of this...and I completely understand his befuddlement. I appreciate his willingness to both be on the call last night and to attend sessions to help me deal with this, even if he doesn't understand what it's about. His support means a lot...

Thanks, EM. I think being a therapist fulfills a need for him. Partly the helping people, yes, but maybe also the aspect of being adored. I'm no longer feeding that need in the same way, so he acts differently toward me.

You make some really good points here. Thanks for giving me that perspective. I imagine my T would say something similar if I brought this up to him. Also, when I'd mentioned to H the possibility of meeting with both MC and T together, he said, "It's like you'd be going to marriage counseling with your marriage counselor." Which suggests it is affecting him...

Yeah...I feel like we should see a different one, even just for a brief period, but when I brought that up with H a few weeks ago, he said he wanted a 6-month break (from marriage counseling) after we stop seeing MC. But I feel in a way we need marriage counseling to deal with our marriage counseling...

What he'd told me initially was that it was the way the e-mail was written. Admittedly, when T read the e-mail, he said it sounded exactly like a love letter to him, how all that was missing was "Let's run away together!" I was like, "Oh ****" at that. I think maybe I was afraid to pursue further why he thought it was romantic love--if he gave all kind of "evidence" while talking to me and H, that might have made it worse. Like H might have started thinking differently. It's the sort of thing that maybe I would have asked him about if it was just me talking to him on the call...

Yeah, when he brought it up the first time in session, he just alluded to it, and I knew what he meant. He started mentioning it the next session in the same vague way, and I was like, "You can just say it, I've shown H the e-mail exchange." He verified that I had before continuing. So, I guess, in a way, MC was sort of trying to cover for me at first. But you're right, if it's already out in the open, no need to avoid saying it in front of H. I think it was just more his insistence about it on the call, how no matter what I'd said before, he still thought it was romantic love...

That's a good point, since he knows I tend to feel guilty and blame myself for things... Though maybe in a way, he wanted me to feel bad about it? I don't know...

I took it as being supportive, thanks. It helps to get other perspectives on things. In terms of fault, I got a bit hung up on that because at first, I kept thinking "If only I hadn't sent that e-mail, then the text that led to him calling back in December, everything would be OK." But...things wouldn't be OK because they haven't been OK for a long time. As someone put it, if it wasn't that e-mail, it would have been something else. The relationship had gotten messy on multiple levels--it was bound to blow up at some point (and has already had a few minor explosions...)

'Ello Couch What have I missed?

1. It would not bother me. Also, from what I have seen, he has not really been much a part of it for a while. Finally, this phone call was to calm you down - not him. I find it curious that you decided to tell your husband what to say -that strikes me as being a bit off. Why do feel the need to make your husband say things?

2. No -this does not seem odd to me. I don't see your interactions with him as all paternal - I would consider some to be erotic/romantic from how I read what was reported here.

3. You appeared to like it when he shared stuff with you - now that it is less flattering/positive = you do not. You have not treated this guy like a marriage counselor in a long time from what I have seen. Is it his responsibility to hold a line - probably. But you liked it until you did not. And when he tried holding even a minimal line - you searched out info and told him about it. I don't see what he said as off in this situation.

Art - glad things are getting better for your husband

Even if it is romantic love, isn't it part of his job to deal with it? He seems to be really hung up on the nature of your love for him. He should deal with his own feelings on his own time and treat whatever love you feel for him as the transference that it is. I'm sorry you have all this turmoil to deal with. I'm glad you have T to help you through this.