[justbreathe1994]

I don’t know if I feel like going into the specifics at the moment, so I’m going to purposefully keep this post/question pretty general. But I’m curious on all of your thoughts - do you think individuals with attatchment struggles/traumas will forever have their attachment style? Like, for example, if a child didn’t get what they needed at a young age and therefore developed insecure attachments with their caregivers, do you think they can relearn how to feel close to people and depend on them as an adult? If so, what does it take?

My T says I’m not permanently damaged, but I feel like I am.

I guess I went into more detail than I though I was going to.

[DP_2017]

I think so yes... and I don't think therapy helps when you get attached, because in the end, you only end up hurt, so the cycle begins again

[MoxieDoxie]

I have had at least 3 years of therapy but I feel my attachment issues have never changed, never will and am permanently damaged.

I am shocked a therapist said that to you though.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

I have had at least 3 years of therapy but I feel my attachment issues have never changed, never will and am permanently damaged.

I am shocked a therapist said that to you though.

Why are you shocked?

[kecanoe]

My Ts say that I will change. That doesn't seem shocking.

I have changed in ways that I never thought I would, so maybe attachment will change also. I would not be able to confidently say that attachment styles can change, though.

Mine have changed. For the better.

I think insecure attachment styles can be changed. I posted on a recent thread called, "Does Your Therapist Purposely Frustrate You." I am quoting some of my response on your thread:

"When I did attachment therapy, my therapist said that it was her responsibility to meet my unmet needs and wants as much as possible. She thinks this is true for all her clients as long as she does not sacrifice herself or her family. She is somewhat of a lone wolf in believing that adult unmet attachment needs have to be satisfied if people with insecure attachment styles want to move to a more secure attachment style. She considers this to be true whether you are one or one hundred. These childhood needs can be met in other ways and through different relationships, but most people limp along through life only surviving.

My adult life was unmanageable and childhood torturous because my parents emotionally frustrated me. They were kind parents but did not know how to fulfill my infant/child needs. My therapist believed as the perfect mother reacts to her baby when the baby cries. There are times when the mother cannot meet the babies needs right away, so the baby learns to settle herself. That is where the frustration, aka torture for me came in and I had to self-soothe. In the beginning, it was rough because I felt abandoned, too much, hated by her - my past history of not having my needs met. It was her consistency in responding when she could (quite often in my case) allowed me to trust that she would respond, and my ability to self-soothe grew over time.

I thought this would take the rest of my life. She said we could do it in 18-24 months. Her techniques are not those of 1 -2 times/week talk therapy. She takes one or two attachment clients at a time and is willing to be that good enough parent till the client can do it for themselves."

In trauma therapy books I've read, they talk about eventually transforming one's insecure attachment style to a "earned secure attachment style".

One such book is "Healing The Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher.

Some links on the web: https://www.thespruce.com/marriage-i...-style-2303303

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ur-personality

[Thalassophile]

It is my understanding that it is not permanent and that attachment to a good therapist works in the way that you move from an insecure attachment in childhood to a secure attachment (secure base) from which to explore the world. Not explaining it very well but I think it can be fixed somewhat with the right therapist.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by QuietMind

In trauma therapy books I've read, they talk about eventually transforming one's insecure attachment style to a "earned secure attachment style".

One such book is "Healing The Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher.

Some links on the web: https://www.thespruce.com/marriage-i...-style-2303303

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ur-personality

Wow, I haven’t read the first one yet but that second article was incredibly helpful. I am going to show it to my T. Thanks!

[satsuma]

I think that schema therapy deals directly with these attachment type problems as well. And for me, things are hugely better now compared to before.

But having said that , there are still some thing that are potentially upsetting for me which other people wouldn't find upsetting at all, and I feel like this is something I need to accept about myself. My life has got hugely easier, but I don't feel as though all the past problems have been wiped away. Sometimes I get frustrated thinking "I've been going to therapy for x years, but I have still got upset about this". I think therapy has helped also for me to accept my occasional upsets and not interpret them as a sign of being a bad person.

Originally Posted by justbreathe1994

I don’t know if I feel like going into the specifics at the moment, so I’m going to purposefully keep this post/question pretty general. But I’m curious on all of your thoughts - do you think individuals with attatchment struggles/traumas will forever have their attachment style? Like, for example, if a child didn’t get what they needed at a young age and therefore developed insecure attachments with their caregivers, do you think they can relearn how to feel close to people and depend on them as an adult? If so, what does it take?

My T says I’m not permanently damaged, but I feel like I am.

I guess I went into more detail than I though I was going to.

You never stop growing. It's, tiny steps, but growth continues giving that there's a, trustworthy other.

[AnnaBegins]

Originally Posted by QuietMind

In trauma therapy books I've read, they talk about eventually transforming one's insecure attachment style to a "earned secure attachment style".

One such book is "Healing The Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher.

Some links on the web: https://www.thespruce.com/marriage-i...-style-2303303

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ur-personality

That second article was extremely well written and insightful.

I think that it's possible to get better regardless of the degree of attachment damage you have, but I also think that it's only possible with the right therapist. I think that a lot of therapists that treat this go into it with the best of intentions but get burned out if the damage is inconceivably (to them) bad. And when that happens, I think they make it worse when they inevitably pull back and flip the script and everything the client has come to depend on as being stable and consistent and real is "taken away". I understand self preservation and all that but...in this case, it potentially leaves the client more damaged than they were before seeking help.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by QuietMind

In trauma therapy books I've read, they talk about eventually transforming one's insecure attachment style to a "earned secure attachment style".

One such book is "Healing The Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher.

Some links on the web: https://www.thespruce.com/marriage-i...-style-2303303

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ur-personality

Ive started reading the janina fisher book. Just wow.

I have improved my attachment challenges since my childhood/adolescene into my 30's and 40's (now) very significantly. Never used therapy for it, in fact I refused using therapy in that way as I do not believe it models normal relationships well. I definitely started out as avoidant, more the dismissive kind, but with choosing my everyday life mates and interactions well, there has been very significant changes and improvements. Now I consider my attachment style mostly secure, with some avoidant streaks especially when I am stressed and when old negative patterns relapse, but mostly quite effortlessly secure and easy with a broad variety of people. Again, in my case, I think therapy would have never taken me here - real life relationships and self-awareness gained via experience has, and continues to do so.

I guess maybe if I had gotten into therapy very young, with a good T, it would have helped to kick-start the improvements earlier. I imagine that I would have gone through some of the same transferences in that way, but most likely still a lot of trial and error, and it would have costed me a lot of money vs. simply living my life.

[Amyjay]

I love the links to articles and books that have been posted here.
I think a person can develop a secure attachment style in adulthood after having insecure or disorganized attachment in childhood. But I think you can't undo the attachment trauma damage. The lack of secure attachment in childhood affects normal development and if normal development doesn't occur at the crucial stages in childhood it affects all development that comes after it.
Like with me I had disorganized attachment with my father and dismissive attachment with my mother. I did not feel loved by anyone or lovable. So I did not have friends as a child. Not having friends affected my social development. In teenage years I did not have boyfriends because I felt disgusting evil shameful and gross. I didn't want anyone to get close to me at all. But some parts of me were promiscuous. None of my adolescent social development was normal.
In adulthood I found myself pregnant to a awful man who was very abusive and controlling. I became trapped in that abusive relationship and the disorganized attachment played itself out again. I couldn't attach to my children because I had no internal models of attachment. They suffered. I eventually was able to leave when he went to prison for a domestic assault that left me in hospital and my children in welfare care.
The way i see it all that attachment damage is permanent. All of it has left its mark on my development. I think we are the sum of our experiences. Well I think we are more than that too. But our experiences form us. They shape who we are.
At the same time I think secure attachment can be learned. Just because it always was one way before doesn't mean it will be that way for all time. I firmly believe this.
I can't undo what has already happened.
But I can change it now so what happens from now on in will be different.
My relationship with my children is so much better now. My relationship with myself is so much better too. I am working on my relationships with others. It isn't easy but I know I will continue to work at changing it from now on in.

[malika138]

I don't know what attachment is. From the first moments of life, I have been too much for my mother to handle. She told me so. I've never had close friends. When h had an affair, I happily took him back because I was afraid of being alone, that I'd never find anyone else. And I had a t tell me I was too much. Actually a couple said that. I've had bad, hurtful attachment to a t. Is this poor attachment? Or just poor coping skills? Am I just thinking it is when really it is all pretty normal and I should get over it? I know many, many have experienced much deeper pain. What if I try to trust my current t, and she sees me for all my faults, and dumps me? Boy, I wish I could talk to t before my next appt. Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong place. It is just that I am hurting, and don't know who to tell.

[here today]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

That second article was extremely well written and insightful.

I think that it's possible to get better regardless of the degree of attachment damage you have, but I also think that it's only possible with the right therapist. I think that a lot of therapists that treat this go into it with the best of intentions but get burned out if the damage is inconceivably (to them) bad. And when that happens, I think they make it worse when they inevitably pull back and flip the script and everything the client has come to depend on as being stable and consistent and real is "taken away". I understand self preservation and all that but...in this case, it potentially leaves the client more damaged than they were before seeking help.

What I bolded is a very good description of what I think happened to me.

The problem, and a lot of my remaining anger, is that I have the ability for a good cognitive understanding of some of my difficulties and wanted to use that, in partnership with my last therapist especially, and she couldn't/wouldn't do it. Maybe it was a matter of status and control, maybe it was a matter that she hadn't been trained that people with very dissociative personalities can still use the observant part of their personalities in an adult way, even when the split-off parts aren't adult. And she was a specialist in trauma and dissociation, with post-doc training in dissociative disorders. But not what she described early in my therapy as "wounded narcissism".

The blog article about finding your own secure base -- that's extremely difficult in a situation like mine, and not very realistic to expect damaged people to do, I think, based on my own experience.

Your point about self-preservation of the therapist is good, too -- but it's still abandonment, triggering what may be an unhealed abandonment trauma in the client.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Ive started reading the janina fisher book. Just wow.

I just finished it! My T recommended it to me. It has blown my mind too.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by lucozader

I just finished it! My T recommended it to me. It has blown my mind too.

Good to hear. I just ordered a copy.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by BonnieJean

Good to hear. I just ordered a copy.

Oh, excellent! I'm really glad to see that a bunch of people here are reading/have read it. I think it's very relevant to a lot of us here. I've actually been boring my friends half to death going on about it

On the Janina Fisher book, I have a e-book copy which I'll convert to PDF and upload when I'm home from work.

EDIT:

Weblink: https://www.docdroid.net/UeJCO28/hea...ina-fisher.pdf

PDF also attached to this post.

[velcro003]

i also have just started it.

[dlantern]

I think I have bad permanent damage from society and therapist

[UglyDucky]

First, I think rather than using the word 'damaged', I would prefer a word more like 'affected by attachment issues' or 'problematic attachment issues'.

Secondly, yes, I think a person with attachment and abandonment issues will always struggle with them, to varying degrees. I've spent the past 2.5 years trying to master my fears. I've learned helpful ways to lessen suffering from my fears, but I don't expect I'll ever be a securely attached person.