[AnnaBegins]

Things with my T have not gotten better for the most part - he's still acting very distant and the lack of him being there still hurts a lot. I feel like I should find another T but I don't think I will be able to find anyone that will be there for me like he used to be and not eventually be so disgusted by what I am that they abandon me because they just can't put up with me anymore.

We had a short conversation yesterday and he told me that I am the kind of person he would want nothing to do with in his personal life. Felt like something inside of me died.

How horrible of a person does someone have to be that they can't find anyone who is willing to accept / care about them as is? Not even someone that you are paying to do exactly that.

You hear / see all these shiny happy stories of people who find someone who accepts them and loves them even though they are broken and that acceptance helps them heal. Feel like I am so badly broken that I won't ever get something like that. Not understanding why I can't just give up and accept that I am not allowed to have anything like that so I'll stop wanting it and not hurt anymore.

[Merope]

I’m so sorry to hear that! Your T doesn’t sound like a very nice person at all! Shame on him for saying something like that! I’m honestly shocked. Hugs to you!

[rainbow8]

Those words your T said are intolerable!! What kind of person is he? No T should ever say something like that to a client! It's your T who is a horrible person, not you!! Maybe you should report him. Were those his exact words? Lots of hugs to you! You said he used to be different. That's strange. Maybe he has some psychiatric illness of his own!

[maybeblue]

Were those the exact words that he used or was that the feeling you got from something he said? I don't know if you are like this or not, but I know that when I am depressed I can misinterpret something someone says to make it more negative toward me. It's part of the disorder.

I think it is important because that would be a completely unethical and mean thing for him to say to anyone and it would be hard to work with someone like that. He very well may have his own psychological problems.

[growlycat]

If it were me I would need t to restate it, clarify what he said. Those words are horrible and I hope it was a misunderstanding and not a direct quote? I’m so sorry

[nicoleflynn]

He shouldn't be a therapist;I wonder how many hurtful things he says to other clients; he obviously has issues and takes them out on you.

[fille_folle]

Wtf. Seriously. The question you should be asking is what kind of therapist says something like that to a client? The answer is someone who has very little empathy, no common sense, and is completely unsuited to being a therapist. I do not think this comment had much, if anything, to do with you - it's so completely inappropriate that it must be a reflection of some issue he has going on. I would find another therapist ASAP. You don't deserve to be treated that way. There is no circumstance I can think of where what your T said would be acceptable.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

We had a short conversation yesterday and he told me that I am the kind of person he would want nothing to do with in his personal life. Felt like something inside of me died.

Please, Anna B., report this guy! Make a formal complaint. Did he end up seeing you that night( Thursday? _ as scheduled? Meeting you in his car for sessions or at Barnes and Noble is already confusing, but saying something so destructive is beyond the pale.

Principle A: Beneficence and Nonmaleficence
Psychologists strive to benefit those with whom they work and take care to do no harm. In their professional actions, psychologists seek to safeguard the welfare and rights of those with whom they interact professionally and other affected persons, and the welfare of animal subjects of research. When conflicts occur among psychologists' obligations or concerns, they attempt to resolve these conflicts in a responsible fashion that avoids or minimizes harm. Because psychologists' scientific and professional judgments and actions may affect the lives of others, they are alert to and guard against personal, financial, social, organizational, or political factors that might lead to misuse of their influence. Psychologists strive to be aware of the possible effect of their own physical and mental health on their ability to help those with whom they work.

Principle B: Fidelity and Responsibility
Psychologists establish relationships of trust with those with whom they work. They are aware of their professional and scientific responsibilities to society and to the specific communities in which they work. Psychologists uphold professional standards of conduct, clarify their professional roles and obligations, accept appropriate responsibility for their behavior, and seek to manage conflicts of interest that could lead to exploitation or harm. Psychologists consult with, refer to, or cooperate with other professionals and institutions to the extent needed to serve the best interests of those with whom they work. They are concerned about the ethical compliance of their colleagues' scientific and professional conduct. Psychologists strive to contribute a portion of their professional time for little or no compensation or personal advantage.

Principle C: Integrity
Psychologists seek to promote accuracy, honesty, and truthfulness in the science, teaching, and practice of psychology. In these activities psychologists do not steal, cheat or engage in fraud, subterfuge, or intentional misrepresentation of fact. Psychologists strive to keep their promises and to avoid unwise or unclear commitments. In situations in which deception may be ethically justifiable to maximize benefits and minimize harm, psychologists have a serious obligation to consider the need for, the possible consequences of, and their responsibility to correct any resulting mistrust or other harmful effects that arise from the use of such techniques.

Principle D: Justice
Psychologists recognize that fairness and justice entitle all persons to access to and benefit from the contributions of psychology and to equal quality in the processes, procedures, and services being conducted by psychologists. Psychologists exercise reasonable judgment and take precautions to ensure that their potential biases, the boundaries of their competence, and the limitations of their expertise do not lead to or condone unjust practices.

Principle E: Respect for People's Rights and Dignity
Psychologists respect the dignity and worth of all people, and the rights of individuals to privacy, confidentiality, and self-determination. Psychologists are aware that special safeguards may be necessary to protect the rights and welfare of persons or communities whose vulnerabilities impair autonomous decision making. Psychologists are aware of and respect cultural, individual, and role differences, including those based on age, gender, gender identity, race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, disability, language, and socioeconomic status, and consider these factors when working with members of such groups. Psychologists try to eliminate the effect on their work of biases based on those factors, and they do not knowingly participate in or condone activities of others based upon such prejudices.

[AnnaBegins]

Thanks guys...not sure I deserve all the hugs and the kind words...wish I did...I really need them...

Those were his exact words. He also said no healthy person would want me to be a part of their personal lives because who wants someone in their personal lives who is down and unhappy with themselves all the time.

It makes sense - just wish it didn't hurt so much. I'm already really down...wish that mattered to him like it used to. Now, it seems like he just doesn't care and it feels like the reason he doesn't care is my fault for being too much myself with him.

Doesn't feel like I am ever going to get better...doesn't seem to make logical sense to keep trying...

[NP_Complete]

Wow. That's really just not acceptable. I can't believe a therapist would use those words. I'm really sorry you had to hear that from someone you trusted. I would be devastated. I would not go back after that. You deserve someone who cares about you. I hope you are able to find that somewhere.

[maybeblue]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

Thanks guys...not sure I deserve all the hugs and the kind words...wish I did...I really need them...

Those were his exact words. He also said no healthy person would want me to be a part of their personal lives because who wants someone in their personal lives who is down and unhappy with themselves all the time.

It makes sense - just wish it didn't hurt so much. I'm already really down...wish that mattered to him like it used to. Now, it seems like he just doesn't care and it feels like the reason he doesn't care is my fault for being too much myself with him.

Doesn't feel like I am ever going to get better...doesn't seem to make logical sense to keep trying...

That was not ok for him to say to you. It's not helpful. Wouldn't we all just "turn off" the negative self thoughts if we could? I don't know what happened to make this guy change, but I really think it is him and not you. I really hope that you'll at least try to make an appointment with someone else. I know starting with a new therapist is really difficult. But in this case, I think it is warranted.

[mostlylurking]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

You hear / see all these shiny happy stories of people who find someone who accepts them and loves them even though they are broken and that acceptance helps them heal. Feel like I am so badly broken that I won't ever get something like that. Not understanding why I can't just give up and accept that I am not allowed to have anything like that so I'll stop wanting it and not hurt anymore.

I'm so sorry this happened to you, Anna. It is not your fault. Your therapist is abusive. No one deserves abuse, but the abuser always tries to imply that their target is somehow at fault, or asked for it. And it's really, really hard not to believe them when you're already in a bad place. But this was your T's fault, who knows what's going on in his head but he has some serious issues.

A therapist should be non-judgmental and should seek to have compassion and an alliance with all their clients. If for some reason they don't feel able to establish that, due to counter-transference or other things, they should be honest about their own issues, and try to help that client find a therapist who can be more attuned to them.

You are not broken. I thought I was defective until I was in therapy (with a good T!), and I think that is not unusual. You just need a different T. I hope that because you were on a break with him recently, and he's been frankly awful to you since you returned, it will be easier than you think to start seeing someone new. I hope so.

[missbella]

Anna,
I'm so sorry. I went through something similar: therapists' scapegoat in front of a 10-person group therapy.

I internalized the contempt for a long time, responding similar to what you describe--I must be terrible if even my therapist hates me.

I mentally had to demote my therapist from voice-of-authority, and see him as someone's classmate who took a bunch of school courses and now has a shingle out promising to help with the most overwhelming of problems. It's a promise that not everyone is able to keep.

I had to reconcile that therapists lash out just like most people, though it seems a large betrayal from someone who promised to be our uncritical ally. They do it for myriad reasons. My specific therapist had a meltdown when I wanted to leave for some reason. But reasons can be anything from his life, the prior client, the barking dog, the wet newspaper, the news, his marriage, his family, and you became the vent for his frustration.

I think the client has to decide if this is a bad day or a bad life. Sadly there are times when the alliance becomes the liability and a 165-pound weight is lifted by leaving. I don't think it pays to stay if therapy largely makes you feel worse.

And while you're in transition, life offers much to lift your spirits from music, to walks to fitness/yoga etc.

All the best. Leaving my therapist--was the best therapy. It gets better.

[GeekyOne]

Anna, that is an awful thing to hear from anyone, let alone someone you've worked to be vulnerable with.

This is a man who is supposed to be a caring confidant for you. He is supposed to help you feel better. Yes, sometimes we all come out of therapy sessions feeling more upset but that should be because of the digging we do, and it shouldn't be an on-going thing.

I know you feel like you deserve what he said. But even if he were talking about any other client... is that comment indicative of someone you want to be baring your soul to? Even if he were to apologize and say he didn't mean it, won't you now be questioning yourself (even more) every time you say anything to him? On a purely intellectual basis, can you see how that would make it impossible to make progress therapeutically?

As a person, you deserve to be cared for. Everybody does. It is not at all dependent on what horrible things you may or may not have said/done/thought.

If you continue to see this man, can you be 100% sure you will feel better both about yourself and life in general? Given how long you've known him, if you hesitate at all in answering that, it's not worth your time or money to keep seeing him. Send him a text cancelling any appointments you have, and then block him. He will be upset, but if you're not going to see him anymore then it doesn't matter, right?

[Anne2.0]

[QUOTE=AnnaBegins;6050797]
We had a short conversation yesterday and he told me that I am the kind of person he would want nothing to do with in his personal life. Felt like something inside of me died.

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

Those were his exact words. He also said no healthy person would want me to be a part of their personal lives because who wants someone in their personal lives who is down and unhappy with themselves all the time.

I don't think he was trying to say something negative about you or put you down. I think he might have been trying to explain how difficult it is for people to deal with very depressed people who talk badly about themselves. This isn't you as a person but the terrible impact of your problems.

In my experience it is really difficult to have a friend or a lover who has serious depression, especially when it manifests as constant negativity about themselves. It is true for me that as I became more healthy, I spent less to no time with these folks.

So I don't think his words were necessarily directed at you the person, but the impact of your illness/problems/etc. But I don't know the context of your conversation with your T but I do think that people do distance themselves from those who are very negative and/or depressed.

I'm not a big believer in magical thinking and that you can just choose to not be depressed, but understanding how you impact others, especially if you're trying to improve your social world, is really important. You can't magically evict yourself from depression but you can stop putting yourself down or expressing self hatred or the like.

[NP_Complete]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I don't think he was trying to say something negative about you or put you down. I think he might have been trying to explain how difficult it is for people to deal with very depressed people who talk badly about themselves. This isn't you as a person but the terrible impact of your problems.

In my experience it is really difficult to have a friend or a lover who has serious depression, especially when it manifests as constant negativity about themselves. It is true for me that as I became more healthy, I spent less to no time with these folks.

So I don't think his words were necessarily directed at you the person, but the impact of your illness/problems/etc. But I don't know the context of your conversation with your T but I do think that people do distance themselves from those who are very negative and/or depressed.

I'm not a big believer in magical thinking and that you can just choose to not be depressed, but understanding how you impact others, especially if you're trying to improve your social world, is really important. You can't magically evict yourself from depression but you can stop putting yourself down or expressing self hatred or the like.

Even if that was his intent, I don't think he went about it in a helpful way. The words he used would be very hurtful to hear and it would be really hard not to take them personally. If a therapist can't figure out how to express that idea in a kind, caring way, they probably need to find another line of work.

[Anastasia~]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

Things with my T have not gotten better for the most part - he's still acting very distant and the lack of him being there still hurts a lot. I feel like I should find another T but I don't think I will be able to find anyone that will be there for me like he used to be and not eventually be so disgusted by what I am that they abandon me because they just can't put up with me anymore.

We had a short conversation yesterday and he told me that I am the kind of person he would want nothing to do with in his personal life. Felt like something inside of me died.

How horrible of a person does someone have to be that they can't find anyone who is willing to accept / care about them as is? Not even someone that you are paying to do exactly that.

You hear / see all these shiny happy stories of people who find someone who accepts them and loves them even though they are broken and that acceptance helps them heal. Feel like I am so badly broken that I won't ever get something like that. Not understanding why I can't just give up and accept that I am not allowed to have anything like that so I'll stop wanting it and not hurt anymore.

I've been through an awful termination and feel for you. I implore you to seek another T to help you with this, if you are able to do so. It is definitely painful and soul-wrenching. Please take care.

[AnnaBegins]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I don't think he was trying to say something negative about you or put you down. I think he might have been trying to explain how difficult it is for people to deal with very depressed people who talk badly about themselves. This isn't you as a person but the terrible impact of your problems.

In my experience it is really difficult to have a friend or a lover who has serious depression, especially when it manifests as constant negativity about themselves. It is true for me that as I became more healthy, I spent less to no time with these folks.

So I don't think his words were necessarily directed at you the person, but the impact of your illness/problems/etc. But I don't know the context of your conversation with your T but I do think that people do distance themselves from those who are very negative and/or depressed.

I'm not a big believer in magical thinking and that you can just choose to not be depressed, but understanding how you impact others, especially if you're trying to improve your social world, is really important. You can't magically evict yourself from depression but you can stop putting yourself down or expressing self hatred or the like.

I try really hard to not let anyone in my real life get to know the real me, mainly because I know that if they knew what I really was, there is no way they would stick around. I put on a "show" for those people and wear a different persona - "Business Anna" at work, "Friend Anna" when I force myself to go out with people I know, "Mom Anna" when I force myself to go out with other moms for my daughter's sake.

But...I thought it would be safe to be myself - my whole self and what I think is my real self - in therapy. How is a T supposed to help me if I go in pretending there's nothing wrong or even that there's less wrong than the reality of it?

Of course, he got to know the real me and seems to have reached a point where he is completely disgusted by it and wants very little to do with it anymore.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

I try really hard to not let anyone in my real life get to know the real me, mainly because I know that if they knew what I really was, there is no way they would stick around. I put on a "show" for those people and wear a different persona - "Business Anna" at work, "Friend Anna" when I force myself to go out with people I know, "Mom Anna" when I force myself to go out with other moms for my daughter's sake.

I would say most people have different personas around different people--I certainly do. Even "Friend LT" is different toward different friends.

But...I thought it would be safe to be myself - my whole self and what I think is my real self - in therapy. How is a T supposed to help me if I go in pretending there's nothing wrong or even that there's less wrong than the reality of it?

I agree that therapy is a place where you should be able to completely be yourself. And feel accepted for however you are.

Of course, he got to know the real me and seems to have reached a point where he is completely disgusted by it and wants very little to do with it anymore.

This is your T's issue, not you. I actually wonder if he's experiencing countertransference, like maybe you remind him of someone from his real life? Not that it excuses how he's acting--he should be examining those reactions (either within himself or in supervision/his own therapy) and figuring out what's going on so that he can keep them out of sessions with you. What he said and how he's acting is completely inappropriate. I hope you're able to find another T who accepts you as you are and wants to help you.

[missbella]

I thought clients are encouraged to show their therapists their crazy, sad, unsocial sides — anything as long as you don’t hurt other people or break furniture. Criticizing someone for acting like a therapy client is changing the rules.

I definitely have different sides to myself I share with different people. My health annoyances mean I often have to drag myself somewhere and try to be livelier than I’m inclined. I don’t think that’s being unreal or phony.

[abusedtoy]

You deserve attention, to be cared, be understood and be heard, Anna. Any feedback against this, like as what your therapist did was absolutely not right. He has a lack of understanding. Working with my T, she is understanding of those who are depressed, instead of being judgmental or discriminating the patient. So again, what your T did was not professional at all. I do wish you would be able to find an alternative therapist soon. And, it is absolutely understandable for those who have depression would have struggles and issues outwardly, and for me having been through complex trauma and major depression, I absolutely understand and would never judge anyone who suffers like this. I am sorry to hear about what you have went through, because it was not your fault at all.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

But...I thought it would be safe to be myself - my whole self and what I think is my real self - in therapy. How is a T supposed to help me if I go in pretending there's nothing wrong or even that there's less wrong than the reality of it?

Of course, he got to know the real me and seems to have reached a point where he is completely disgusted by it and wants very little to do with it anymore.

This last paragraph, that's your interpretation of what he said. I offered you another alternative. Please know that I have no problem if you want to walk away from this T for any reason. I'm not trying to convince you to stay. I don't have a dog in this fight, as they say. I just recognize from my own past how I can distort the words of others in the service of my self-loathing. The other thing I used to do (more frequently) was self sabotaging my relationships, by provoking a rejection by essentially acting in an unacceptable way and then blaming others for not accepting me (when it was really my statements or behavior that were the problem).

How did his statements come about, the ones about his private life? Did he just dump that on you out of the blue, prefacing it with "this is something I want you to know . . . "

Or did you ask him a direct question about his private life and the people in it, or something else? Or was there some other context?

If you want to stay with this T, i'd encourage you to tell him how you interpreted what he said and listen to what he has to say. Only then can you know if your interpretations are correct.

[AnnaBegins]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

How did his statements come about, the ones about his private life? Did he just dump that on you out of the blue, prefacing it with "this is something I want you to know . . . "

We were talking about how someone had stood me up that day with no notice or apology - kinda like what he did a month ago when he cancelled our regular session with a three line text right before it was supposed to take place, although I did not bring that up because I knew that would make him angry. I had said that at minimum, I expected the person to let me know before we were supposed to meet that we could not because of xyz and that ideally I would have loved to merit an apology and offer to reschedule. He said that my problem is that I have expectations and that I have no right to them. Then he dropped the personal life comment.

[JaneTennison1]

Originally Posted by AnnaBegins

We were talking about how someone had stood me up that day with no notice or apology - kinda like what he did a month ago when he cancelled our regular session with a three line text right before it was supposed to take place, although I did not bring that up because I knew that would make him angry. I had said that at minimum, I expected the person to let me know before we were supposed to meet that we could not because of xyz and that ideally I would have loved to merit an apology and offer to reschedule. He said that my problem is that I have expectations and that I have no right to them. Then he dropped the personal life comment.

Oh god this is so hideous. Yeah we all have expectations in our interactions with others and sometimes we have to change them or learn to expect something else but that does not mean you have no right to them.

My T just cancelled our session for tomorrow. She didn't apologise but did give a brief outline of why she was cancelling (because she knows I worry) and then offer a reschedule.

Expectations aren't hard and fast rules, if someone cancels short notice then I do expect an apology sometimes but if they give some other scenario (as my T did ) then that works too and I am not rigid. That does not mean I have no right to my expectations of people.

Don't Ts have boundaries? Can't we have them too?

[BudFox]

Sounds like an insensitive and childish jack-***.

Seems to me the conundrum is that therapists are supposed to always be on your side and refrain from judging, yet this sets up a fake dynamic wherein the client potentially gets coddled. If this guy is harboring that sort of opinion but instead tells you he thinks you're super swell, isn't that also a problem?

Seems clients are encouraged to rebuild their self-worth around the engineered caring of the therapist, and then if cracks appear in that caring, the client feels devastated or betrayed. But therapists are head cases like everyone else, and can be bastards and cowards, and their actions need not mean anything special.