[fille_folle]

I've been obsessing over thoughts about my T being mean. Fictional thoughts. My T is not mean. She's not especially warm and fuzzy, but I certainly wouldn't call her mean. I don't understand why I'm having these thoughts. Worse, I'm getting a sort of perverse satisfaction from daydreaming about her being mean to me. I don't get it.

In the fantasies, I do something outrageous to provoke her. This is very unlike me. I am not a manipulative person and I have never intentionally tested a T.

I'm just confused. I'm worried I might subconsciously act on these feelings. That would horrify me. I already took a step in that direction by sending her a crazy text last week. I never text T. Never. I was really distraught at the time, but still... I'm worried that maybe I was acting out.

Has anyone else had a weird preoccupation with the idea of their T getting angry? I don't mean paranoia that T is actually angry, this is something different.

[LonesomeTonight]

Are you having some sort of self-loathing thoughts? Like maybe you feel you deserve your T to be mean to you? Or at least that you don't deserve her to be so nice? Or...are you used to people being mean to you, so you're better at relating to people who act that way? Just a couple thoughts.

At one point, I thought I might need my marriage counselor to be mean/harsh to me so that I could finally break free of him. Unfortunately, he did end up being harsh to me, and it hurt like hell. But...did allow me to break free, I guess...

This could be something good to discuss with your T...

[satsuma]

I wonder if it is a type of obsessive thought, because of the fact that you don't want it to happen in real life? A friend described ruminative OCD (which she suffers with sometimes) to me and I think it possibly might be similar in the sense that the thoughts are about things which would be very upsetting if they were to actually happen.

I'm no expert though! I think it would be fine to address this directly with your T. I know some things feel awkward for the client but I think the therapist is trained and able to address any issue and wouldn't think badly of you or take it personally.

That type of thing can come about from feelings of helplessness. It could be that you want to affect her; because if you affect her, she cares or she x or y. It's can be a way to take your power back. If you put yourself in the vulnerable position on your own, you are in control. All sorts of things..

[fille_folle]

Hmm... no, there's no way I will tell my T about this. I'm not as brave as it seems most people here are. I can tell my T hard things, but only as long as they don't involve her.

I'm not sure if I'm having self-loathing thoughts. I mean, I often do, but I haven't noticed myself having them while I'm thinking of T being angry with me. It's very strange. Maybe I'm using her as a proxy in my mind.

Ruminative OCD does sound a bit similar, however I don't think this issue causes me as much distress as it does people with OCD. I get a weird satisfaction from thinking about it, rather than just distress (there is some, but that's mixed with the weird satisfaction).

I do think it could be about helplessness. My T isn't a blank slate, but she's much harder to read than my previous T.

This may be a parts issue, but I like to pretend I don't have that problem.

[stopdog]

I fantasized about me being mean to the therapist. I told her. It did not seem to bother her at all.

[zoiecat]

I frequently have these thoughts. I have actually asked my T to be mean to me. It stems from my first twenty years of life. I am very uncomfortable with people being nice to me. It makes me dissociate. People being mean to me is all I know. It is what I am comfortable with. I have also asked boyfriends to hit me in the past because I couldn't deal with them being mad or upset with me.

My T took it quite well. He said he would never be mean to me and explained the reasons why. He said even if he wanted to accommodate me and be a bit gruff he would not do so because he would be afraid of crossing the line of going too far and hurting me more. He always validates my twisted thoughts and says it makes perfect sense that I would think that way but he would prefer that I learn to accept people treating me well.

It is still an obsessive thought of mine and I have had the same thoughts about other authority figures while growing up. Good luck to you. Hopefully you can get past it because I know I sure can't.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

Has anyone else had a weird preoccupation with the idea of their T getting angry?

I don't think it's a weird preoccupation -- I really needed to goad her to anger (repeatedly). And I did. And, it wasn't pretty. But, it was really helpful to see. And, to know exactly how awful it can get.

I needed to see the mask come off (and then get back on again, to know that there is a mask but perhaps that's not all there is, either).

I see it as a trust issue.

Nowadays I am on a kick of pushing her patience -- I can see her getting impatient and I have this overwhelming urge to keep pushing until I see when and how her patience breaks.

Originally Posted by Rayne_

That type of thing can come about from feelings of helplessness. It could be that you want to affect her; because if you affect her, she cares or she x or y. It's can be a way to take your power back. If you put yourself in the vulnerable position on your own, you are in control. All sorts of things..

This.....

[Lemoncake]

It's perfectly okay.

At times I couldn't stand R being nice to me and would have preferred it if he'd told me that I was stupid or ugly. I did try to provoke him into shouting or getting angry at me but he never did- just stayed stupidly calm as a cuecumber. For me anyway I think it's because the idea that I'm so worthless is so deeply ingrained into me I don't think I deserve to be treated well. I don't know love that doesn't involve forms of abuse.

[Merope]

I have this as well. My T is the kindest, nicest person I met in a long time and he would never do anything to intentionally hurt me. Sometimes though, I fantasise that he is super mean to me and says cruel things. I think I partly do this because of unresolved transference: my father was always painfully critical so I sort of expect that sort of treatment from male authority figures. I don’t know if subconsciously I think I deserve it, but I definitely expect it. Sometimes his kindness and acceptance throws me off and I feel the need to overcompensate by imagining him being mean to me. Then my world feels balanced again. I don’t fully understand why, but I notice myself doing it.

I also sometimes feel the need to test him (not consciously, but I’m starting to notice a pattern). I’m too much of a chicken to actually do it, but sometimes I fantasise that he lashes out in response to something I said or did and then I have that “ahh, there it is” moment: the kind of moment that screams out “I wondered how long it would take you to see how messed up i really am and give up on me/lose your patience/ show your dislike of me.”

I think that maybe this sort of thing is worth discussing with your T. I want to bring it up with mine but I haven’t yet found a way to do it without wanting to hide under my chair.

[TeaVicar?]

This sounds so normal to me. Lots of helpful suggestions above. Perhaps also, you are in a relationship that you feel safe in and can fantasise about pushing boundaries or provoking her - Maybe the cruelty is what you are familiar with when you have previously tried to act out as a child. Perhaps you need to do some reality testing and see how she responds when you do act out. Pushing boundaries and acting out are a normal part of childhood development and therapy.

[fille_folle]

@awkwardlyyours and @lemoncake do you test other people in your life, too? I'm trying to think if I've ever felt this way with someone else.

[maybeblue]

This is really interesting. I thought I was the only one who did this. I can remember fantasizing about this as far back as preschool. I did it all through growing up with teachers and even imaginary people. The thing is I was a good kid, and adults were rarely mean to me. On the few occasions that they were I hated it. But imagining it was soothing and maybe even a little empowering because in my fantasies I could always handle it.

I still do it in times of stress. It's still soothing to me. I have talked to my therapist about it. He doesn't understand it, but he isn't all freaked out by it either. I've pretty much decided that it's ok for me. Bubble baths and lovey-dovey self talk doesn't calm me down. This does. And it's less harmful to me than cutting or eating.

I have noticed that as I've gotten more assertive in real life, I need this less.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

@awkwardlyyours and @lemoncake do you test other people in your life, too? I'm trying to think if I've ever felt this way with someone else.

Yep. I've done this in intimate relationships. And, a bit with friendships as well.

Basically, I can't really trust that someone is there (and even that's no guarantee) if I've not seen them lose it in some way.

Current therapist was shocked when I repeated to her the stuff she'd told me (she'd used language that I've never heard her use) and basically said, she couldn't believe she'd said stuff like that (not that she disbelieved me but shock that she'd let herself go kinda thing). She also ended up crying at some point and all of it dragged on for many weeks (a couple of months actually) with brief spurts coming back up ever so often.

She tried to explain it as some mix of projective identification and counter-transference. And, finally (much later) said that she'd known she somehow needed to "survive it" (my goading / anger) because she realized that was how I chose to test.

[missbella]

I can imagine where it would come from if I did fantasize a therapist being mean. It might come from my vexation that the therapist uses a persona with me, and that I feel I'm not experiencing the full spectrum of her behavior. It might also relate to the desire to see her lose inhibition-- like having the urge to push the entire library to break out in dancing the funky chicken.

Unfortunately, I experienced extremely mean therapists. The male psychologists scorned, the female psych social worker screamed about my weaknesses in front of about nine others in group therapy. I wasn't rude, outrageous or testing anyone. I merely was honest that therapy wasn't helpful and wished to terminate.

I learned important lessons about demoting my gurus, but I don't recommend prodding one's therapist to be mean.

[annielovesbacon]

Yes, I frequently fantasize about my T getting angry. Maybe fantasize is the wrong word? I like to imagine all sorts of different situations where my T is angry with me.

I'm not really sure why, but I think maybe it's because my T is so even-keeled. I think if I saw her angry, it would show that she is "human" not just a robot T.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by annielovesbacon

Yes, I frequently fantasize about my T getting angry. Maybe fantasize is the wrong word? I like to imagine all sorts of different situations where my T is angry with me.

I'm not really sure why, but I think maybe it's because my T is so even-keeled. I think if I saw her angry, it would show that she is "human" not just a robot T.

The reason I used the word "fantasize" is that I get satisfaction from thinking about it.

[Merope]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

The reason I used the word "fantasize" is that I get satisfaction from thinking about it.

Do your fantasies ever have “happy endings”? For example, do you just get satisfaction from imagining your T being mean, or from your T realising she/he has been mean and apologising or trying to make up for it?

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by Merope

Do your fantasies ever have “happy endings”? For example, do you just get satisfaction from imagining your T being mean, or from your T realising she/he has been mean and apologising or trying to make up for it?

No... now that I think about it, they don't really have an ending. This is not something I actually want to happen, and if it did, I wouldn't deal with it very well. The fantasies involve either only the moment when my T gets mad, or else include me provoking her first. They don't include my reaction to her anger or meanness.

[missbella]

I can see imaging a composed person losing her composure.

[Lrad123]

This post is really fascinating to me because I absolutely do this also, but it didn’t even occur to me that I do this until I read your post. My T is also very kind and in real life I can’t imagine that he’d ever be anything close to mean. In my real life, I am also generally nice and get along with others including my T. I am probably a people pleaser, in fact. But I *really* want to push his buttons and I don’t know why. In retrospect I have probably tested him. I frequently expect him to be offended or annoyed or give me the cold shoulder but he doesn’t at all, and I think that really throws me for a loop. I simultaneously like the fact that he is so kind, but also hate it. I’m not sure, but I think I might want to have the power to affect him. Or maybe I just want a reason to push him away. I do get some sort of weird satisfaction or comfort out of imagining him being upset with me in some way, and as a result I find myself wanting to pick a fight even though that would be pretty out of character for me.

I don’t think I have the nerve to bring this up with my T right now because it’s pretty embarrassing to say out loud, but let me know if you bring it up with yours. I’m guessing it would be a good thing to talk about.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

I've been obsessing over thoughts about my T being mean. Fictional thoughts. My T is not mean. She's not especially warm and fuzzy, but I certainly wouldn't call her mean. I don't understand why I'm having these thoughts. Worse, I'm getting a sort of perverse satisfaction from daydreaming about her being mean to me. I don't get it.

In the fantasies, I do something outrageous to provoke her. This is very unlike me. I am not a manipulative person and I have never intentionally tested a T.

I'm just confused. I'm worried I might subconsciously act on these feelings. That would horrify me. I already took a step in that direction by sending her a crazy text last week. I never text T. Never. I was really distraught at the time, but still... I'm worried that maybe I was acting out.

Has anyone else had a weird preoccupation with the idea of their T getting angry? I don't mean paranoia that T is actually angry, this is something different.

Yes!!! I know my T is a nice gentle guy, but there are times I imagine him as deliberately mean, and I want to lash back or start something to show he is, to reveal this. Like you, I work so so hard to control and suppress it, and not act it out. Like you T , mine is far from warm and fuzzy, but he isn't cruel. He is really unyielding though , and sometimes that feels mean.

[mina_xo]

I didn't really think about this until I saw this thread, but I certainly do this. My T is very kind, even when he's challenging me. I like to imagine him being more cruel in the way he talks to me.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I don’t think I have the nerve to bring this up with my T right now because it’s pretty embarrassing to say out loud, but let me know if you bring it up with yours. I’m guessing it would be a good thing to talk about.

Oh no, I could never tell her that I think these things. I am, unfortunately, not one of those people who can bear to bring up interpersonal stuff.