[healinginprogress]

Do you think you're being maipulated in therapy? Can you see it and/or avoid it? Do you call your therapist out on it?

How much do you care?

Personally, I see a big difference between manipulation and lying which is my line in the sand. I think we constantly manipulate and are manipulated by people in our lives so I don't see therapy as something hugely different.

I have no doubt that my T manipulates me, but I'm becoming a better person so it doesn't bother me.

But I'm interested in hearing other thoughts on why it's good or bad.

[DP_2017]

Probably but like you said, it's common in humans anyway..... so nothing new. I would never say anything but most likely it will end badly for me. I can't see me at all being ok with never having him in my life again.

[stopdog]

Yes I believe they try to do so. I did call them out on it and I did fend it off. I cared about it a great deal.

[weaverbeaver]

I would say all ts try to manipulate because really they are trying to mould us into an ideal human and not all of us will fit into that box, if any because nobody is perfect.
I see how my t tried to manipulate me by saying I do certain things and I strongly disagree. I sometimes wonder if she gets me mixed up with her other clients.

I had a therapist totally make up a story about herself in an attempt to empathize with me. It was very obvious that she made it up, so I called her on it. She admitted to making it up (basically lying) but didn't apologize (she had previously told me she never apologized to clients). It pretty much cemented my opinion that she was incompetent and I terminated a couple of weeks later.

[lucozader]

No, I don't think my T manipulates me and I would not be okay with him doing that.

[starfishing]

I've had past therapists try unsuccessfully to be manipulative, which I found deeply unacceptable (and was very grateful that they were too clumsy/stupid/arrogant to be effective manipulators). Their reactions when called out were interesting... One flat out denied he'd said some things that he said (even something that he wrote in an email), one admitted to it being a form of manipulation but argued it was harmless and shouldn't bother me (disagree), and one simultaneously argued it was her job to be manipulative in certain ways and that it's "not really manipulation" if it happens in therapy (also disagree).

[maybeblue]

I don't think either of my current therapists try to manipulate me. Of course if they were very good at it, I wouldn't know I suppose. It would bother me if I noticed them trying, and I'd probably say something. I just don't think it is their style though...at least not with me. I'm fairly motivated too, so I don't think it's particularly necessary for them to be sneaky.

To a certain extent I think that all therapy is manipulative. It's all about changing perceptions and ways of thinking, right? I think there is a difference between manipulation for personal gain vs manipulation as a tool to challenge perceptions. I do think that there is a helpful way to go about it and an unhelpful or untruthful way that will inevitably backfire.

[stopdog]

I do not see there being a difference. I do believe a good number of clients accept it without rancor or question. I am not among them, but I think they exist.

[the forgotten]

Originally Posted by ByStarlight

I had a therapist totally make up a story about herself in an attempt to empathize with me. It was very obvious that she made it up, so I called her on it. She admitted to making it up (basically lying) but didn't apologize (she had previously told me she never apologized to clients). It pretty much cemented my opinion that she was incompetent and I terminated a couple of weeks later.

I would be upset if this happened to me. I feel it's unethical.

And what is it with therapists never apologizing? What message are they conveying?

[feralkittymom]

Well, I've never had a T not apologize, let alone have a policy of never apologizing.

I suppose Ts manipulate about as much as teachers. I "manipulate" students when I steer a discussion, when I ask a question because I know what their likely answers will be, and it will move us closer to the goal I have for the class. My comments on their work could be seen as manipulative in that I am trying to influence them in a variety of ways. I've been known to answer a question with a question, to imply that I don't know an answer when I do in order to further their critical thinking. If it was good enough for Socrates, who am I to have a problem with it?

[guilloche]

I'm curious what you all consider "manipulation"? Can you give examples?

The only things I've experienced that seemed dishonest and bugged me were:

1. I've had Ts who said they were familiar with something (a band, a tv show) and I suspected that they weren't. I got the impression that they did that to move the conversation along though, and to avoid me jumping off on a tangent (explaining who the band was, or what the show was about) that might not be a good use of the limited time we have in therapy (and might look like I'm unconsciously wasting time to avoid talking about my issues/feelings).

I didn't call them out on it, and I understand why they'd do it. But, I do kind of resent it, because I think that, at least for me, it's important that the person I'm talking to be honest. I have a hard enough time trusting, if they're going to lie about whether or not they know who "10,000 Maniacs" is, it's going to make it harder (even if it's unconscious!) to trust them with the big stuff.

2 - Look up "paradoxical intervention". I'm pretty sure old T did this with me. I was incredibly depressed. I don't normally drink alcohol at all (I have no interest), but I was depressed enough that I was starting to want it and was struggling a bit. Old T said something like, "well, you should just go ahead and have a drink then" (I don't remember the exact words).

I got upset, and explained the many, many reasons why that was a bad idea (see trigger below) and the fact that since I was miserable and working from home (nothing stopping me from quickly going from "a drink" to "waking up with a drink" and then "drinking all day") that it was stupid and dangerous.

Possible trigger:

Trigger stuff: I was self-injuring at the time. Adding alcohol to that seemed like a really, really bad idea... and was having some suicidal thoughts.

I think that, on the one hand, the intervention worked. I didn't drink. I was mad at him for being stupid, and stopped wanting to drink. On the other hand, it made me not trust his judgment - because, given the circumstances, suggesting that I go ahead and just have a drink seemed stupid and dangerous, and made me think that he wasn't able to see all the ways that it could quickly go wrong. It gave the impression that he was just not very smart, and that really didn't help the therapeutic alliance at all or make me feel like I was in good hands with my care! Definitely did not help with trust.

So, I don't know. It seems risky to do stuff like this, as a therapist, because you can really damage the trust and the relationship with your client, but it sounds like it's not uncommon?

[BudFox]

I found all therapists manipulative... pretending to care, feigning interest in my problems, using medical jargon to imply they are like doctors, failing to disclose information that would help me assess their competence, claiming expertise they don't possess, urging trust while not earning it. The list goes on.

[koru_kiwi]

my ex-T manipulated me and i called him out on it. he admitted to it and half-assed apologised for it. i lost a lot of respect, trust and safety that day. those things were never fully regained after. it was not long after that when i eventually terminated.

i'm pretty sure that was not the first time over all those years that he had done that. it was just the first time i was able to fully recognise it for what it was and had the courage to challenge him on it.

Can't say I've really experienced it.

[TeaVicar?]

Yes, I've felt it and asked him about it. He didn't deny it but did say something along the lines of... manipulation wouldn't be a nice or ethical thing... back to childhood blah blah blah.

He has definitely challenged me though and possibly provoked. So what's the difference between challenging, provoking and manipulation?

[seeker33]

My T has used it to manipulate me to think in a certain direction and then denied doing it.
Although I didn't like the manipulation, I could understand why she tried to do it. What made me more angry was her denial of doing it. That definitely had a negative impact on my trust. I want to talk about what has been said and discuss if it was helpful to me or not. However when the T denies having said something, it's hurtful as it repeats patterns of psychological abuse from my past. Generally, I myself try to be honest and sincere and it hurts me when others aren't.