[SarahSweden]

I compare myself to others, not everyone but some people on a lot of different things from looks to how they live.


In a way I also compare myself to my T and I feel embarrassed about it. I more or less know she has a "better" life than I do as she´s married, she lives closer to town than I do, she has good work. As she´s born in the same town as we now both live, I´m not, I understand she probably has both parents and perhaps also siblings to meet with.

By this I partly feel pathetic for sitting in session and talking about stuff she already got and that I want. That I for example want to find a partner and that I struggle to find a way back to the job market.


My therapist is very supportive, she emphazies the importance of seeing what I already have in life and she never speaks about herself to make me feel envious. But from those few things she has mentioned about herself and me seeing things like her wearing brand glasses and similar it makes me feel that anyway.

In general my T doesn´t share that much about herself and even if I could ask her anything I wouldn´t really want to know the answer. But it still makes me a bit angry for knowing so little about her and I think that is because I know there are a lot of things that I would envy that we don´t talk about.


I think I in that respect feel a bit like a child who "we shouldn´t tell about the candy" whilst I´m a grown up who understands about the candy anyway. At the same time I know it would be hurtful for me if my T for example told me she had spent her weekend with her husband in some nice summer house or similar.


I think it´s the "good old power imbalance" that strikes me.

Can anyone relate or understand this?

I use to feel the differences between myself and T a lot in the early years. Jealous of her difference in living.
Think that stemmed from a left over feelings from those young feelings of sibling rivalry.
As to knowing more about her.
She didn't self disclose a thing until this last year. Thsts 14 yrs of knowing nowt.
This past year she's begun saying the odd thing here and there. And you know what, it's not that extraordinary. Hasn't changed the relationship. Hasn't made it more intimate or whatever other phantasy people have around this. That was already there. It's the sharing of me than details that create a bond.

[coolibrarian]

I understand you, SarahSweden. I think it's important that you talk to your T about this, over and over, until it loses its power. That is, until it no longer bothers you. I know it's hard, but try to imagine your T as a normal person, with problems even married people with good jobs in good houses. have. For example, she might have brand-name eyeglassess, but she could still lose an eyeglass screw. Her washing machine might overflow. She could get a dental cavity. She could get a flat tire. All of the annoyances of life that we all face from time to time. Kram.

[satsuma]

Originally Posted by coolibrarian

I understand you, SarahSweden. I think it's important that you talk to your T about this, over and over, until it loses its power. That is, until it no longer bothers you. I know it's hard, but try to imagine your T as a normal person, with problems even married people with good jobs in good houses. have. For example, she might have brand-name eyeglassess, but she could still lose an eyeglass screw. Her washing machine might overflow. She could get a dental cavity. She could get a flat tire. All of the annoyances of life that we all face from time to time. Kram.

I think this is a good idea. And I would add for me that working on my own life has helped me to appreciate it more, to see myself as more of a 'normal' person who is basically similar to other people. And to be able to tell things to my T where the roles might be reversed, even in tiny little things like me describing a film makes T want to see it, or to hear a piece of music, or to look inside a building that I have been inside but T has only ever walked past (that one is a real example). So yes I think therapy and talking does help and does help with these kinds of feelings, over time.

I do totally get what you mean though Sarah and have had similar kinds of feelings myself.

[Salmon77]

I get what you're saying, and I sometimes compare myself to others, too. But really these are very superficial things you're talking about. Certainly it helps to have a job, a relationship, family, etc. but they aren't what makes people happy, because lots of people have all that stuff and are completely miserable. So I wonder if it would help to try thinking about the shame you feel separately from thinking about the stuff you want and don't have, because it might be that even if you had a job, partner, summer house, etc. you would still feel the same way.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I don´t think her sharing more would ease my envy, it would probably just do the opposite. I think I´m a bit angry about the power imbalance but at the same time I know and intellectually understand why the T keeps most of herself outside therapy. I know mean sharing where she lives, what interests she has and such.

It was interesting your T shared more after such a long time together.

Originally Posted by Mouse_62

I use to feel the differences between myself and T a lot in the early years. Jealous of her difference in living.
Think that stemmed from a left over feelings from those young feelings of sibling rivalry.
As to knowing more about her.
She didn't self disclose a thing until this last year. Thsts 14 yrs of knowing nowt.
This past year she's begun saying the odd thing here and there. And you know what, it's not that extraordinary. Hasn't changed the relationship. Hasn't made it more intimate or whatever other phantasy people have around this. That was already there. It's the sharing of me than details that create a bond.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I agree on that and I nearly sent her an e-mail about this but hesitated and I didn´t go through with it. But eventually I´ll have to share something about it, in one way or another.


I know her life isn´t as "perfect" as I perhaps imagine it to be but she though has "succeeded" on several important areas in life like getting married, getting a job. At least she has done those things even if she might argue with her husband from time to time and she might not always like her work.

Kram tillbaka.

Originally Posted by coolibrarian

I understand you, SarahSweden. I think it's important that you talk to your T about this, over and over, until it loses its power. That is, until it no longer bothers you. I know it's hard, but try to imagine your T as a normal person, with problems even married people with good jobs in good houses. have. For example, she might have brand-name eyeglassess, but she could still lose an eyeglass screw. Her washing machine might overflow. She could get a dental cavity. She could get a flat tire. All of the annoyances of life that we all face from time to time. Kram.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I think if one can improve life the difference between oneself and others gets smaller but in my case I´m nearly 40 and I have never had a longer employment and I have never been in a relationship. By that it´s impossible to find some normality as lacking such experience is really not the norm in society.

I don´t think my T would jugde me if I told her I compare myself to her and that I sometimes envy her but I think I then would feel even more like a loser. I kind of "lose all dignity" when I fall for such thoughts and compare myself.

Originally Posted by satsuma

I think this is a good idea. And I would add for me that working on my own life has helped me to appreciate it more, to see myself as more of a 'normal' person who is basically similar to other people. And to be able to tell things to my T where the roles might be reversed, even in tiny little things like me describing a film makes T want to see it, or to hear a piece of music, or to look inside a building that I have been inside but T has only ever walked past (that one is a real example). So yes I think therapy and talking does help and does help with these kinds of feelings, over time.

I do totally get what you mean though Sarah and have had similar kinds of feelings myself.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, you´re right about this, people can be depressed, low and feel bad even if they got "all". I think to me the most embarrassing in this isn´t the fact that she for example owns a summer house (if she does, I don´t know) and I don´t but the fact that I compare myself to her and by that I also fantasize about things I don´t know exist or not.


It´s also that I feel like a loser for not being able to fix my life better and that I know end up envious of my T because I know she´s married and that she lives in a better area than me.


I don´t think she´s happy all the time but she has a more fulfilled life, or else she wouldn´t be able to continue as a T. I mean, if she was very lonely, poor and such she would never be a therapist in the first place.


I don´t understand all parts in my embarrassement really, why I feel that way and why this is one of the hardest things to admit and to tell my T. Hopefully I can some day.

Originally Posted by Salmon77

I get what you're saying, and I sometimes compare myself to others, too. But really these are very superficial things you're talking about. Certainly it helps to have a job, a relationship, family, etc. but they aren't what makes people happy, because lots of people have all that stuff and are completely miserable. So I wonder if it would help to try thinking about the shame you feel separately from thinking about the stuff you want and don't have, because it might be that even if you had a job, partner, summer house, etc. you would still feel the same way.

[Favorite Jeans]

How much time do you spend with people who have less than you do, who are in more dire straits?

You know I've shared a lot with you about my own feelings of jealousy and inadequacy in these threads. I'm not asking this from a place of self-righteousness. It's a sincere question.

I spend part of every day as the poorest person in my middle-class life. It seems like everyone owns their home, has recently completed gorgeous renovations, has a cottage by a lake and money put away while I am renting an okay-enough place that's kind of small and has a gritty kitchen and am in a mountain of debt... But I spend the other part of each day with people who are experiencing true hardship. Like the real-deal worst things that can befall us.

It helps me keep it in perspective. Everyone has their road and this is mine. We get to choose some things but not others.

What we fully get to choose is the meaning we ascribe to our circumstances, how we frame our lives, our struggles, our opportunities. It helps me to remember that I can choose appreciation, gratitude and at the same time fight for justice.

Jealousy is okay because every emotion is okay, but it is not really where you want to build your home. It keeps you small and isolated. It makes everything about you. You want to acknowledge it, keep being gentle with it and also keep your eye on the bigger picture. Who do you want to be? What do you have to give?

It's one of those paradoxical things where you might be more likely to have enough if you are giving enough.

[wheeler]

My T has told me that I should never judge my insides by someone else's outside. I try to keep that in mind when I become jealous of her 'perceived' life.

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by wheeler

My T has told me that I should never judge my insides by someone else's outside. I try to keep that in mind when I become jealous of her 'perceived' life.

I was JUST going to write that! ;-)

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I agree about trying to get some perspective by spending time with people or meeting with people whose life situation is worse than mine. I could perhaps then feel a bit lighter about my own situation but I think I would still compare myself to my T.

I can, at least intellecually, understand that I can contribute to society and to other people in different ways, but at the same time I can´t just accept, I´m not 40 yet, that I won´t get a better life than this. As my therapist is important to me I think that also gives birth to my comparisons to her and me thinking about how she might live.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

How much time do you spend with people who have less than you do, who are in more dire straits?

You know I've shared a lot with you about my own feelings of jealousy and inadequacy in these threads. I'm not asking this from a place of self-righteousness. It's a sincere question.

I spend part of every day as the poorest person in my middle-class life. It seems like everyone owns their home, has recently completed gorgeous renovations, has a cottage by a lake and money put away while I am renting an okay-enough place that's kind of small and has a gritty kitchen and am in a mountain of debt... But I spend the other part of each day with people who are experiencing true hardship. Like the real-deal worst things that can befall us.

It helps me keep it in perspective. Everyone has their road and this is mine. We get to choose some things but not others.

What we fully get to choose is the meaning we ascribe to our circumstances, how we frame our lives, our struggles, our opportunities. It helps me to remember that I can choose appreciation, gratitude and at the same time fight for justice.

Jealousy is okay because every emotion is okay, but it is not really where you want to build your home. It keeps you small and isolated. It makes everything about you. You want to acknowledge it, keep being gentle with it and also keep your eye on the bigger picture. Who do you want to be? What do you have to give?

It's one of those paradoxical things where you might be more likely to have enough if you are giving enough.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, this is very good to try to keep in mind, last session my T said to me that it isn´t fair to compare oneself to others as they might have had better conditions from the beginning. She said they might have had parents who supported them even when they made mistakes or parents who were very driven people who could help their kids to good jobs or similar.


This is very true but at the same time difficult to understand on an emotional level.


Also, I think that being married and live in a nice part of town as my T does will always mean having a better life than I do. I can´t know how her marriage is but as she works as a T, which differs from many other occupations, I presuppose that she has a stable and good life. I mean, she can´t live in a very bad marriage and still be able to work as a T. That is, she has much more support and love than I do and that makes me compare myself to her.

Originally Posted by wheeler

My T has told me that I should never judge my insides by someone else's outside. I try to keep that in mind when I become jealous of her 'perceived' life.

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Also, I think that being married and live in a nice part of town as my T does will always mean having a better life than I do. I can´t know how her marriage is but as she works as a T, which differs from many other occupations, I presuppose that she has a stable and good life. I mean, she can´t live in a very bad marriage and still be able to work as a T. That is, she has much more support and love than I do and that makes me compare myself to her.

No marriage is perfect and actually, therapists have a fairly high divorce rate. I know mine is on her second marriage and she is a MFT. I read an article about how it can be hard to balance home & work life and how spouses can feel slighted that their significant other is so willing to listen and engage with strangers problems but often won't at home. No marriage is perfect and no life is without problems. You may look at someones life as perfect and be filled with jealousy but what you dont see is maybe a cheating spouse or abusive parents, maybe they have been through the same pain as what you have. Jealousy is natural but admitting it and working through it is hard. Best of luck to you.

[Favorite Jeans]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. Yes, this is very good to try to keep in mind, last session my T said to me that it isn´t fair to compare oneself to others as they might have had better conditions from the beginning. She said they might have had parents who supported them even when they made mistakes or parents who were very driven people who could help their kids to good jobs or similar.


This is very true but at the same time difficult to understand on an emotional level.


Also, I think that being married and live in a nice part of town as my T does will always mean having a better life than I do. I can´t know how her marriage is but as she works as a T, which differs from many other occupations, I presuppose that she has a stable and good life. I mean, she can´t live in a very bad marriage and still be able to work as a T. That is, she has much more support and love than I do and that makes me compare myself to her.

Oh she really, really can.

I hope she doesn't. But one can absolutely live in a very bad marriage and still work as a T.

The broader point is really important though. Very little of our material good fortune or social class standing is merit-based. Most people die in the same wealth bracket and social class into which they were born. Individual talent and drive are not such strong determinants. The stories of paupers who become fabulously wealthy and children of millionaires who end up sleeping on the street are interesting precisely because they are the tiny exceptions that prove rule.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I know one as a client actually sees very little of the therapist´s "real life" so to speak but to me my T (and many others) has passed important milestones in life while I live like a student in many aspects. My T:s marriage for example is for sure not just happy all the time but at least she has taken the step to get married. She has a job which is surely not all good either but she has a job and she´s established in society.


I think knowing this is enough for me to feel envy and to feel inferior, not that I believe that everything my T has is all good. But I get your point and I agree to it.

Originally Posted by besidemyselvez

No marriage is perfect and actually, therapists have a fairly high divorce rate. I know mine is on her second marriage and she is a MFT. I read an article about how it can be hard to balance home & work life and how spouses can feel slighted that their significant other is so willing to listen and engage with strangers problems but often won't at home. No marriage is perfect and no life is without problems. You may look at someones life as perfect and be filled with jealousy but what you dont see is maybe a cheating spouse or abusive parents, maybe they have been through the same pain as what you have. Jealousy is natural but admitting it and working through it is hard. Best of luck to you.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. That´s interesting, have you perhaps had a T who had a bad marriage and still met with you and other clients?

My T seems balanced in that respect but everyone can put on a mask of course.


I try to believe that education will pay off in some way, at least to get an interesting job in the future even if it doesn´t give me a high income. In a way I have already moved from my working class background to a more "edcucated" class as I´ve studied a lot more than any of my relatives has. But then it kind of stopped when I became depressed and low because of not getting work and not having the courage to seek out a relationship.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Oh she really, really can.

I hope she doesn't. But one can absolutely live in a very bad marriage and still work as a T.

The broader point is really important though. Very little of our material good fortune or social class standing is merit-based. Most people die in the same wealth bracket and social class into which they were born. Individual talent and drive are not such strong determinants. The stories of paupers who become fabulously wealthy and children of millionaires who end up sleeping on the street are interesting precisely because they are the tiny exceptions that prove rule.

[downandlonely]

I used to be jealous of married people, but I'm not anymore. I have a lot more freedom and independence than they have. I'm used to living on my own now and wouldn't like to adjust to living with someone else.

[Favorite Jeans]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. That´s interesting, have you perhaps had a T who had a bad marriage and still met with you and other clients?

My T seems balanced in that respect but everyone can put on a mask of course.

I know almost nothing about my T's marriage beyond the fact that it exists. But I have known lots and lots of T's in my personal life as family members and friends over the years. I have seen their marriages in pretty good detail (including my own parents' marriage) and can tell you that some are good and some are meh and some are spectacularly terrible.

I do think that if you are consistently picking up a sense of calm, contentedness and balance from your T, it's probably genuine. That sort of thing is hard to fake and, you're right, is probably not consistent with major marital strife. That's your therapist though, not all therapists.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by wheeler

My T has told me that I should never judge my insides by someone else's outside. I try to keep that in mind when I become jealous of her 'perceived' life.

This is a very good statement by your T I think (I agree)