[SarahSweden]

I saw my T today after our six weeks break and I kind of know on beforehand that it wouldn´t be such a good meeting. I know that because I often think about my T when she´s away and then my expectations are quite high when we actually meet again.

She did acknowledge that we had been apart but I didn´t comment on that much as I was close to tears about how my own summer has been. Not good that is. So we like entered an old path about me wanting a job but not daring to apply for one and similar. Nothing new.

I also think that the differences between me and my T got more actualised during her vacation even if she hasn´t told me what she has been doing. But as she has a family I of course understand that she hasn´t been at home in her apartment as I have.

It ´s hard to accept even if I understand my T couldn´t be a T is she lived like me with a lot of problems, no money and such.

She said it was nice to see me and that she looked forward to work with me again but that doesn´t mean that much to me as a therapist can even work with clients they don´t like and still put on a positive face.

I don´t think she actually dislikes me but we have nothing in common really and that makes the whole thing unauthentic.

[susannahsays]

I don't understand how having nothing in common makes therapy inauthentic. It would be inauthentic if she was pretending to be your friend, but she's not, she's just being the therapist. I also think your therapist can enjoy working with you even if she doesn't strongly "like" you. You say you don't think she dislikes you, so why shouldn't she? I assume she chose her job for a reason.

I recall in your last post, and maybe others, that there was also this theme of therapy being inauthentic. From my perspective, the feeling of it being inauthentic comes from expectations that it will be like other relationships, which it isn't and shouldn't be. If you can accept the therapy relationship for what it actually is, instead of wishing it was something else (like more mutual, or two sided), I think this issue of authenticity would trouble you less. That's jmo, obviously. It just seems like you've become preoccupied with this problem, which is a real distraction from whatever brought you to therapy in the first place. Either you can accept it for what it is (whether authentic or not) and get what you can from it, or you can choose to focus on a problem with no possible solution.

I hope your next session goes better.

[coolibrarian]

Apart from having a job and family, what else would you like to have in common with your T? If it was easy for you to get a job, relationships, etc., then you might not be seeing T in the first place. So, what is it? Hobbies? Favorite books? I don't mean to sound dismissive or judgmental; forgive me if that's the way I am coming across. But, even if you had hobbies in common, you wouldn't be doing those hobbies together, because she is still your T. It's not like you could go shopping together for hobby supplies, you know? Based on my own experience, and this is only my opinion, I think you are looking for ways to connect more to your T, because when you are feeling depressed, you would like a feeling of a stronger connection/attachment to your T. If you had a job and family, as T does, you might still be wanting that stronger connection. Sure, it could be some envy or jealousy of something T appears to have that you don't, but it could be that T wishes (sometimes) she was single, so she could do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, without so much responsibility placed on her. I'm sorry that your first session after your break was so hard. Even though it hurts, I encourage you to tell T exactly how you felt (about her, about yourself) during the break. And let those tears fall. They aren't doing you any good staying in your head.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I think the feelings of non-authenticity has to do with the fact that a T can technically work with a client whom he/she doesn’t like that much. I mean, they can show a positive face and encourage me even if he/she doesn´t like me. With every other person I wouldn´t share my inner thoughts if he/she kind of liked me to just some extent or perhaps didn´t like me that much.

Also, the question about authenticity is about values I have that she perhaps doesn´t share but she doesn´t tell me as she´s supposed to be supportive. She perhaps supports something she doesn´t like and then it´s not real support one could say.

I accept the fact that me and my therapist can´t be friends, I know therapy would be impossible if so but I find it very hard to accept that I share so many things with a person who can pretend to like me or at least from time to time pretends she supports my values, decisions and such.

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I don't understand how having nothing in common makes therapy inauthentic. It would be inauthentic if she was pretending to be your friend, but she's not, she's just being the therapist. I also think your therapist can enjoy working with you even if she doesn't strongly "like" you. You say you don't think she dislikes you, so why shouldn't she? I assume she chose her job for a reason.

I recall in your last post, and maybe others, that there was also this theme of therapy being inauthentic. From my perspective, the feeling of it being inauthentic comes from expectations that it will be like other relationships, which it isn't and shouldn't be. If you can accept the therapy relationship for what it actually is, instead of wishing it was something else (like more mutual, or two sided), I think this issue of authenticity would trouble you less. That's jmo, obviously. It just seems like you've become preoccupied with this problem, which is a real distraction from whatever brought you to therapy in the first place. Either you can accept it for what it is (whether authentic or not) and get what you can from it, or you can choose to focus on a problem with no possible solution.

I hope your next session goes better.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks, good questions. It´s more like knowing that I´m on the same social and income level, like having a job, having a partner, being able to travel. Even if it would be fun knowing we shared some interest, it´s not those things I foremost think about.

It´s not about wanting to actually do a hobby together, more that I can match up to her, that I would earn a similar wage or more, that I also had had a partner for several years. It might be as you say that she sometimes wishes she could be on her own but naturally she isn´t close to having all my problems even if I don´t think she doesn´t have any problems at all.


Another core in this is the fact that she´s supposed to stay neutral even if she doesn´t share values, she might disapprove of things I´ve done. Then – who is it I talk to?

Originally Posted by coolibrarian

Apart from having a job and family, what else would you like to have in common with your T? If it was easy for you to get a job, relationships, etc., then you might not be seeing T in the first place. So, what is it? Hobbies? Favorite books? I don't mean to sound dismissive or judgmental; forgive me if that's the way I am coming across. But, even if you had hobbies in common, you wouldn't be doing those hobbies together, because she is still your T. It's not like you could go shopping together for hobby supplies, you know? Based on my own experience, and this is only my opinion, I think you are looking for ways to connect more to your T, because when you are feeling depressed, you would like a feeling of a stronger connection/attachment to your T. If you had a job and family, as T does, you might still be wanting that stronger connection. Sure, it could be some envy or jealousy of something T appears to have that you don't, but it could be that T wishes (sometimes) she was single, so she could do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, without so much responsibility placed on her. I'm sorry that your first session after your break was so hard. Even though it hurts, I encourage you to tell T exactly how you felt (about her, about yourself) during the break. And let those tears fall. They aren't doing you any good staying in your head.

[cinnamon_roll]

Sarah, maybe you mix up 'being authentic' with 'being congruent'?
I tend to do that quite a lot, I must admit.

Being congruent in my world means that there are basically no differences between you and your T. Which realistically isn't possible. From what you write, I get the idea that the fact that there are differences for you makes the relationship inauthentic. Which I reckon is not a correct conclusion. A T can be authentic despite differences, and even be authentic in that regard, that they admit they are different in "T-mode" than they would be in private.

Maybe it would be an idea to take a closer look at the fact why you being different from your T (or vice versa) makes you question the quality of the relationship altogether? Maybe there wasn't a lot of room for "differences" when you were growing up in your family. So you never learnt to feel "comfortable" in being 'different'?

[Ididitmyway]

I get the feeling that the real problem here is not your personal differences with her as much as your feeling not completely (or at all) understood by her. If you felt that she really "gets" you, I don't think you would care about the individual differences between you two.

So, it feels to me like you don't feel well understood by her and you ascribe her limited understanding to the individual differences between you two.

In my experience, differences between people in their social and family status and personal beliefs and values do not necessarily create obstacles for understanding each other. There are other factors at play here that determine how much someone can understand you IMO. The main factor is empathy. If the person is willing to empathize with another person they could understand a lot about that person while being very different from them on many levels.

Also, in my experience, therapists who genuinely try to do a good work don't put on the mask of friendliness and positivity when work with clients they don't like. May be in Sweden there is a cultural expectation for them to do so. I don't know. But there is no such requirement here in the US. There is a requirement to behave professionally whether you like a client or not, but that doesn't mean putting on the facade of positivity and friendliness. If a therapist dislikes a client from the beginning, they are actually advised to refer them out to a professional who'd be better suited to help them.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. It´s not so much the differences per se but the fact that I don´t know what my T actually thinks about me, my values and such. I don´t think she completely dislikes me of course but I can´t see how a relationship can be authentic when one of two parts doesn´t share how she looks upon things or what she thinks about those things I mention.

I mean - I might talk to someone who would never want to spend time with me outside therapy if we met as two private persons? To stretch it.

I think I feel the need to know what she actually thinks about me to be able to fully share things but if she told me there would certainly be so many things that I wouldn´t continue to see her. I mean, if she really got into things I´ve said and told me she like doesn´t agree, she thinks some things are foolish or similar.

It´s a very good question on how differences were looked upon within my family. As we spent a lot of time only within family, me and my brother never actually met with people who were a lot different. We didn´t try things that were far from our comfort zone.

I think to me being different from for example my T means she doesn´t like me and I won´t like her either. If one now looks to larger things in life, like economic values and similar. Not what I like to eat and what she might or might not like to eat and such rather small things.

Originally Posted by cinnamon_roll

Sarah, maybe you mix up 'being authentic' with 'being congruent'?
I tend to do that quite a lot, I must admit.

Being congruent in my world means that there are basically no differences between you and your T. Which realistically isn't possible. From what you write, I get the idea that the fact that there are differences for you makes the relationship inauthentic. Which I reckon is not a correct conclusion. A T can be authentic despite differences, and even be authentic in that regard, that they admit they are different in "T-mode" than they would be in private.

Maybe it would be an idea to take a closer look at the fact why you being different from your T (or vice versa) makes you question the quality of the relationship altogether? Maybe there wasn't a lot of room for "differences" when you were growing up in your family. So you never learnt to feel "comfortable" in being 'different'?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I don´t feel completely understood by her and I´ve thought about this for a while and I feel more or less no T would as my social and economical situation is rather rare. I´m almost 40, I have never had a partner, I´ve been unemployed for several years, I´ve lived far away from my family for almost 15 years.


No T:s I´ve met with have had such a problematic background and it´s of course also impossible that my T would be in the same situation as me. Perhaps my T can empathize with it but she has no real experience from living like I do.


I don´t think my T is all a "happy mask" but I´m sure she rather often hides that she doesn´t agree, she has other values than me and to me that´s non-authentic. Even if I understand a T can´t be judgemental and talk about his/her own values, opinions and such.

But I don´t know whom I meet or whom I talk to as she can´t/won´t be completely genuine with me. She wants me to be though, like encouraging me to dare to cry and such.

When feeling like this I almost feel like end it with her and not seek therapy anymore as the differences will be there with a new T as well.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I get the feeling that the real problem here is not your personal differences with her as much as your feeling not completely (or at all) understood by her. If you felt that she really "gets" you, I don't think you would care about the individual differences between you two.

So, it feels to me like you don't feel well understood by her and you ascribe her limited understanding to the individual differences between you two.

In my experience, differences between people in their social and family status and personal beliefs and values do not necessarily create obstacles for understanding each other. There are other factors at play here that determine how much someone can understand you IMO. The main factor is empathy. If the person is willing to empathize with another person they could understand a lot about that person while being very different from them on many levels.

Also, in my experience, therapists who genuinely try to do a good work don't put on the mask of friendliness and positivity when work with clients they don't like. May be in Sweden there is a cultural expectation for them to do so. I don't know. But there is no such requirement here in the US. There is a requirement to behave professionally whether you like a client or not, but that doesn't mean putting on the facade of positivity and friendliness. If a therapist dislikes a client from the beginning, they are actually advised to refer them out to a professional who'd be better suited to help them.

[cinnamon_roll]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

No T:s I´ve met with have had such a problematic background and it´s of course also impossible that my T would be in the same situation as me. Perhaps my T can empathize with it but she has no real experience from living like I do.

Sarah, you seem to say: "I know (understand) that T's situation and life is different, but unless she's walked in my shoes, she cannot really understand how I feel..."

But, basically, no-one has ever been walking in your shoes - but you yourself. And no-one else ever will. Because we are all different. We all have made different experiences, which have formed us. Some were happy. Some were ok. Some were sad. You seem to get stuck at the point that your T needs to have experienced what you are experiencing. In order to be able to help. Which isn't possible (the experience bit), so in your logic, help isn't possible and will never happen. Pretty grim and hopeless this outlook, that's true.

Still, I believe that Ts can help us, nonetheless. Even when they haven't been walking in our shoes. This brings me back to the question of differentiation. Why do you find the thought that your T's life, your T's experiences are different from yours so unsettling? I for my part am quite happy that my T's experiences are different from mine. Cause if she had the same experiences as I do, she'd be pretty messed up, and then I think she wouldn't really be able to handle a lot of the stuff that I bring up, and help me gain a different (!) perspective.

Maybe finding a selfhelp-group in your area would help you to get more out of therapy? Maybe you are looking for the wrong thing (peer support) in the wrong place (individual therapy)? Just a thought that was crossing my mind.

best wishes, c_r

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. It´s not so much the differences per se but the fact that I don´t know what my T actually thinks about me, my values and such. I don´t think she completely dislikes me of course but I can´t see how a relationship can be authentic when one of two parts doesn´t share how she looks upon things or what she thinks about those things I mention.

Sarah, what others think of you is really none of your business. I know that sounds harsh, but really, what's going on in T's mind is for T and no one else, unless and until she wants to share with them.

The t relationship is not like a friendship. It is one-sided: she gets to know more about you than you get to know about her, because IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU. You are not there to give her advise, share her problems, etc. It's about you and your problems and issues.

It's also about learning new skills, which for you, based on another answer you gave in this thread, means some social skills for making and keeping friends. I have a question for you: how is your brother doing? Does he have similar issues to you? Kram.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

She said it was nice to see me and that she looked forward to work with me again but that doesn´t mean that much to me as a therapist can even work with clients they don´t like and still put on a positive face.

This seems to me that it's really about you and not your therapist. As someone who has worked for a long time with people and who likes working with people, it's not very common for me to dislike individuals. In therapy, if you've got someone willing to be vulnerable enough to come sit on the couch or whatever and talk about themselves, what would be hard is to find much fault in that. So I think it's not that therapists dislike people and work with them anyway, but that the job pulls for their strengths in enjoying different kinds of people and talking to them. Not everyone likes people or likes talking to people and I would bet that people like that don't choose to be therapists.

The same is true with other occupations like teachers. Most teachers I've meant really like children and talking to children and being around children, whereas many of us would rather grind stones in a quarry rather than try to get a group of kids to focus.

One of the things that has been most useful for me in therapy is to take things at face value, to be able to experience the positive connection in therapy in the moment. To take things as they are, rather than seeing everything as a scam or a trick or the other person with some hidden or ulterior motive. In my life, that's translated to having relationships that are more joyful and fun. Living in the present with negativity in the back of my mind did little for me besides extract the good out of what was happening.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I think the differences between us makes me feel that she can´t be autenthic but the understanding she shows comes from technique, not so much from empathy. I feel my T is good at asking questions and try to see things in different ways but often that´s not what I look for.


I want someone who foremost empathizes and understands and then if she gets my situation we might look upon new strategies of thinking and such. I think I feel she misses the empathy bit too much.

I like the one on one sessions, I don´t want a whole group to engage in as groups aren´t so specialised on as specific issues as mine.

Originally Posted by cinnamon_roll

Sarah, you seem to say: "I know (understand) that T's situation and life is different, but unless she's walked in my shoes, she cannot really understand how I feel..."

But, basically, no-one has ever been walking in your shoes - but you yourself. And no-one else ever will. Because we are all different. We all have made different experiences, which have formed us. Some were happy. Some were ok. Some were sad. You seem to get stuck at the point that your T needs to have experienced what you are experiencing. In order to be able to help. Which isn't possible (the experience bit), so in your logic, help isn't possible and will never happen. Pretty grim and hopeless this outlook, that's true.

Still, I believe that Ts can help us, nonetheless. Even when they haven't been walking in our shoes. This brings me back to the question of differentiation. Why do you find the thought that your T's life, your T's experiences are different from yours so unsettling? I for my part am quite happy that my T's experiences are different from mine. Cause if she had the same experiences as I do, she'd be pretty messed up, and then I think she wouldn't really be able to handle a lot of the stuff that I bring up, and help me gain a different (!) perspective.

Maybe finding a selfhelp-group in your area would help you to get more out of therapy? Maybe you are looking for the wrong thing (peer support) in the wrong place (individual therapy)? Just a thought that was crossing my mind.

best wishes, c_r