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#101
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Intellectualization did keep me together when i was experiencing emotional flooding, so it wasn't merely a curiosity but it worked in a positive way. You and I are much different in those regards-I've heavily in my emotions (but use isolation), but it's not balanced. And although I'm a very analytical person, it seems to be one or the other. Therapy has helped integrate... Having an observing ego is good and even necessary to tolerate psychoanalytic therapy, I believe. If you didn't have that, everything would be egosyntonic, where you'd have no awareness. But I think as a defense, intellectualization can have an adverse affect on one day to day in terms of being mindful. It can keep people as an observer of life rather than living in it, similar to depersonalization. So for those prone, analytic therapy can worsen that. You can talk about the transference rather than 'be in it' in terms of therapeutic space. I think this is the other side of the coin of being overly emotional. Being an observer and not participant in the world around them is a schizoid trait that is accompanied by anhedonia, lack of motivation/procrastination, flat affect, and detachment. Loosening up defenses so one is in an emotional mindset more can help with that. A better regulated ego has balance. But I think of defense mechanisms differently than others here, so I won't go on about it. But it's something I have a deep interest in because it impacts the way your whole mind works, sense of self, and how you relate to others. |
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TeaVicar?, Waterloo12345
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#102
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I really doubt that I would ever be able to truly be emotional with a therapist due to the imbalanced and limited structure of therapy. I think the max I could use it is for consultation about specific issues. But I can use ordinary, everyday 3D world (in person) relationships very well for complex experiences, especially people I respect a lot and have a close relationship with. So that's how I do it. It would also never work much online - again, because of its limitations. Thanks again for your thoughts, I very much appreciate it |
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Bill3, here today, TeaVicar?
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#103
"Patients who manage to organise non-stop psychotherapy for themselves, year after year replacing one therapist after the other without a break, who even have a number of concurrent therapies at various stages so that they are hardly ever without therapy, learn a lot about psychotherapy, but only to defeat its very purpose. They themselves have no intention whatsoever of changing. They are professional patients. Briefly, they use psychotherapy itself to defend against change. The more disturbed ones, may fantasise or even attempt to become psychotherapists themselves. If they are lucky, they will be rejected by the training institution. If not, they will join the ranks of those bad therapists, who are well-versed in theory, but who have distorted attitudes, a tendency to intellectualise, and who are unable to work in the here-and-now, or make therapeutic use of transference and their own countertransference."
----- While this is particularly aggressive, arrogant, judgmental, condescending, entitled, and creepy... I think it is still typical therapist attitude. People hate generalizations about therapists, but I think the above paragraph is further evidence that therapists as a group are low awareness creatures. It's easy to castigate clients for becoming addicts, but how often do you see one of these cranks acknowledging their own role in that process? Never. Instead they argue that the process that gives rise to addiction and trauma repetition and abandonment panic is the very same process the client should trust as the path to enlightenment. I wouldn't sit alone in a room with this person if you paid me. Ironically these aggressive ones often seem most insistent about trusting them to steer you thru a "corrective" life experience. Also the author mindlessly references standard therapy dogma... resistance to change, transference, "bad" therapists. |
koru_kiwi, Taylor27
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#104
I do regret even posting that article! He does sound like an A$$hole.
But it seemed to fit the topic and it led me to question my own motivations to continue therapy. I don't 'need' it any longer since I've done the hardest part already, though I know I will keep benefiting. I have dependency issues and am wondering if that's part of why I want to keep going when I can use the money for other things. Hmm. |
here today, koru_kiwi, TeaVicar?
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#105
A question, if you will -- how do you "know" you will keep benefiting? In what ways do you think/feel you can still benefit? Could you, perhaps, get those benefits in other ways?
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koru_kiwi
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Always in This Twilight
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#106
Quote:
I mentioned some stuff from the article to my T today, and he agreed with your A$$hole assessment! And said he didn't agree with that about longer-term therapy. |
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#107
Quote:
I can relate to a lot of what you have written. __________________ "It is a joy to be hidden but a disaster not to be found." D.W. Winnicott |
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#108
Quote:
__________________ "It is a joy to be hidden but a disaster not to be found." D.W. Winnicott |
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koru_kiwi
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#109
Based on my understanding of the research on health interventions and outcomes, odds are high that improved or normalized quality of life while in long term therapy is a case of regression to the mean. Could also be due to simple intangibles like feeling less lonely or more supported.
What's seemingly least likely are the convoluted or nonsensical narratives that therapists favor (e.g. the client's "infantile transference neurosis" was successfully treated). I guess this justifies the high fees and makes therapists feel special (which seem to be the twin aims of the system). Also, seems many people who report long term benefit are still in therapy. What happens after termination, which seems to destroy some people? Or if termination never comes, does that mean "working thru" transference is a process without end? |
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#110
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Veteran Member
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#111
Quote:
personally, i always thought the point of most therapies was to get one to the point to where they no longer needed the support or assistance of a therapist. similar to a child growing up and going out into the world. i deeply love and cherish my children, and have watched them grow from infant-hood to young adults now. nothing brings me more satisfaction and makes me happier then to know that my job as a parent is almost complete. well, a parents job is never over, but at least i can say i have been with them along the way and watched them grow up into mature adults who i am confident are ready to venture out into the wide world with out me constantly having to hold their hand. i would hope a Ts motivation would be similar. honestly, as much as i love my kids, i want them to succeed and not have to move back home. i do question the motivation of some therapist who are happy to keep a client long term (10 years plus) and do start to wonder if that is more about the T and their needs instead of the clients needs. |
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BudFox, here today
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#112
As one client, I would say that during a long therapy, I never experienced an on-going need for a T to hold my hand. I never experienced extreme dependency, nor did my T in any way encourage such dependency. A long-term therapy is not inherently a dysfunctional therapy, nor does it necessarily reflect any significant diagnosis.
And while I have recently been seeing a different T, after 20+ yrs since termination of my first experience, it is for very different reasons having no connection to the former therapy. I would not even characterize this experience as being "in therapy," but rather, as consulting a therapist. |
Anne2.0, here today, koru_kiwi, LonesomeTonight, Rive.
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#113
I was in long-term therapy (10 years) and also never experienced my therapist as hand-holding nor did I experience dependency that made my therapy dysfunctional or laden with transference issues. My therapist always had an end in mind and we worked toward that end so that when my goals were reached, ending therapy was not at all difficult nor was it traumatic or damaging; it was a very natural and positive ending, and I have done extremely well since leaving my therapy nearly 6 years ago.
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Anne2.0, feralkittymom, here today, koru_kiwi, LonesomeTonight, Rive., Taylor27
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#114
I am still in therapy, slowly wrapping things up. I don't see it as "transference not worked through". What a silly thought. For now I benefit from still going, it is a way of self care, not a sign of transference or dependancy. I benefit from discussing my issues and history with a professional, and as long as one finds it does good, I can't see where the problem is. In a way it is like gym or hairdresser for someone else. Something that improves the quality of life.
Last edited by elisewin; Dec 08, 2018 at 03:53 AM.. |
Anne2.0, ArtleyWilkins, feralkittymom, here today, koru_kiwi, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123, unaluna
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#115
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Grand Magnate
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#116
It's really interesting reading people's different experiences and emotional reactions to therapy. Several years ago it helped me a lot to read about other people's negative reactions to therapy because I was struggling a lot with my own, and thought the negative reactions in me were "unacceptable" -- as, perhaps they were somewhat in their intensity and in their compartmentalization. Factors that might have been addressed in a "good" therapy -- but how could I, as I was at the time, understand or recognize that on my own? I couldn't/didn't. Reading other people's experiences and opinions about therapy helped me a lot.
I just got the book "The Betrayal Bond" mentioned in another thread, and wow, does it help explain things to me. I was in therapy for a long time. My last therapist bailed. I/we got (close) to the nugget of my stuff and she bailed. It was too close to her unresolved stuff apparently, and hence "ethical" for her to terminate. What else could she do? She couldn't do what she couldn't do. But what a (repeat) betrayal to/for me. It may help to distinguish that it wasn't just a "transference" that was the issue. More like, it became reenactment. The T wasn't fully conscious of her stuff, and couldn't get there, and hence couldn't help me. And I was traumatically bonded to her, and to the idea of therapy as help for my problems. A very negative, and hurtful, experience. |
Bill3, koru_kiwi, LonesomeTonight
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elisewin, koru_kiwi, LonesomeTonight
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#117
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koru_kiwi
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#118
My post had morphed into a whole new animal.
__________________ When a child’s emotional needs are not met and a child is repeatedly hurt and abused, this deeply and profoundly affects the child’s development. Wanting those unmet childhood needs in adulthood. Looking for safety, protection, being cherished and loved can often be normal unmet needs in childhood, and the survivor searches for these in other adults. This can be where survivors search for mother and father figures. Transference issues in counseling can occur and this is normal for childhood abuse survivors. |
Bill3
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#119
Just in the sense I'm always learning and growing and will use therapy to support it.
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#120
No, not at all. Therapy served its purpose, quite successfully. My therapy wasn't about him. I like the man a great deal, but once my therapy was no longer needed, I also no longer needed him. He served a very functional purpose for a long time, but he no longer serves that purpose; thus, I've moved on. I run into him from time to time in stores, etc., but he's kind of like that old coworker you used to work with in your last job. You liked them well enough, but you've both moved on to other jobs. You're surprised and pleased to run into each other from time to time, but you catch up for a few minutes and go back to your shopping. LOL.
Last edited by ArtleyWilkins; Dec 08, 2018 at 10:53 AM.. |
Bill3, here today, koru_kiwi
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