[Lrad123]

I’ve had negative transference towards my T for a while now. I’d really like those warm & fuzzy feelings now and then, but just can’t seem to get them, at least for very long. Sadly, this has probably been going on for close to a year.

During my last session we talked about increasing to twice/week or possibly stopping this type of therapy as possible options. I’m doing psychodynamic therapy and I’m motivated to keep going, but I can’t help being frustrated and angry with my T much of the time. I can’t tell you how much I wish I could get past that because while I’m frustrated with him, I also like him. I get frustrated when things get stirred up in session and then I’m left to deal with things on my own for an entire week and I take it out on him. This pattern keeps repeating. T mentioned that we might be reenacting something from my childhood which sort of makes sense. Unfortunately it looks like we’re headed for the same ending.

Because of my work schedule I just can’t do twice/week with him even though I’d like to. He says he’ll keep seeing me if I choose, but thinks the negative transference will persist at once/week. I’m mourning the idea that the right choice might be to stop seeing this T. Despite the negative transference, I’m sad about it.

I also know that change is hard, but sometimes things work out for the best. I asked for names of other psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapist and he gave me a few names, suggesting that I see a female T. I’ve made an appointment with one of them, but am feeling panicky about what it all means. Part of me really doesn’t want to leave my T.

I’m wondering if others have had negative transference and what they’ve done about it? If I have it with one therapist I wonder if it’s likely that I’ll have it with another? Is there any hope for me to stay with my current T? Any thoughts would be helpful.

[feileacan]

I had a long period of negative transference (2+ years) and I can say from my experience that it is possible to come through it. However, I can't imagine that it would have happened with the frequency of 1/week and in that sense I agree with your T that this frequency is probably not enough to effectively work with the stuff you are currently facing.

I have changed therapists once because I was temporarily relocating. Actually, for me this change speeded up some process because with this other therapist the negative transference really started. I went to him for the first time and discovered that although I don't know him at all, I felt somehow hostile to him. And when I came back to my T, things became really negative because now my own T felt totally inadequate compared to the T I had seen temporarily meanwhile.

Anyway, my point is that changing therapists might not be necessarily bad, assuming you will find someone who is good. At the same time, these negative feelings and overwhelming emotions better come out, even if it feels really bad at the moment, because they probably hinder you a lot in your real life (force you to be a nice person, put nice mask on, not really being yourself) and I'm not sure another T can do this work effectively with 1/week sessions either.

[here today]

Originally Posted by feileacan

I had a long period of negative transference (2+ years) and I can say from my experience that it is possible to come through it. However, I can't imagine that it would have happened with the frequency of 1/week and in that sense I agree with your T that this frequency is probably not enough to effectively work with the stuff you are currently facing.

I have changed therapists once because I was temporarily relocating. Actually, for me this change speeded up some process because with this other therapist the negative transference really started. I went to him for the first time and discovered that although I don't know him at all, I felt somehow hostile to him. And when I came back to my T, things became really negative because now my own T felt totally inadequate compared to the T I had seen temporarily meanwhile.

Anyway, my point is that changing therapists might not be necessarily bad, assuming you will find someone who is good. At the same time, these negative feelings and overwhelming emotions better come out, even if it feels really bad at the moment, because they probably hinder you a lot in your real life (force you to be a nice person, put nice mask on, not really being yourself) and I'm not sure another T can do this work effectively with 1/week sessions either.

Thanks a lot, feileacan.

After many, many therapists over many, many years, my negative emotions did come out with my last T but she "did not have the emotional resources" to continue! She was primarily a trauma therapist with some psychodynamic training, and she did some consultation with a self psychologist at one point along the way. And I only saw her once a week, although we did double sessions for awhile.

From my experience, this stuff is dynamite, and over many years I saw too many T's who didn't have the strength or training or whatever to contain it. On the other hand, I have no real life -- caught between being the nice person who follows the rules and the roles (the mask) or this hostile, negative "real" self.

I'm really glad to hear that you have gotten through it! I can and do use my intellectual side -- my "adult", to use a term from another thread -- to try to help with understanding, processing, etc. But there is not a clear guide for clients, and -- from my experience -- not a lot of T's who are capable of helping. Or, clients who can afford 4 times a week for . . .how long?

I've often wanted, and wondered, if it might not be possible to follow the path somewhat, although every person and experience is unique, of someone who has made it through.

Any thoughts along those lines?

[Waterloo12345]

I've had very similar negative transference for my t for a year now. It ebbs and flows. We have a 'prickly' relationship- her word.

At the moment it's in full flow due to the holiday break and I've acted out, told her I hated her, that her methods are too harsh etc.

She's like you need someone to rail against who is consistent, holds the boundaries and that's ok.

That she recognises I have to keep her at arms length as if not she'd be a person to whom I'd have to acknowkedge feels, (imagine what that would do with the abandonment) and that she has loving and caring feelings to me and will always hold me in mind.

We still do good work though or at least I'm making progress in baby baby steps.

I see her 3x a week for 3 months now. We just decided to continue that because she says it provides 'containment', allows a story arc to develop, get heard, get resolved all at once.

Perhaps that is what allows the progress. I prefer it because I can deal with things immediately and I'm.not afraid to try and delve into something big at the end of the 1st or 2nd session cause I know the third is there to close things off.

Of course I still have loads of wobbles and write emails etc so theory and practice ate not always congruent!

To add: I've not felt negative transference for for any one else. Also am deep in positive transference for my doc. So I think it depends on the individual and just because you had it with one does not necessarily mean you'd have it with another.

That said, it may be the way in which your issues come out since there seems to be a pattern so....Perhaps it will reoccur.

[Ididitmyway]

I don't consider my negative feelings for my therapists a negative transference. They were normal reactions to the things they were doing that weren't helpful and to the fact that they were refusing to own their part of the work.

So, the feelings were triggered by something that was objectively wrong, but the expressions of those feelings had some transference dynamics to it that had their roots in the past. I certainly didn't express my anger in the most constructive way possible, but all that was preventable. It didn't have to get to the point of such intensity if the Ts were honest and courageous enough to see the real problem and to address it in real time.

When negativity reaches a certain point of intensity and the T drops the ball, there is nothing you can do about it. For me, that was always the beginning of the end. I felt it made no sense to keep putting myself in the situation where I get triggered and to keep paying for feeling worse and worse for the sake of "working through" it. After struggling with this for some time, I would always leave the situation and find a new T.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by here today

But there is not a clear guide for clients, and -- from my experience -- not a lot of T's who are capable of helping. Or, clients who can afford 4 times a week for . . .how long?

I've often wanted, and wondered, if it might not be possible to follow the path somewhat, although every person and experience is unique, of someone who has made it through.

Any thoughts along those lines?

I don't think it necessarily has to be 4 times a week for years. I suppose it really depends on the specific person and specific therapist dyad. I saw the temporary T 2/week and although I would have certainly wanted to see him more often, this frequency was in fact enough. It could be that there are periods when more sessions per week are needed to contain the emotions that are stirred up in therapy but if the T manages to offer good enough containment then after a while dynamics can change and such frequency/intensity is perhaps not necessary anymore.

Yes, I still go 4 times per week because this is psychoanalysis, I want to do it and I can afford it. However, if I don't need this frequency for containing my emotions at this point anymore. The work is different now.

And of course there is no guide for clients. I can't even imagine how there could be? Precisely because no one knows what will be uncovered until it is uncovered. It's a little bit like archeology, I guess. You find something that perhaps no one has ever found before and now you have to figure out what to do with this finding. A good T to my mind is not someone who knows how to do stuff or what you might/should/are expected to uncover but the one who has a sense about and trust in the process, who is reasonably stable himself and who is able to accompany the patient during the excavation works without freaking out from the potential findings. The only real guide a T can have is some theory (all of which are incomplete, inadequate and faulty anyway) but that offers at least some basis but that's quite it. I don't really know what else to say.

[elisewin]

How do you know it is "transference" and not your personalities just not working well together or you not agreeing to things he does? I'm just curious as I don't call my feelings transference, but something that has explanation in here and now mostly.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by elisewin

How do you know it is "transference" and not your personalities just not working well together or you not agreeing to things he does? I'm just curious as I don't call my feelings transference, but something that has explanation in here and now mostly.

For me it's partly because my emotional reaction to whatever is the catalyst is disproportionate or there really is no catalyst or trigger, am just reacting, and so the question is why? When we explore that it may come to light that it is transference.

Other times it has just been me not agreeing and I've also raised the personality point albeit obliquely. But there is little in her reactions or personality that deserves hate or truculent behaviour, or a failure to believe she'll return etc.

For me there is generally a surface explanation in the hear and now but sometimes digging deeper there's more and sometimes there isn't.

E.g. now I come to thibk about it there is a part of me thatch let out v v v infrequently that is positively attached to her. So it's not absolute.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by elisewin

How do you know it is "transference" and not your personalities just not working well together or you not agreeing to things he does? I'm just curious as I don't call my feelings transference, but something that has explanation in here and now mostly.

Well, I personally have very strong intuition and I am confident that I would have just known if it was our personalities not working well. I'm not a people pleaser in that sense. I've had no problems to cut off my own mother and father because I felt that they haven't been parents to me and as our personalities do not match and I don't really like them then there's really no reason for me to continue to have relationship with them.

As for not agreeing to the things he did - there is/was nothing like that. My T has always been there, trying to support me as well as he can. While I was not actively hostile to him (in session) or emotionally dysregulated (normally out of session) I could clearly see that he is doing for me something that I could have never hoped that anyone will ever do for me.

[Lrad123]

I was hoping that the simple act of meeting with a new therapist and discussing this option with my current T would jolt me into dropping the negative transference. I do already feel like something has already changed just with having this as a possibility. Thoughts?

I definitely think it's worth exploring a different therapist (or more) a bit and see if you have similar reactions and if what you experience is transference at all. For me, I had negative reactions to my first T in the end that I'd never experienced with my second T or with anyone else, unless the person has similar patterns of behavior. Yet, I can't say it is transference (there is nothing in my par past that was similar), more that I just really dislike certain personalities and attitudes and tend to clash with them strongly. But it is not really something I would want to "work on" - it is only beneficial for me to recognize and stay away from those types of incompatible (with me) people once it has become clear, there is no benefit for anyone, only stress and ugly fights. I would always think about what the purpose and potential benefit of diving into such negative interpersonal dynamic could be before continuing it. For example, do you tend to experience similar in your everyday life/relationships or is it only in the highly unnatural and limited format of therapy? I think seeing them more than once a week is meant to make it less limited but making one's life to revolve around therapy and the interactions with the T is something that may be worth weighing in the context of how it might affect the client's life in general. I know some might say how would you know before doing it but doing at least some cost/benefit analysis is not a bad idea.

[Anne2.0]

If I were you, I'd be interested in learning what the transference is about, the "something" that is the subject of the something re enacted from childhood. For me the biggest frustrations of therapy always involved my inability to make sense of the feelings and cognitions swirling around, even after identifying the overreaction (my word for transference) that led to them. "It has to make sense, and it doesn't!" I'd hurl at my T while he sat there, smug with what I believed was the key bit of knowledge he was withholding from me. In my inner world, things are layered and symbolic, and some of the tiniest details in the dynamics of messed-up childhood events and my child-thinking or understanding them could be at the root. There were fewer "aha" moments and more like "hmm."

I think your transference does make sense, because if the person I hired to help me refused to do something I know helps, that would be upsetting. Even with the rational or wise mind comprehending he believes this isn't the best thing or just isn't something he's willing to do, there's obviously a lot more to your story. And if I couldn't get to that story with this person, I would look for someone else who can keep the hounds at bay while I explore all the nooks and crannies of what this is about.

The other things I'd be interested in doing is making containment a part of therapy sessions when you're having trouble in the way you are. For me it works to do a symbolic putting-it-away at the end of session, and my T and I also decided it would be okay for me to call (it's the me who needed convincing) if I needed this kind of help later in the week. In the most intense of times, I would do that occasionally, and talking on the phone was really helpful. And I learned to ramp up my self care, which I think builds the muscle of emotion tolerance and that helped over time too. But there are a bajillion things to try in session as "containment," and maybe you and your T have tried them and they don't work. To me, the desire for an email response from him is a symptom of a lack of containment, so rather than a band-aid approach, dealing with what causes things to spill out in such dysfunctional ways might be more effective. If I were looking for a new therapist, this is what I would focus on in interviewing new ones-- how could you help me contain things to the therapy session, or how could you help me between sessions?

Like most decisions, there is hardly a right and wrong answer, but I think it's a good sign you're open to exploring your options. I hope it goes well for you.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I was hoping that the simple act of meeting with a new therapist and discussing this option with my current T would jolt me into dropping the negative transference. I do already feel like something has already changed just with having this as a possibility. Thoughts?

How do you experience and deal with negative feelings toward other people? Do you cut them off, ignore them, act them out, etc.? If so, then it may be more than just "negative transference", seems to me. It may not be something that you can "drop". Those negative feelings might be telling you something, about him and your relationship as well as yourself.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by here today

How do you experience and deal with negative feelings toward other people? Do you cut them off, ignore them, act them out, etc.? If so, then it may be more than just "negative transference", seems to me. It may not be something that you can "drop". Those negative feelings might be telling you something, about him and your relationship as well as yourself.

I don’t tend to have much in the way of negative feelings towards many people. I think most people who are my friends, family or coworkers or whatever would say I’m nice and even-keeled. However, with my T I have been quite different so I assume it’s transference. I’ve recently sent him an email saying “F U” and just because I’m pretty sure he’s not fond of CBT, I’ve told him I think I might leave and try CBT. All of this and more to get under his skin. It’s really out of character for me which makes me assume it’s negative transference. He’s very patient, empathetic and thoughtful and has done absolutely nothing to deserve my reactions.

Your T seems to work like mine does.

I had a good deal of negative transference but later realized some of it was related to DID instead. My T changed the way he works just a little, and it made a huge difference. He said he was not used to working with clients with my trauma history.

I feel this approach, psychoanalytic, is the most transformational therapy and am glad I stayed with him. I've been to a number of other Ts who just don't compare, although I'm sure they had some beneficial qualities too.

I like your T. Although I'm unsure if it will help, one thing I can recommend, if you are interested, it to try to keep your observing ego intact while interacting with him and reflecting on it. Understanding the feelings may be feelings from the past. Another way to look at it is the transference is sort of a play space to explore. I've found that to be key to 'surviving' psychoanalytic therapy while only meeting 1 day a week. My T, like yours, also suggested I go 2 days per week. It's tough, but with some minor adjustments, it can be done.

Although you really have a solid T, it may be worth trying another. Although you do risk not knowing if down the road you will end up where you are now in time. However, it's likely you could go back to this T if you changed your mind.

Good luck to you.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I don’t tend to have much in the way of negative feelings towards many people. I think most people who are my friends, family or coworkers or whatever would say I’m nice and even-keeled. However, with my T I have been quite different so I assume it’s transference. I’ve recently sent him an email saying “F U” and just because I’m pretty sure he’s not fond of CBT, I’ve told him I think I might leave and try CBT. All of this and more to get under his skin. It’s really out of character for me which makes me assume it’s negative transference. He’s very patient, empathetic and thoughtful and has done absolutely nothing to deserve my reactions.

Have you asked your T whether he thinks it's transference or not?

I'm no professional, just an expert maybe on myself. And so what I think I'm seeing in your posts about you and your T may be projection or something. Nevertheless, what you're describing sounds a lot like what I had -- compartmentalized emotions that were not well integrated and so "I" -- the regular, socialized, adult me -- didn't understand, didn't know how to express them in ordinary (not triggered) conversation, couldn't relate and balance them off with other feelings and perceptions.

As I've said before, many attempts at therapy failed to help me integrate them. Although the reenactment that happened with the last T did activate some long-buried stuff that had "resisted" for decades. Nothing I could have consciously done about that, despite my best efforts -- but when it broke through it was nevertheless very disorienting. I did not go to another therapist -- I was so virulently angry and vengeful at the many failures of the profession that I did not trust any of them. Still don't. It wasn't (just) transference, at that point, it was legitimate (I believe) anger and rage at what I still believe was a real betrayal by the profession. But apparently not everybody gets betrayed, so maybe you will luck out.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by here today

Have you asked your T whether he thinks it's transference or not?

He is the one who brought up the term negative transference when we last met, so I assume that’s what it is. Not sure I understand the distinction you make between transference and projection. Whatever is going on most definitely feels compartmentalized though. The context for me is that something is triggered for me in session that makes me feel something strongly shortly after our session, and then I’m angry at him for allowing that to happen and leaving me alone to deal with it for the week.

I had negative transference towards my first T1 (male), (who is also my long term psychiatrist as well). I ended up seeing a female T for a while who did a different type of therapy, and kept him as my long term therapist and trauma counselor. They coordinated together.

I eventually stopped seeing the female T because she really didn't have it together, and started seeing a different male for weekly therapy T2. T2 developed an intense crush on me, which shocked me and led to one of many ruptures. I did a first phone call with T1 to talk about that issue, and basically anything negative I used to feel toward him, especially about being misunderstood, all fell away. He's been the 1st and only person to never blame me for the situation with T2. His response in just one phone call was probably the response I've waited for my whole life.

I think a lot of the negative transference I used to have was based on my idea of what he should be, and my inexperience with therapy.

[here today]

I just looked up projection and, actually, I used the word wrong. I was trying to say that even though what you have written about seems to me somewhat similar to me, it may in fact be very different and I know that.

Thanks for the context. That makes sense. Yes, a week does seem a long time to try to deal alone with something like that.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I was hoping that the simple act of meeting with a new therapist and discussing this option with my current T would jolt me into dropping the negative transference. I do already feel like something has already changed just with having this as a possibility. Thoughts?

I do not think your negative transference is likely to be so simply resolved.

As for the rest, as usual, I really question the concept of working through transference. I had been gone from PC for a couple months and recently came back. I am not criticizing you, just making an observation - to me, you seem to be in the same place you were a couple months ago.

So I question the purpose of your therapy and what it is achieving, other than appearing to enrage you to the point where you email "**** you" to your therapist. While some people feel that expressing such anger is healthy and cathartic, I am not so sure. I think that if you usually suppress your anger, the goal is to learn to express it in a healthy way - not to sort of lose control and behave in a way you would not want to translate into your real life. To me, it seems like creating a bad habit instead of learning a new skill.

Maybe starting fresh with a different therapist would be helpful. If suppressed emotion is a concern for you, I think there are better ways of exploring and helping you with that issue than what your current therapist is doing.