[WishfulThinker66]

My friends insisted I link to a course in wellness offered by a fairly major player in the self-help world. This particular course was a seminar in 'mirroring'. As with many of these fad programs it comes at a cost. In my opinion they are no more than short videos and testimonials that fit into the category of motivational speaking. Many I would categorise as in the realm of New Age - not necessarily a bad thing but one ought to be wary. I see many of these programs as no more than ploys to take advantage of the emotionally vulnerable.

Do you know of the type of thing I mean?

I think I would get in trouble mentioning specific programs by name as one could interpret my actions as being slanderous. The one I am thinking of is that of an entire industry created by a woman going back to the 70s. The publishing 'House' has become a large publisher since in the New Age and Self Help genres.

So the thing is, have you ever looked closely enough at such things such as to scrutinize the credibility?

Take a look at what credientals the facilitators possess. More likely than not, THEY DON'T POSSESS ANY! Regarding this course in "Loving Yourself" (via mirroring) only one of the facilitators actually has credentials which would make them a professional in the field of mental health. The rest of the 'practioners' are self described counselors lacking any kind of recognisable academic background.

So before you are so quick to sign up for such a thing, I suggest taking a close look at it. Be wary of where you stick your hard earned money. Not everything out there is on the up and up. Be a questioner not a blind sheep.

Just my opinion here. Just saying.

[stopdog]

I actually do not see these as being "fads" or any more or less suspicious and worthy of wariness than any other therapist or therapy.

[piggy momma]

There are many fads out there, and the mental health field is not exempt from them. There are diets, physical "remedies", cures for cancer, all kinds of quackery. There will always be a vulnerable, desperate population who will invest into these at great risk to themselves.

People need to look at the research, not what the celebs are saying. Is it empirically backed, peer-reviewed, scientifically sound? Some things take time to get to that level...I'm thinking of EMDR. It is gaining traction, but some still think of it as quackery. I haven't done enough current research to formulate a more current opinion on it.

It is unfortunate that it is so easy to prey on the weak and vulnerable, and that people have a hard time advocating for themselves. But it comes down to doing your research, trusting your gut sometimes, advocating for yourself, and knowing yourself. Even credentials aren't enough as a stand alone anymore...there are credentials for everything, and even they have to be thoroughly investigated and questioned.

Good post.

[Taylor27]

There are so many online self help fads out there. Whats even more of a money grab is online coaching there is a person that used to be on tv 12 years ago got herself very famous with her coaching, self help books. The way she advertises is so good to be true that people would get suck in. There are so many people claiming there self help is the cure all for money. Thank you for posting great post

[nottrustin]

T always said to be weary of online self help videos that charged. She did t say not to do it but investigate. Just like many want to know the credentials, track record, etc of s T or whatever else one should know this for online people.

Ts here are required to have their licenses hanging in the office so a client knows they are licensed that is not the case with somebody on line.

[precaryous]

This may be off topic, don’t know if it qualifies as a fad.

Back in the 90’s there was a quasi-famous TV/radio personality psychiatrist in Beverly Hills, California (has passed away) who offered two hour sessions. A person would see him one or two times, that’s it.

He charged $1,000 an hour.

I had seen him on his TV talk show and listened to him on the radio. He seemed like he made common sense.

Previous to this, I had had the very worst in psych care utilizing county mental health plus an exploitative private psychiatrist. I came into a small amount of money and wrongfully believed the more money spent, the better the outcome.

I went to this guy twice. He recorded the session and didn’t have a lot of helpful comments to make in person. Instead, he handed me the audio tape and gave elaborate instructions about going home, listening to the tape and writing down all the negative self-defeating comments I made on 3x5 cards, tape them to a wall in order...and I forget, now, what else I was supposed to do.

Credit my desperation and naivety, but I did it, I tried. The stumbling block I ran into was my depression was so bad I could barely get off the couch, let alone accomplish all of this guy’s instructions.

Insult to injury, some months later the same psychiatrist published a book delineating ALL of these same instructions. The book cost less than $10.00.

My issues wouldn’t have been much better if I had waited and purchased his book but I would have been ahead by $3,990.00.

I have had the most expensive and least expensive mental health care. I later found some practical help somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.

[sarahsweets]

The naturalpath and homeopath industry is booming and yes, most prey on the vunerable but even normally skeptic people fall for it too. I always go back to science. I read sources. I check the sources against other sources. The issue is also that there is a subset of the population that seems to think there is a government conspiracy or big pharma conspiracy to force people to take more and more medicine. I wont say that drug companies are innocent- of course they are a poorly regulated industry with the ability to price things anyway they see fit. But that doesnt mean they have no legitimacy. The beauty of the times we live in is the ability to do our own research. The important thing is to know the source you are reading and know if they have any angles or conflicts of interest. its almost like the anti-vaccine movement. Many cite a debunked theory promoted by a doctor who was found out to be a fraud and who had to retract his own findings. And there is tons of misinformation out there to suit any agenda. its fine to have a healthy suspicion about things in general but the all or nothing approach can be hazardous. The same people who claim big pharma is out to get them are the same people who will ask for an antibiotic for a viral infection. Or pain medication in the hospital. If your loved one had cancer would you be willing to discount the science so readily? So many people are so self serving they are only thinking about themselves and what affects them, and not what harm they could put other people in due to their negligence. Quick aside..I almost fell for it over guardasil, the HPV vaccine. My cousin was in my ear telling me someone she knew had a friend who knew a person that had a horrible reaction to the shot. She made it seem like it would be putting poison into my daughters' body or that it contained mercury. Thank god i thought about it for a hot minute, did my own research and talked with their doctor. Mental health issues have biological causes to back them up. Can people do it without meds and professional help? Sure..but a professional sure makes a better guide and meds can be a lifesaver. Your ship could sink and leave you in the ocean. Sure you can swim but it would be much easier to have a life jacket.

[Anne2.0]

Many of the people who run these kinds of therapeutic programs have written books that they developed their programs from. For a bit of an insider look at one of the most successful (as in made lots of $$), see Netflix's documentary Tony Robbins: I am Not Your Guru. I don't know that I agree with a belief that these programs somehow "prey" upon vulnerable people and just because people pay a lot of money for something doesn't mean they don't get something of value out of it. I think it's a lot harder for someone to convince a consumer to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a 5 day seminar as opposed to $100 session or a fraction of that as a co-pay. I think therapy clients are more easily taken advantage of by regular therapists than these seminar types.

People choose what they spend their money on. If someone wants to take one of these seminars and no one forced them into it, who cares? Likewise, if someone goes to therapy and then complains they didn't get anything out of it, that seems to me like it's on them. Many people do dumb things with their money. I certainly have. But making a bad choice or a choice that is not right for you doesn't mean you were swindled.

[Skeezyks]

There are more scams out there (mental health & otherwise) than the average person can even keep track of...

[stopdog]

Is it a scam if you are helped by it?

[Ididitmyway]

Unfortunately, everything that has to do with the emotional well-being is largely based on belief systems rather than science. But, in truth, a lot of it is connected to spirituality and the dimension that cannot be easily explored scientifically, at least at this time. A lot of the psychiatric "treatments" are no less of a fad than some of the New Age type programs. Just because they are widely accepted by the mainstream public doesn't make them any more legitimate than anything else. All it means is that pharmaceutical industries pay for mass propaganda to convince the public that those "treatments" are based on science.

Charlatans and frauds come in all shapes and forms and in all fields connected to mental health and emotional well-being. All you can do to protect yourself from getting ripped off is just to use your intuition, experience and common sense to determine what is a fad and what can really be helpful, no matter how it is packaged.

I've used services of both traditional and alternative practitioners, and, from experience, I know that the possession of a legitimate professional license is not, in and of itself, a protection from fads just like the absence of a professional training is not, in and of itself, a guarantee of a rip off. I've learned to determine really fast who is the "real deal" and knows what they are doing and who is preying on vulnerable people or just delusional. This skill comes from experience.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Is it a scam if you are helped by it?

that is a great question. i listened to this podcast about a woman, who after something like 12 years, finally left a cult. she of course didn't think of it as one until something shattered her beliefs, but she said she gained a lot of positives from it as well.

that's gotta be tough.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Is it a scam if you are helped by it?

Maybe not, but if it is in the place of sound medical science and the evidence points to treatment that requires more than what you are doing with various remedies then I think it could be harmful.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Unfortunately, everything that has to do with the emotional well-being is largely based on belief systems rather than science. But, in truth, a lot of it is connected to spirituality and the dimension that cannot be easily explored scientifically, at least at this time. A lot of the psychiatric "treatments" are no less of a fad than some of the New Age type programs. Just because they are widely accepted by the mainstream public doesn't make them any more legitimate than anything else. All it means is that pharmaceutical industries pay for mass propaganda to convince the public that those "treatments" are based on science.

What would it require for you to believe the science that pharmacological treatment might work? Just curious.

I agree with those saying that most self help "programs" are based on someone's pet belief or even just a business model they come up with. It is very easy to advertise anything these days and gather followers. I usually do quite extensive research on anything that grabs my interest but don't always look for hard evidence because most often there is none in these endeavors. If I am still interested after the research, just give it a try and see from experience. I would be cautious of any such program that requires people to commit to them from start, pay a larger amount of money etc. But if I can just try it out a little and then decide whether it's worth my time and money, why not? Many people get easily manipulated by fads and get hooked for that reason, not because it is helpful. So I think it is always good to remain cautious and skeptical and not to give in to sales strategies or charisma alone. IMO, even traditional psychotherapy is largely an obscure, unfounded form of "treatment"... so if one trusts that, why not other self help forms that look appealing?

I don't think these types of things are any more exploitative then traditional health care, alternative healthcare, therapy.

The alternative people sell magnets as a treatment. It's disappointing to see health stores or other retailers sell these.

I've paid traditional doctors to address an issue more than one time, but they did not do their job yet they collected my money. I had to pay for the same service again.That is a rip off. And if you read your insurance statements, you might find that you are seen by a nurse practitioner but charged the fee for the doctor who you never even talked with or was involved in your treatment.

I have a friend who worked for a reputable and legitimate appearing physical therapy clinic. Shortly after starting she learned of the incentive which was to keep the patients coming back and not treat their issue. Instead, they were told by management to do symptomatic relief only and evaluated according to frequency of patient visits. New the profession, she found out that is not an isolated incident.

There's no clear evidence that TMS works, yet doctors charge $10,000. This is one of the more exploitive ones I've seen. Patients are cherry picked and during the studies, patients discontinue their medications, and analysis excludes patients who dropped out of the study. Where it does exist, I do not consider evidence from those studies to be valid.

Just because people cite 'the research' as evidence does not mean there is any validity to it. That is the most exploitative when compared with someone who advertises themselves as some sort of motivator or spiritual advisor admitting they have no credentials. It's really upfront and center, so if you are duped by that, that's on you. All the deception in the mainstream is what concerns me because people are expecting legitimate treatment when they go to someone who is credentialed.

I can go on about this. It doesn't seem like people are aware of the exploitation going on every day. That happens when health services are treated as a commodity in the free market.

Likewise, if someone goes to therapy and then complains they didn't get anything out of it, that seems to me like it's on them.

Generalists send patients to therapy as a treatment for clinical diagnoses, so I don't understand how this is on the client.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by octoberful

I've paid traditional doctors to address an issue more than one time, but they did not do their job yet they collected my money. I had to pay for the same service again.That is a rip off. And if you read your insurance statements, you might find that you are seen by a nurse practitioner but charged the fee for the doctor who you never even talked with or was involved in your treatment.

The difference is when you pay a doctor or NP you are paying for their time and expertise and doing so because they had XXX years of med school and XXX years of training with an active practice. You are not paying for a cure. If you do not like what a doctor has done with you, you get a second opinion. The fad stuff is like paying for the cure or treatment before even testing it out. In cases where its expensive you pay up front and hope for the best. You do not know what training they got. And many times the training is a certificate program that is one of those places where you can practically buy a credential without having to actually receive any training. So paying alot from your friend Mary who sells vitamins is just.. paying mary to give you a product that is something she bought to sell. I am not trying to say ANYTHING 'natural' or homeopathic is wrong. I am just saying that putting a lot of money out on something from someone who is not trained to diagnose or treat the issue is risky at best.

I have a friend who worked for a reputable and legitimate appearing physical therapy clinic. Shortly after starting she learned of the incentive which was to keep the patients coming back and not treat their issue. Instead, they were told by management to do symptomatic relief only and evaluated according to frequency of patient visits. New the profession, she found out that is not an isolated incident.

Did your friend report this to the: medical board, insurance agency, consumer affairs division, attorney general etc? Whoever oversees that PT office needs to be notified. Its one thing to say that sort of thing happens in your office or practice-anyone can say something like that with only having a suspicion about it actually being true. But if this friend has actual proof that this went on then it is their responsibility to report it. Otherwise its almost like being complicit.

Just because people cite 'the research' as evidence does not mean there is any validity to it. That is the most exploitative when compared with someone who advertises themselves as some sort of motivator or spiritual advisor admitting they have no credentials. It's really upfront and center, so if you are duped by that, that's on you. All the deception in the mainstream is what concerns me because people are expecting legitimate treatment when they go to someone who is credentialed.

Can you elaborate on this more so I can understand better?

No she didn't report it out of fear it would harm her career.

The difference is when you pay a doctor or NP you are paying for their time and expertise and doing so because they had XXX years of med school and XXX years of training with an active practice

Untrue. I'm paying for a service. If I consult with a doctor to evaluate a new problem, then I'm paying for the evaluation. If the doctor doesn't evaluate the problem or does it inadequately (eg not taking a history) they still get paid.

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Many of the people who run these kinds of therapeutic programs have written books that they developed their programs from. For a bit of an insider look at one of the most successful (as in made lots of $$), see Netflix's documentary Tony Robbins: I am Not Your Guru. I don't know that I agree with a belief that these programs somehow "prey" upon vulnerable people and just because people pay a lot of money for something doesn't mean they don't get something of value out of it. I think it's a lot harder for someone to convince a consumer to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a 5 day seminar as opposed to $100 session or a fraction of that as a co-pay. I think therapy clients are more easily taken advantage of by regular therapists than these seminar types.

People choose what they spend their money on. If someone wants to take one of these seminars and no one forced them into it, who cares? Likewise, if someone goes to therapy and then complains they didn't get anything out of it, that seems to me like it's on them. Many people do dumb things with their money. I certainly have. But making a bad choice or a choice that is not right for you doesn't mean you were swindled.

Just wanted to share: In my case, above, I don’t feel I was swindled. They weren’t out to con me. They didn’t lie about anything. They provided the service they offered. I was naive and desperate. It was stupid of me to go there twice.

I hope I help someone by sharing my experiences.
I hope no one does what I did.