I just sent a termination email

Yeah this sounds about right. I don’t feel like I have really needed this so much from others in my life or maybe it didn’t occur to me that being heard was an option. I remember one of the first emails my T sent a while ago. He said a few things and then ended with, “I also wanted to let you know that I am here,” and that felt so incredibly powerful for me. I’m not even sure what he meant by that, but it can almost make me tear up to read even now. So maybe I just want to be reminded that he’s there on an emotional level and that I’m not in this by myself.

T used. The onion analogy.

Psychnp uses kool-aid. Our experiences are all the particles. When we had them to water they so not talk very good. The mere we work and stir the better it becomea.

Not sure where to put this post, but here’s a brief session recap:

He actually responded via email on Monday saying my session was open and he planned to see me on Wednesday. This was sort of a nice surprise because the way I had phrased my email I was only expecting a response if my time was no longer available.

On Wednesday I started by saying a lot had happened emotionally in the 2 weeks since I had seen him last. I asked if he believed me when I sent the termination email and he said that he believed I meant it when I sent it and that he was glad when I later sent another email saying I was planning to come in after all. He said he thought I might have been feeling some kickback from the week before when I shared a bit more, and then he was going on vacation leaving me alone after being more vulnerable. I said maybe that was true, but that I also felt frustrated with his lack of email responses and that I keep going back to that even though I don’t want to, and even though I know logically that I don’t need anything from him to function in the real world. We talked about how we can understand something logically but that doesn’t necessarily stop us from feeling a certain way. He said something about my wanting to be heard and that he thinks that it sometimes feels good for me to send an email just to get something off my chest, and that other times I share really vulnerable things via email and it must feel like I’m being dismissed when I don’t get a response from him.

At one point I felt my face flush and didn’t speak or make eye contact for a period of time. We mostly sat in silence for those few moments, but at one point he said, “you’re mad at me.” I wasn’t sure exactly what I was feeling but I replied that I was mad at myself for letting myself feel a certain way or letting myself be affected by him. Towards the end of the period of silence, feeling the warmth and redness in my face, I said, “I just don’t know what to do with this,” and he leaned forward and said, “It’s ok. You’re doing ok.” It was nice in a way that I can’t really explain. He also said, “how about if we both agree that it’s ok to be mad at me?” This felt strange to me and has got me thinking. I guess it’s nice to have permission to be angry, especially since I don’t really want to be angry but can’t seem to help myself. We talked about other things going on in my life and even laughed a bit. I told him about my momentary excitement when I got his automated out-of-office reply and how I felt like I had “won.” Interestingly, he said he never thought I was trying to get a reply from him. He did also mention that he might even want to reply sometimes, but didn’t think it was helpful to me.

I also saw him on Thursday and my mind sort of went blank that day. I felt pressure to say something interesting and keep him entertained, I guess, and we talked about that a bit, and how my father was depressed and I was often aware of trying to make him happy or entertained. I also said that I assume I’d have a hard time opening up with any therapist, not just him. He responded with something like, “yes, people are difficult, aren’t they?” And I didn’t respond at the time, but now I’m wondering what the heck he meant by that. I’m good with people one-on-one, but much prefer to be in the “helper” role and would rather not share about myself. Maybe I do that because I believe that “people are difficult.” Maybe that’s what he was referring to?

Chick-sent-me-high-ay

"He responded with something like, “yes, people are difficult, aren’t they?” And I didn’t respond at the time, but now I’m wondering what the heck he meant by that. I’m good with people one-on-one, but much prefer to be in the “helper” role and would rather not share about myself. Maybe I do that because I believe that “people are difficult.” Maybe that’s what he was referring to?"

Is that being good with people? Or hiding yourself from them and just interacting on your terms?

What's difficult about people for me is the in real time interaction, the give and take, the showing vulnerability, the asking for things, the not being sure what the response will be but doing it anyway. That's how I'd interpret it.

LIke you, I work for a living in a helper role. The helper role for the population I work with has pretty low standards for the people who help them, as they've been mistreated by almost every social system out there. Showing up and doing what you say you're going to do blows them away. Listening rather than shooing them off is astounding to them. The people in my life have higher standards for me, some of their expectations unknown or baffling or simply not things I could do. This is part of what makes people in real life difficult, and then if you add in how difficult it is to even try to get your own needs me or tell what's true or important to you beyond the answer to "how was your day?"

I think how your T put that, "people are difficult" is both nuanced and elegantly simple at the same time. It's kind of beautiful. There's nothing more difficult than a person. Many people find the work I do very hard, or they think it's hard, and my internal reaction is that it's so much easier than being a wife and a mother. Working with people as a helper is easy, but people in real life are hard.

You really opened up to him, and it sounded like a really good session. It is interesting that he did not think you were trying get a reply. To tell him that, you trusted him.

Might difficult be related to all the efforts here ^ ?

I know this post is a bit older, but it came up on my search. I hope you’re doing ok. I’m glad to hear you changed your mind and went back.
Remember that your therapist doesn’t get paid to be a therapist by responding to emails. Do you want people asking you questions about your profession while you’re off the clock or on vacation?
I was just trying to think what the other side of the story could be and maybe it might help you understand the “why” of him not responding.
The only emails I expect from my therapist are for schedule changes or billing.
I can totally relate to your comments about not knowing what to say and feeling as though you have to entertain or keep it interesting. I feel the same way!
I’m just curious, do you remember your childhood? My feelings are buried so deep, that I can’t remember a lot of what went on. My dad quit drinking when I was 5, but even reading my journals from Jr. High are so strange because I don’t remember most of the events. It’s hard to get better when you can’t remember why you’re feeling this way!
Good luck to you!

I just don't agree about the email comment here. As a teacher, we had a rule in the faculty handbook to return all email & phonecalls from parents within 24 hours- vacation or not. In my job now, I answer client emails constantly, and just did 3 of them( willingly- I am thankful for my clients & invested in my job). I receive emails from my vet, my accountant, and my lawyer. I do think the therapy "frame" is a legitimate reason why some therapists don't email, but there is no reason otherwise they cant cope with the 21st century like other professions. Even my primary care doc has a "portal" and answers questions quickly. Mainy of the therapists here charge for email.

I think there is a difference between an email and an email.

I suppose it's fair to assume that at this era everyone is ready to respond to emails related to logistics, work organization and stuff like that.

I don't think it's fair to assume in many settings that actual work gets done over email. For instance, I as an academic staff do not teach or supervise anyone over email. Yes, I agree meetings over email, I answer short very directed questions but if anyone really wants to discuss something in any reasonable length then they have to schedule a meeting with me and then we talk in person about these things.

To my mind the same analogy can be applied to therapy. Yes, logistics can be done over email, no, the therapeutic discussion does not have to be done over email - there are sessions for that.

I do agree that there are different types of emails and I can understand him not wanting to have substantive discussions over email. In the beginning of our relationship since I had never been in therapy before and just assumed it was ok to email, he responded. He now tells me it’s because he didn’t want to lose me. Later on, he’d reply with a sentence or two, and finally he stopped, saying he didn’t think his responses were helpful to me, and that I’d always want more, that it wasnt helping me in the long run. He was also trying to encourage me to bring my thoughts and feelings into the room rather than express them via email. He never said it was because he was too busy or because it was outside the frame, etc. I’m not sure what I think of that. I do think he has my best interests in mind, so I’m trusting him although I wish he was open to occasional brief responses. I am more present in the room than I used to be, but I still sometimes feel like I lost something that I didn’t know I could lose and that stings a little now and then.

I just responded but realized I didn’t respond to you. Thanks for your comments. I do remember bits and pieces of my childhood. We moved every year or two so I remember each grade or age by which house (or state or country) we were living in. When my T asks about my dad I can’t remember much simply because we didn’t have much of a relationship, I think. It’s nice that you have journals to look back on. I wish I had that. I suppose old photos might serve the purpose too. Anyway, good luck to you!

EMDR does not use email. Her psychology today page has an email address which I used for initial contact. After that I emailed her once. She called me instead if emailing back. She doesn't use email with clients. For one they are not secure and she takes that very seriously. Secondly, she doesnt check her email enough and she fears somebody would make SU statements and she would miss it. She knows I would not but that is why she has the policy. She does do texting and phone calls though.

It's already an exploitive practice... profiting from human misery. And on a tight schedule that puts money-making over client well-being and which causes some people to leave feeling destabilized. If the therapist refuses interaction outside sessions then it's over the top exploitive.

They should be prepared to take appropriate steps to mitigate harm inherent in this dodgy game, including some email or phone contact, within reason.

It is ironic to work hard on not compartmentalizing/ integrating experience with the urgent therapist companioning this , yet then to simultaneously and deeply experience what it is like to BE compartmentalized in an extreme way by that same person.

I hadn’t thought of it that way, but that is what’s going on, isn’t it?

Hi

It has a way of building your ego strength and learning how to master your emotional distress. Part of this therapy is replacing unhealthy defenses with healthy defenses, and it takes time. So you're also integrating all the formerly disavowed emotions into your Self as you're reconstructing your ego.

Someone on another thread mentioned their T told them something to the effect of putting a wall back up. That seems so unhelpful. What you can do, though, is learn to consciously supress or compartmentalize, which is healthy because it doesn't distort reality like repression or dissociation.

The therapist as a consistent, strong, and reliable presence helps build this capacity for those of us whose parents didn't help facilitate your development (i.e. rejected and abandoned you when expressing intense emotion resulting in repression on a large scale). And the T lets you be you so you can build this strength, develop the capacity. Similar to a parent helping their child learn to tie his shoes rather than keep tying them for him which prevents him from learning how to do it himself. Which hinders further development because it has a domino effect. Not learning how to tie his shoe himself leads to low self-esteem which (unconsciously or consciously) impacts one's feeling of being capable which manifests as behaviors that reflect not being capable such as dependency, self-sabotage, helplessness, etc.

Just my take on it!

I grew up with some draconian csa, but I kind of put it on shelves in the attic of my unconscious, and really thrived fine for several decades. My T has given me myriad lenses to understand why I over compartmentalize , and taught me theories like Bion's idea of beta thoughts being a baby's raw terror, and the mother metabolizing those feelings and giving them back to the baby in a useable form( Alpha process). In this way, Bion's baby learns to alpha process without the mama's help, and eventually can even go on to take the beta of others and metabolize( like T does for patients).

In some situations though, the mother is incapable of this, and the "baby" spends a lifespan in a state of anguish beyond words.

There are some patients for whom that frame is insufficient bc of more severe pathology ; the T asks the patient to experience the raw terror without words, and must metabolize it or the person is going to be a mess back on their own, retraumatizing back to the original failure. The problem is when that happens, and the T has compartmentalized the patient away, therapy fails. Statistically quite a bit of treatment fails.

So some relationally trained psychoanalysts will see a person like that 5 days a week. A T like mine simply wont see that person in private practice.

Another kindred theory is Winnicott believing there is no "baby" - there is only the dyad of baby/ mother. This int the best news for a some of us. The T cannot be the mother, but if the deprivation/ abuse was bad enough, therapy can open floodgates that the client simply lacks the infrastructure to manage. "Reliable presence" is defined in flux so 2 times a week might be reliable presence for one patient, but another might need 24 hour inpatient.

I don't disagree with what you wrote, but I do think that is for a client who can handle it and some need more help .

We both agree.

I was that client-
The T cannot be the mother, but if the deprivation/ abuse was bad enough, therapy can open floodgates that the client simply lacks the infrastructure to manage.

But somehow managed. I had really severe abuse and neglect, and I completely fell apart upon starting therapy as my defenses collapsed suddenly. I don't advocate for that, but this isn't the same...

A history of full-time work, accomplishments, and stability in other areas of your life is an indicator the client has the capacity and is capable. Clients who have a history of hospitalizations, sui attempts, job firing, etc., may become too unstable.

We are not babies anymore-this is transference, feelings of the past of when we were babies. It can feel like the past in the present, but your brain strengthens and finds a way to adapt and build resilience you never had a chance to build when you were a baby.

When someone adapts the environment to you, you lose opportunities to grow and change as you would have by adapting to the environment. I think it gets really intense in this therapy as there are issues of control, too, as people from trauma often try to control the environment (including others) as opposed to adapting. And these patterns of trying to control others/environment emerge in the therapy.

A good T will apply just enough pressure to facilitate change rather than rescuing and reassuring the client, actions which put the client in a helpless, dependent position, dragging out the resolution of these feelings. I see this T as one of the good ones.

I see this therapist as an asshole who has a desperate client willing to put up will all sorts of convoluted nonsense in the hopes that something might help. I see most of the ones who act like this in that way.