Survivors of therapy and their therapists

C'mon, peeps. Can we please take this to the other thread so as not to derail the topic of this thread? Guess that is a special invitation to DP_2017 since missbella has already posted on the other thread, which wasn't there yet last time DP_2017 posted.

Glad to see a thread started for the usual 'support' debate, thanks here today.

OP: You had alluded to what happened to you before, and I'm sorry again to hear more details of how you have come to be in the place you are. It's not surprising you don't feel like you can trust a therapist again. I hope your current therapist can at least go some way to helping you heal those wounds. I know he's always been good support for you in the past.

Alienating people with a different perspective to the point that they don't feel like they are able to speak out in support of the OP of this thread is also low.

Maybe not everyone wants to stay stuck in the victim role forever. People who are brave enough to speak up and talk about how they've been successful rising above their tragedy seem to be labeled as victim blamers and shamers. Why isn't that experience just as valid and welcome as a "sad hug"?

This is a thread about "Survivors of therapy and their therapists". There is another thread where this comment would be more appropriate. Please take it there. If you don't, I will request that the moderators move it there. They may not agree with my request, but I will request it.

Perhaps it would help to keep this reminder in mind:

A reminder about support & judgment here

I don’t know of anyone who would prefer to stay in a victim role. That has not been my impression of posters who have suffered through trauma in therapy.

I see blaming those who ‘chose the stay victims’ on par with blaming someone with depression for being sad. It’s judgmental and insensitive.

I don’t see any of your comments as supportive of anything, other than trying to rattle cages and start conflict. I would be willing to listen to your explanation of how you’ve been trying to be helpful in this thread - the topic is about Survivors of therapy.

Well said Missbella,

Your logic is sound and good in nature. I love your ability to articulate these problems so fluidly, it makes perfect sense. I wish those who feel the need to challenge survivors understood what they are doing.

It is fine to hold differing opinions, but there IS a time and a place and an appropriate way to challenge someone's trauma.

This is a hypothetical example below to get the point across:

The equivalent would be if we hijacked a survivor of sexual abuse thread (Who's thread author is a female who was abused by a male) and saying, "You're saying that all men are bad," or, "You are making others afraid of men by sharing your negative experiences with men," or, "You are painting a dark and inaccurate picture of men in general," or, "you are making sweeping generalizations and blanket statements," or, "you aren't willing to hear other people's perspectives," or, "You can't handle hearing other perspectives," etc, etc, etc.

The trigger point for me is this: We share our traumas, we hope to be supported, regardless of the trauma. That SHOULD be a common courtesy, especially in a psych-forum like this. When someone comes into our trauma thread and challenges us, we are naturally going to be on the defensive, and sometimes we even experience secondary-traumas as a result. (It is a form of invalidation and in some cases gas-lighting too - common traits of any abusive narcissist or sociopathic type). Of course, when we are invalidated and put on the defensive, we can react strongly, especially when it is about something as sensitive as our trauma! Unfortunately, it is our emotional reaction to the abuse that often becomes the focal point of the conversation from that point forward, which in some cases can make us look like the abusive one.

This is a tactic that many abusive types use.

In simple terms:

Abusive types will regularly try to Provoke us and then try to blame us for conflict that follows. It is a common tactic utilized by sociopathic types. The idea being that those who are most emotional MUST be the ones who are crazy, when in actual fact they are simply reacting to subtle and covert abuse. The anger and frustration seen is in fact, warranted. Unfortunately a lot of those stuck in this abuse fail to realize they are being manipulated until it is too late. This is why so many of us get stuck in abusive relationships with sociopaths, because they know our trigger points and create a false sense of shame in us - which keeps us going back for more. Until we realize where the abuse comes from, we are stuck in trauma bonds and reeled in with toxic shame. It is horrible.

This, I believe, is what is happening on these threads. People who are abusive come into our threads looking to provoke, then when we are provoked, we react passionately and are made out to be the ones who are being inappropriate, thus, we become even more triggered and the arguing goes from the subject of the thread to Ad-Hominem attacks on our person.

Some people do no understand that when survivors of therapist exploitation and or abuse are looking to build a thread around SUPPORT, they don't need their trauma to be CHALLENGED. There is simply no debate to be had: the abuse happened and it continues to happen and therefore, there is really no debate to begin with.

Those who refuse to believe and or adopt a worldview that remains cognizant of the immense abuse occurring in the healthcare system, are simply under the spell of an illusion and are best not to be argued with. Illusions are defense mechanisms too, that is why there are normalcy bias's. Perhaps in time, when they have been abused by a therapist, they will come back to these threads and realize what they are doing. Some people are stuck in past generations, stuck in old ways of thinking, unshakable even with all the evidence to the contrary.

No different when it comes to abuse in therapy. Everyone who defends and challenges the trauma and or the cultural and systemic problems that do in fact exist in the healthcare system, are inadvertently prolonging abuse and helping to cover-up the sad truth. Unfortunately, the only thing that changes these types of people is personal experience. Either they themselves or a family member must be abused by the healthcare system for any degree of empathy to flourish.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Providers seemed terrified of the topic as evidenced by the scarcity of their literature and the absence (as far as I find) of any literature around helping those exploited by therapists. So the repeating conflicts on PC replicates attitudes within the profession itself.

I find it very interesting.

I agree. This is why this is so fascinating. Victim Blaming and Shaming is a very real phenomenon surrounding trauma in general, however, when it comes to healthcare, it is horrendous. No different than the Catholic Church when they fell under a plethora of accusations. The Catholic's defended the Church, the Vatican protected the Church, the legal system protected the Church, the Police protected the Church, the Public defended the Church, and even the parent's of the children who were abused were protecting the Church! (At least until the truth got out).

In saying this, it is to be expected to meet resistance when we begin to expose social problems such as those seen in healthcare. This is a sign of being effective. All the more reason to push more and more and more.

If you speak up about something, and you are met with resistance; that means you are onto something.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

It is very interesting. I wonder what it will take for a change to come about ? Will it come to the point that people will say that the mental health professions clearly have issues and won't be trusted until they address it ? I have a long term , very competent and ethical T. Aside from supporting me across the issues I have faced , he is not happy with the latest episode one iota. If it had fallen under a jurisdiction where it could have been reported , he would have done so , but it does not. I feel my other T should have reported it ( but there seems to have been Ostrich Syndrome) and I have grounds for reporting the other T. It's a complex , messy situation.

I also think that victim blaming is easier than accepting that bad things happen to people who have done nothing wrong. When a person causes their own misery, there is an element of control. Accepting that many elements of life are out of our control is hard for many.

People who have not had any trauma or any mental illness are going to throw the word victim blame more easy and that is not right. I had a counsellor and the whole organization (church) I was in used that word quite allot. It was very hard for me to feel ok getting help after I left even still today im very afraid im going to be called a victim again. I think it's something that society needs to be careful how they use it infact not use it. Every one is different we all handle trauma differently. No one has the right to label us not even therapist calling people victims. I know allot of this does not make allot of sense

Well said. This is partly the motivation behind Normalcy Bias and like you said, victim blaming and shaming.

It is far easier to believe the lies than the truth if the truth threatens to destroy our illusions.

It is also in the best interest of the Government and the healthcare system it finances, for the truth to remain unseen.

I’m so sorry Out There.

I don’t think there will be meaningful change until viable alternatives are established.

Similar to the drug industry, every treatment has side effects and people who are harmed. There is obviously an acceptance that healing of the majority is worth the harm of a minority. I fall into that mindset myself, since I have no desire to report my former therapist because I believe that she IS helping many others without incident.

I don’t know that I have a great solution either.

I understand feeling traumatized by a therapist, from experience, but I have little idea how to describe it. How would you describe your experience? How do you think your original T might describe it?

Wondering how to find some words for what still seems to me a pretty wordless experience.

I know you're not asking me, but I would say betrayal of the highest order.

Yes. Perfect description.

Maybe it will always feel like a wordless experience. If something is unspeakable , there ARE no words to describe it. The word I've been using with my T is " appalling ". But I did well with EMDR , which doesn't always need words. I've irrevocably changed now , I'm just finding the new way to be.

That's another very good way of describing it.

Yes, betrayal. I have a gut and visceral sense of it, but what does that word mean in today's world? What loyalties does anyone have, or is expected to have, to anyone except themselves and perhaps their children, maybe their partner?

Appalling -- here's the first definition that came up on my search:

Shock. Dismay. Horror.

Aloneness and being disregarded. Not something that social primates are wired for.

I can't find a good article about it right now, but the trauma and dissociation consultant whom I saw, and who was as haughty and disregarding of me as a person as the last T is/was, who was under her "wing" and whom she referred me to -- one good thing from the contact with her is that she mentioned polyvagal theory by Stephen Porges. It came from some pretty basic neurological research, and some basic biological research facts and experiments.

Rather than look something up now, here is the gist as I remember it. He postulates a three tiered neurological system -- the "Social Engagement System" where we are relaxed and calm and feel safe and interact with each other in love and cooperation, etc. The there is the level when we are anxious about our own survival and not engaged -- the nervous system does this automatically when we are scared -- fight or flight. And I guess for primates, fawn. Then there is the level of nearness-to-death life threat, and the response is freeze.

So the appalling betrayal, the shock and trauma, takes us out of the ability to be in the social engagement system. It's done at the highest level of the social institution that we assume -- that society generally probably assumes -- is there to help us. It leaves us alone, outside a circle of help. That, for mammals and primates, is traumatic.

But, still -- that's a lot for anyone we might try to talk to about it to try to swallow. Or care about.

Loneliness, or at least something interpreted as social isolation, has been observed in non-human primates. It might be said that aloneness is a fundamental experience of the social experience.