Sometimes I see people on here talking about not being able to afford therapy , therapy gone wrong and the like....

I have a different "problem". When I started therapy, I was on disability but since then, I lost it. Luckily, I was finally able to get my VA benefits but the VA does not have enough therapists so I got authorization from the VA to go to a therapist in the community who will accept the VA's contract. I have used this service for other medical needs and the VA generally pays at least as much for services as Medicare did. The problem is that my therapist cannot figure out how to successfully submit my claims. The only reason I know she has not been paid is that I regularly ask her and when I asked last session she said she just wanted to change me to a pro bono client.

I have been trying to go to therapy less and less because it make me feel "well" to think that I don't need therapy though she has helped me a lot. I said I was feeling better and was planning on only going quarterly but then ended up making an appt for one month later. It doesn't feel "right" to have gone to all this therapy for free (My disability ended in February).

I now believe my problem is that I have some codependent traits -- I have been making some strides towards becoming less so -- funny how that I think that the kind of person who would give away so much free therapy may have some codependent traits as well? When I was a teacher -- I spent WAY too much of my money giving my students free stuff (loads of books, food, supplies) and I think my compulsion to do this stemmed from a sort of codepency that I wish I had examined a long time ago.....

Some of us just talk to ourselves on here instead of a therapist. That's OK; writing a thread is a lot like talking to a therapist--sometimes they offer suggestions; othertimes they say nothing unless you ask for their advice. I have decided my next session will be my last with her unless she has figured out how to get paid. I am not going to take advantage of her generousity. I know enough about what went wrong with me to take it from here. Healing for me is about making amends for past wrongs and trying to be a better person to the people who depend on me. I made many mistakes concerning the way I raised my children. I can't change it but I do what I can whenever the opportunity presents itself. I am not sure I have a mental illness, rather, I made bad decisions. This is why I have been trying to work rather than appeal my loss of benefits. Maybe I do have a mental illness but mostly, I am just a very wishy washy person but I know right from wrong and and just need to be more courageous than I have been in the past. I have really talked enough about it on here--this is my third psychcentral account--I keep deleting them because I tell myself I have talked enough about it and it doesn't really help--I should move on and focus on my "real life". Talking helped when I was so unsure about why it (my breakdown) happened. I know why now. We reap what we sow to a great extent--I've had every advantage in life but made many bad choices.

[SlumberKitty]

I'm not sure if this will help but I don't see going to therapy without paying the therapist as taking advantage of her generosity. A lot of professionals will do pro-bono work as a way of giving back to the community. If therapy has been helpful to you, I would encourage you to stick with it. I'm sure we have all made bad choices in life here and there but we could still use help in figuring out how to deal with those choices and clarity on how to make better choices in the future. That's my take on it. I'm not sure if you were looking for an answer or just wanted to talk. In any case ((hugs)) if you want them.

[PurpleBlur]

pay what you can, then, and accept the rest as a goft. even if its only 5 or 10 dollars a session...give what you can afford.


OR research and figure out what she needs to submit your claims correctly. was n this situation too with a t who couldnt fill out claims properly so she ended up seeing me for free (but i didnt know that for a year afterwards)

[TishaBuv]

If you are not feeling good about the dynamics you probably won’t benefit from it anyway.

Yes, I post here and try to help others, which helps me too. I can’t handle any more bad therapist experiences.

I also obsessively read everything I can about my issues in professional articles.

I couldn’t get into the DBT. It was boring to me and I didn’t want to do the workbook.

My goal is to stop having meltdowns. But if I do, my goal is to not cope in a harmful way.

Baby steps. Simple goals.

[Ididitmyway]

I will second the opinion that accepting someone's generosity is not the same as taking advantage of them. People take advantage of other people when they try to take more than what was offered if they feel that the person cannot refuse. By framing this as taking advantage of your therapist you are trying to take care of her, which is exactly a co-dependent trait that you are trying to get rid of. She is an adult and doesn't need to be taken care of. When she offers you free service as a pro-bono work, you should assume that she knows what she is doing, and if she doesn't know what she is doing, this is not your problem to "fix".

If you don't feel good about accepting free therapy, because that makes you feel dependent, that's a different issue. In that case, you can offer her a very small amount or any amount you can and are willing to pay her. This will be a symbolic pay, but a symbolic pay is important IMO because it conveys a clear message that this is a professional, fee-for-service, relationship.

I personally don't believe in pro-bono work, but I do believe in providing a "near free" service to some economically disadvantaged people. It means that if someone is super poor and struggles to make it and if they are not referred by the agency that can pay for them such as VA, I'd charge $1, just one buck per session, which is virtually free counseling, but I'd still introduce this symbolic payment because this to me signifies the professional nature of our meetings and, I think, it also gives the client the dignity of not feeling like they are receiving charity service. But that's just me. I know there are other views on this out there.

Originally Posted by PurpleBlur

OR research and figure out what she needs to submit your claims correctly. was n this situation too with a t who couldnt fill out claims properly so she ended up seeing me for free (but i didnt know that for a year afterwards)

I have been trying to do this and go to the VA again this month before next month's therapy appt.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

By framing this as taking advantage of your therapist you are trying to take care of her, which is exactly a co-dependent trait that you are trying to get rid of.

Good point.


I can afford to pay (though I am cheap and would appreciate a discount) and I have been offering to pay but she won't accept (this is why I wondered to myself if she had some codependent traits also.

Thanks for all your replies.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

I can afford to pay (though I am cheap and would appreciate a discount) and I have been offering to pay but she won't accept (this is why I wondered to myself if she had some codependent traits also.

She might or might not, it doesn't matter, because it doesn't have to be your problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide

When I went to her on October 1st and she still hadn't figured out how to get paid she said the therapy was her way of giving back to veterans.

I said, "Given that I now have a job and M has a job, let me pay you $80. each time since we are both fortunate that we now both have jobs." She agreed and apparently still felt good about it because she usually charges $100 and felt like she was still giving back by giving a discount. Also, when I had implied she was worth $80, she let me know that her services are definitely worth $100. I thought it was sort of cute the way she reacted to the $80 (she feels like she is worth it and she has been a good therapist).

My next appointment with her is Dec 19th.

In the meantime, I feel like when I have negative thoughts, it is the same old story over and over. As a matter of fact, I have been here since June 2016, and I have noticed that many of us go over some of the same issues in 2018 as we did in 2016---just with slightly different twists.

I purposely didn't take my Zoloft on Friday (for better sex), then forgot on Saturday (found the Saturday pill in the slot this morning) then ended up complaining to my husband about the same old things. It was a pretty good session. He is a lot more patient with me now--we have gotten to the other side of this in some ways. Of course, in other ways, I will never change. He says he loves me anyways. I am very lucky. Not sure I need therapy anymore or that I need to come to PC as much anymore. Don't want to sound like a broken record to you'all.

[TishaBuv]

Thank you for your service to the USA and Happy Veterans Day!

During my last session, my therapist told me things that are hard to hear. She said, my husband and I tolerate each other and stay together only because it is what we are comfortable with--that we have just enough good times to stay together but we don't really like each other! She said this because of what I have said to her. Since I am not divorcing him anytime soon -- I have to to do a better supporting him. I have improved in the area of telling him what I think of him even though it starts fights then working more things out together rather than avoiding things.

In my head, I am a very wishy washy person who sometimes (ever since my attempt) goes back and forth on how I feel about him. The truth is that we get along pretty well when I "medicate" myself. He says he loves me but not my problem. But if he only loves the "medicated" me--does he really love me and I love him? I wonder if I am just numbing myself to the truth and am an awful person to have stayed with him for 31 years. Not feeling good about what kind of person I am at all. Am trying to do better and be better.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

I wonder if I am just numbing myself to the truth and am an awful person to have stayed with him for 31 years. Not feeling good about what kind of person I am at all. Am trying to do better and be better.

Unless you're keeping him in a cage, I don't see how staying in a marriage that may not be right for *you* (who knows about him, have you asked?) makes you a bad person at all. It's not a requirement for a marriage that both people love each other in some certain kind of way. While "waking up" to pay more attention to how you feel and whether this is marriage what you want for yourself sounds like a productive inquiry, I think it's more important to see things as they are without all the self judgment and unwarranted negativity.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Unless you're keeping him in a cage, I don't see how staying in a marriage that may not be right for *you* (who knows about him, have you asked?) makes you a bad person at all. It's not a requirement for a marriage that both people love each other in some certain kind of way. While "waking up" to pay more attention to how you feel and whether this is marriage what you want for yourself sounds like a productive inquiry, I think it's more important to see things as they are without all the self judgment and unwarranted negativity.

Yes, I do slip into negativity sometimes--neither of us need that--depression? Antidepressants do help it. I am taking two.

We are doing a lot better though we still have our moments. We are talking about our future plans a lot more lately. He has almost always said he loves me and wants to stay with me. Thanks for your response.

I really understand the discomfort about not paying the T even if it's due to a complicated administrative process. I have never been in a similar situation but, knowing myself (how important it is to be financially capable and responsible), I would not go to therapy more than a couple times if the payment did not reach the provider. I did not even accept financial support from my parents beyond age 19 and would never accept anything other than equal contribution with a spouse, let alone a service provider, and a symbolic cost for me would be just like not paying at all. I know this is also type of issue and I am not saying at all that I am right or the most realistic, just saying I understand the feeling very well. And I actually do believe in pro bono work and I am doing some myself, just don't want to be the receiving end of it for anything beyond very simple and brief. Just my personality and values.

The T not being able to figure out how to submit claims is really not your fault and responsibility though. Maybe one kind of compromise could be to make a deal how many more sessions (or weeks) maximum should take to figure out the claims and if it still does not work, stop therapy. Did she explain what is difficult about the claims?

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I really understand the discomfort about not paying the T even if it's due to a complicated administrative process. I have never been in a similar situation but, knowing myself (how important it is to be financially capable and responsible), I would not go to therapy more than a couple times if the payment did not reach the provider. I did not even accept financial support from my parents beyond age 19 and would never accept anything other than equal contribution with a spouse, let alone a service provider, and a symbolic cost for me would be just like not paying at all. I know this is also type of issue and I am not saying at all that I am right or the most realistic, just saying I understand the feeling very well. And I actually do believe in pro bono work and I am doing some myself, just don't want to be the receiving end of it for anything beyond very simple and brief. Just my personality and values.

The T not being able to figure out how to submit claims is really not your fault and responsibility though. Maybe one kind of compromise could be to make a deal how many more sessions (or weeks) maximum should take to figure out the claims and if it still does not work, stop therapy. Did she explain what is difficult about the claims?

I decided not to let this bother me yet it does slightly in the back of my mind (she still hasn't figured out how to file the claims to get a payment). I know my psychiatrist is still trying to help her with this. And the day I said I was going to pay $80, she said--just pay $50 then the next session I saw her, she said, "If I am paid (by the VA), I am giving you that $50 back and then I didn't even pay her that session. I have decided she means well. Is only human and definitely is not seeing me for the money. She says it is her way of helping veterans.

Both her and the therapist before her have been helping me pay more attention to how I feel. She has also been encouraging me to stand up for myself. I've worked through a lot of what has happened and want to stay married. Things are a lot more intimate and he treats me so much better now. I don't feel like I need therapy much anymore. She knows so much about me that I won't be changing therapists but have no sessions scheduled and hope it stays that way (I will go if I feel like I am going off the deep end. )

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

Yes, I do slip into negativity sometimes--neither of us need that--depression? Antidepressants do help it. I am taking two.

We are doing a lot better though we still have our moments. We are talking about our future plans a lot more lately. He has almost always said he loves me and wants to stay with me. Thanks for your response.

It was sometimes difficult for me to hear my spouses's declaration of love and commitment when I wasn't feeling so great about myself as a person. I would still say that the point is what you want or don't want.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I would still say that the point is what you want or don't want.

Are you here on behalf of the Therapist's union? I could see my T saying something like this.

Originally Posted by Nowinners

Are you here on behalf of the Therapist's union? I could see my T saying something like this.

Anne,

I am sorry about this comment. Since saying this, I have read some of your comments and have learned that you are a therapist but mostly post from the POV of someone who used therapy to improve/transform her life.

Originally Posted by Nowinners

During my last session, my therapist told me things that are hard to hear. She said, my husband and I tolerate each other and stay together only because it is what we are comfortable with--that we have just enough good times to stay together but we don't really like each other!

I scheduled a therapy session for this week. It might be the last one for a while (though because she lets me come and go as I please--I won't totally rule out going back). I do plan on discussing the above comment. I felt like what she said is because I have not been a good wife. I have been trying to be more loyal, work more as a team with him concerning the issues going on with our son and not be afraid to tell everyone in my family what is on my mind.

During this session, my T also seemed concerned that I wasn't able to express how I felt. Both of my children have expressed concern that my medication makes me less empathetic than before. I blame my Sertraline (Zoloft) for this. It is like emotional novacaine. I have been weening myself off it. I needed it for a while in order to stop crying about and to be able to deal with my son without getting overly emotional. The last thing he needs is for me to get angry. I seem to not be getting angry at him now despite not medicating as much. I would like to think I am getting more perspective about the situation.

If my T has not figured out how to get paid--I will insist on paying her. She seems like the kind of person who doesn't always insist on charging what she deserves. I am also going to discuss--do I really need to go to therapy anymore. What would the point of it be? I am thinking maybe I have thought about my mental health enough during the last three years and need to move on....

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

Anne,

I am sorry about this comment. Since saying this, I have read some of your comments and have learned that you are a therapist but mostly post from the POV of someone who used therapy to improve/transform her life.

Uh, I'm not a therapist. You must be confusing me with people on here who are therapists. But I am a lawyer, so I understand why you might confuse me with a therapist, given how similar the two professions are. It might be confusing because my legal work focuses on indigent, highly traumatized persons. So I work with people who have experienced all kinds of trauma and maybe that makes me sound like my stance is more like a professional rather than a very successful therapy client.

Feeling as awkward as ever about therapy. During the last session (way back in February), I told her that I wanted to take a break/stop thinking about my mental health for a while. At times, I have put it behind me but not to the extent I would like. After I said that, she said something like that's fine, I can call and make an appointment if I need to/things change. Then she offered to see my daughter for free!

Idiot me, I did not follow her advice to not share things we have discussed in session with my husband. During a walk, I mentioned that she had offered to see our daughter for free. Then, a few days later when our daughter told her dad some not so nice things, he took the computer away he gave her and threatened to kick her out. A day or two later, he told me that if she would go to therapy, then she could stay. In order to smooth things over, I asked her to make an appointment. I know this was a big mistake.

My H gave me the impression, he wanted to see her go to therapy regularly but I dropped it because I was uncomfortable with forcing her and especially with her going to her mom's therapist. I mean, part of her problems may be me.

Even worse, my H and I tried to go to family therapy this week (we will not be going back). I told the T what happened asking what should I do? She said it wasn't proper for us to go to the same T. However, during the session, H said, he did not say our daughter had to go. Then when I asked him about it in the truck on the way home, he said, "I would never ask her to go unless she wanted too!! What? This is so contrary to things he has told me. I definitely felt so gaslighted that I actually felt sorry for my H. The session was not easy for him and I figured that maybe he was ashamed of his behavior when he lost his temper with our daughter that day. I am sure he said she had to go. Even worse, I aquiessed even though my gut instinct was that it was the wrong thing to do.

Right before writing this, I sent a text, asking for an appointment because I am trying not to put my families business on PC but yesterdays counseling session with my H has things in an uproar between H and I once again. I shouldn't vent but am and now am having 2nd thoughts about requesting an appointment. My gut says, there is something not quite right about my therapy. Also, during my very first session with her--I gave her a memoir that was mostly about H and I plus my attempt in 2015. It was over 80 pages long. Sometimes I wonder if I told her way too much.....

[Anne2.0]

I don't know what kind of feedback would be helpful to you, but what flags for me in your last post is that something is not quite right about your marriage. Your husband's behavior towards your daughter is controlling, which is also the purpose of gaslighting. It seems like part of your therapy was to help you figure out if you want to be there. I think that's a good use of your time. Go to your appointment, you don't have to make another one if you don't want to but it seems to me like a low investment to figure out your next move. Maybe no therapy is or will work for you (I don't think things are going well now, but maybe they will get better without therapy) or maybe going back for some amount of time (doesn't have to be forever) will help you figure out what's best for you and your daughter.

My son is nearly of legal age, and I would not appreciate my spouse threatening to kick him out under any circumstances. Why is he the boss of both of you? Not acceptable. And my son sees my therapist per his choice, after his therapist moved out of town and he decided after a year to go back. If she doesn't want to go, then don't make her. But if she is willing to go and maybe it would really help her to have someone to talk to about her conflict and mistreatment from her father (stepfather? I assume so since you call her just "my daughter." If she wants to go and wants to continue, then accept your therapist's gift for what it is, for the sake of your daughter. Like most mothers, I am sure you will do what is best for your kid. It is a kind but not herculean effort for your therapist to offer to see her for free. Take her up on said offer, if it's what your kid wants.

My vote is to dump the husband and keep the kind therapist. FWIW.

[susannahsays]

I don't think people who make charitable contributions are necessarily codependent, although I do see your point. I think it's a case of all apples are fruits, but not all fruits are apples, if you get what I mean. Even if your therapist is codependent, I would say that's not your problem and it's not your responsibility to manage.

As for accepting charity from your therapist, I think charity sometimes is hard to accept for people here in the US due to our culture. American culture very much emphasizes independence and self-reliance. These are good characteristics. The issue is that there is a dissonance between them and the realities of life for a good number of people. Sure, if you check all the right boxes in terms of socioeconomic status ( family economic and social position, income, education), health, social supports, etc., you have the ingredients to be what we call independent and self-reliant. However, this is actually an illusion because it requires that you be born with privilege and social supports. I hope I'm explaining that in a way that makes sense.

For people who don't check all those boxes for whatever reason, they are at a disadvantage. That is the reason we have social programs, inadequate as they usually are. I think the word "charity" has a negative connotation in the US due to cultural expectations that were formed a long time ago when there was less of a class disparity in the US. Sure, some people still had more privilege than others, but economically speaking, it was much more of an even playing field than it is now and there was much more economic mobility (meaning people were able to affect change in the economic status they were born into with greater ease than they are now). I obviously don't know all of the factors in your case, but at the very least, you are impacted by mental illness and the rising costs of healthcare.

I generally think when people provide charity to others, it is because they recognize that life is often difficult for many and feel compassion. Some may even recognize the inherent unfairness of the lives many people are born into or how life can get screwed up by things that are out of a person's control. I am not a therapist, but at my old job, I provided countless fellow employees with computer repair and maintenance services free of charge. I didn't do this because I am codependent. I did it because I happened to know how much money they made due to my position, and I knew that taking their devices to computer repair shops would result in exorbitant charges. Plus, sometimes they just thought the devices were broken and that they needed to buy new ones, which they couldn't afford. These people also happened to be members of a disadvantaged group (I was not selective, that's just how it was) and I knew it was extremely likely they were paying off student loans - which I also knew might be higher due to the fact that they were members of this group. So I provided my services because I saw an opportunity to make a difference and remove a stressful burden from a fellow human being.

I think your therapist is probably motivated for the same or similar reasons. And I don't think she would want you to go to therapy less because she is doing it for free. I would not have wanted someone whom I had helped to not seek me out again because I had already helped them. For example, say I fixed one problem on their computer, but another cropped up that kept it from running smoothly. In a way, my work on the first problem would have been for nothing because the computer still didn't really work. So I would want them to bring it back. I would be invested in the outcome - even if the outcome was advising them to get a new computer. In your situation, your therapist is invested in providing treatment. And really, if the money was that important to her, she could have invested the time to figure out how to submit the claims. But sometimes, the hassle of doing something isn't worth the payoff.

Anyway, I hope that helps... I know I kind of rambled a bit, but it's all relevant if you think about it.

Anne and Susannah, Thanks for your feedback. I do agree with the points you made.

I am afraid that my son has already been kicked out and will have been homeless for one year on May 1st. He refuses to go anywhere near where homeless people live or any kind of services because he fears predators take advantage of homeless people, etc. This is probably one of the reasons she feels compassion for me. He says all the time that he will never marry, have kids, etc. I think both he and my daughter might agree with the following sentiment ( charles hugh smith-Weblog and Essays) , "The necessity of neutering the majority politically, socially and economically manifests in two destructive ways: young people who opt out (or are frozen out) of the failed status quo do not mate and have children, do not buy houses, new cars, etc. This sets off a demographic time bomb that guarantees the implosion of the financial promises made by the self-serving status quo." I am afraid my H blames them and me for their failure to launch.and all that blaming plus my not recognizing what was going on when I should have has not helped. Yes, I am worse of than I like to admit to myself. I grew up in "better times" and have had a hard time seeing things as they really are. I feel unable both emotionally and financially to leave my husband. If one day while my H was at work, I told my son he could come home (I do have that right I know), I am afraid of what could happen to my son. My H and my son have called the police on each other many times and there are many reasons why my husband could get the upper hand/make things worse for our son. And yes, they are both his kids too!

But I think I need to add that the situation is more complex than I described but it is hard for me to put it into words without talking about other details I do not want to divulge. I made a lot of mistakes. My husband/their dad does work hard to make us financially secure and he and I will be OK but it just hasn't worked out for our children yet.

[Anne2.0]

I understand about complexity of family situations and the difficulty of explaining them here. I am sorry that things are so difficult for you right now, but would really encourage you to return to therapy and encourage your daughter if that is what she wants. My son went after his father died a few years ago, but now goes about once/month or whenever he wants.

It seems to me that you need support and a place to be safe with your own stuff, away from what feels to me like the tyrant like behavior of your husband. I've made many mistakes as a mother, who hasn't, and I've found therapy has been helpful to me in examining those mistakes and learning from them.