[piggy momma]

How much vacation time do you think Ts should take?

Is there a maximum amount at one time they should take?

I’m curious for a few reasons.

As you know, my T leaves for 13-15 weeks every summer. I knew that going in, but it doesn’t make it any easier. It’s also one of the reasons he doesn’t take “difficult” cases. And he doesn’t do distance therapy so he does need to refer clients out for the summer. I’ve also recently found out that at two years in, I’m his longest client. He usually only keeps them a year and then they move on, so I guess I’m in a bit of a unique situation for him that way.

I’m also curious because I’m not putting myself through ten years of school to be a therapist and only take two weeks of holidays. As a self-employed professional, one of the perks is I take time off when I want and when it’s convenient for me. However, I feel a strong sense of responsibility to balance that with the needs of my clients. I couldn’t take four months off. I’d lose my mind. But two weeks here, three weeks there...sure...but I also know it all adds up for clients and can be distressing.

I know we all want to say “no holidays ever” for them! We all also know that’s not realistic and we should want our therapists to take holidays so they don’t burn out.

What are your thoughts?

[LonesomeTonight]

I don't think any of my T's have taken more than 2 weeks off at a time while I was seeing them. Well, I know ex-T was planning a 3-week trip to Australia, but I stopped seeing her before that (it was unrelated to her upcoming trip). My current T has never taken more than a week--he's more likely to do long weekends. I've said things to him before like, "Oh, now you're going to tell me that you're about to go on a 3-week vacation," and he's replied with "Maybe if I win the lottery." So I get the sense he couldn't really afford to. He's a solo practitioner, so if he doesn't work, he doesn't make any money--it's not like he gets paid vacation. I'm also self-employed (not as a T!), so I fully understand that. So I think that plays a role in his not taking longer vacations.

One thing I really appreciate that he's done is provided a backup T while he was gone for a week. He gave me her contact info and let her know I might contact her. I ended up really struggling with some things while he was away and ended up contacting her for a session (ended up being by phone because she wasn't feeling well), which was immensely helpful. He's said before that if he didn't provide a backup if he's gone a week or more, he'd consider that a form of client abandonment, which kind of surprised me. So I think having a T or two that you could provide to your client as a backup (even though most might not use it) if you're gone more than a week (or even just a week) could be very helpful, especially for clients who might be higher risk. (It would just need to be a case where the backup T might have space available for a session with a new client--not someone whose schedule is always totally booked for weeks in advance.)

Another helpful thing is that T also generally allows email while he's away, though he'll let me know that he'll only be checking it once a day, so it could take him some time to respond. I understand though that some T's wouldn't want to do that, how they'd want a complete break from their clients to have a true vacation. So I'd completely respect a T not allowing that (my ex-T was like that, while ex-MC technically allowed it, would just take longer to respond).

To answer your main question, I would prefer if my T didn't take any vacation longer than 2 weeks and to provide a backup T, (limited) contact while he's away, or both. Also, plenty of notice about a vacation is really helpful. Obviously, things come up, and plans could need to be made at the last minute, but for a planned trip, say, a month's notice could be helpful to a client. Again, many may not care or might be like, "Oh good, a week off from therapy!" but for more attached clients, like me, advanced notice helps, as does talking about coping mechanisms for when the T is away.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

In my country, you get usually I think 4 or 5 weeks of vacation, when you're 50 you get a week more, at 60 still another week more. This applies to all jobs.

I like it this way. My T is usually more or less consistent with it, two weeks over Christmas, two weeks in Summer, one week in between. I think he needes time off and should take it as well, but more than two weeks in a row is too much for me. He did a 2.5 week vacation last year and I freaked out enough to need two sessions a week for months after.

So overall, I think there should be a maximum per year, which should be more or less sensible, 5 or 6 weeks seems fine to me. And that time should if possible be split up a bit so clients don't have to go long time without contact. But I also do think that during that time the T should really take time off, not check emails every day, do phone calls and so on. Otherwise it's not time off.

[DP_2017]

I think several weeks a year is ok. They need time away, they need to recharge. I am ok with them not responding to clients then too, they need to step away and clear their mind from work like everyone else does.

My T did a 2 week and it was hard BUT mostly because he told me literally the evening before he was leaving so I was just hit with the shock of it all. I did better than expected by writing him letters and just staying busy. Reminding myself that he was struggling with things too and he needed this time to himself for his own well being. So it made it easier.

I would say a month's worth at least over the course of a year is good. What yours is doing seems way to much, 13-15 weeks. Yikes!

[susannahsays]

I don't think there's a "should," necessarily. I think therapists who take more than a couple weeks off and who accept clients with mental illnesses like PTSD/CPTSD and BPD ought to be upfront about how much vacation time they take at the beginning of treatment. I also think they should be mindful that vacations can be difficult and give advanced warning.

I just don't think it's right to impose a limit to vacation time on anybody, therapists included. However, if I theoretically were to impose restrictions, I would say no more than two weeks off at a time. I would say they would accrue two weeks every four months, so that would be 6 weeks per year.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I think therapists who take more than a couple weeks off and who accept clients with mental illnesses like PTSD/CPTSD and BPD ought to be upfront about how much vacation time they take at the beginning of treatment. I also think they should be mindful that vacations can be difficult and give advanced warning..

Agree, and that's what really messed me up when mind left, the no notice. He was basically like "I'm leaving in the morning" and I spent the entire session in a state of shock basically... and I sobbed when I was walking out. I would have been better with prep. He didn't have much choice as he was forced to go by his work.... BUT he told me about 5 days after he knew and I told him, he should have at least emailed or texted me. He didn't seem to understand.... I did ok with it but it was still hard to deal with.

I doubt if you'll be able to start out with the perks you speak of as those expectations may be more reasonable for someone who has an established reputation, reliability, and overall work history.

Six weeks per year is a week every other month. You also have mental problems as you speak of in other threads-wouldn't you need time off for that?

You may not be successful in building a solo client base so you might want to think about if your expectations coincide with the realities of a newly minted graduate. If you have another source of income or support, perhaps you are deprioritizing these issues, but people may not take as someone serious or dedicated to your profession.

[ArtleyWilkins]

I don't think this can be "shoulded."

Your therapist is a priest. His time off may be spent in sabbatical which is a fairly normal practice with religious leaders (and a needed and necessary one).

A therapist who has created his own practice may have designed it in such a way that he specifically plans for a lengthy period of time off at the same time that, perhaps, his spouse or children have time off. I don't begrudge anyone that kind of time. Professionals who don't take the time to unwind, regroup, decompress, tend to burn out -- no matter what the profession is.

I believe my last therapist probably took of in the neighborhood of two months a year, but his preference was to take it a week or two at a time because that matched up with his partner or his kids and grandkids.

A different one at my university took a full month during the summer (it was probably contractual). He arranged for another therapist on campus to be there for his clients if needed.

In other countries, I understand it is pretty common for professionals to take several months off at a time. That's the cultural norm.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by octoberful

I doubt if you'll be able to start out with the perks you speak of as those expectations may be more reasonable for someone who has an established reputation, reliability, and overall work history.

This is certainly true in the US, although I don't know about Canada. Hardly any therapists here start off in private practice. They generally have to "pay their dues" by working in community mental health or inpatient psych, both of which are high stress, low paying, and definitely don't come with that much time off. Then they progress to working in an agency setting, where there are typically billable marks they have to meet to keep their spot (to pay for overhead) - so a lot of vacation time wouldn't really work. Private practice is typically the ultimate goal for therapists, but it's not something that happens right off the bat.

[WishfulThinker66]

Is this therapist self-employed? They would then be able to take whatever duration of time off they want.

If this therapist is employed at a clinic, they are then governed by laws of employment. Here the entitlement would be 3 wks to start and additional weeks for every established incremental years of employment usually capping off at 6wks.

This is a topic that really gets my goat. It is very irritating to me that so many people seem to want to deny their mental healthcare providers the work-life balance they are entitled to. It is not for us to dictate what they do in their private lives. It is not for us to dictate their choices, for instance, on how they take their law-given right to vacation time. I think it incredibly selfish to expect any individual to live their free time according to our own assumptions and wishes.

Now, the factor of 'need; is entirely a different matter. If this therapist in question is leaving for a long-term duration, they still have professional obligations to their clients. This likely means the provision of an on-call professional for emergency purposes.

Remember, your mental healthcare team does not belong to you and they are not governed by your personal dictates. They have lives.

Just to add clarification, my post was in response to this idea (not someone's right to take, for example, maternity leave or a vacation):

As a self-employed professional, one of the perks is I take time off when I want and when it’s convenient for me.

[stopdog]

The first one took off about 2 months at a time a couple of times. She did not volunteer what she was doing and I did not care enough to ask. I took breaks from appointments with her and she took time off as well. It really did not bother me. The second one took off a few weeks every year as did I. Again - not a huge deal to me one way or the other.
If I thought a therapist was away so much that I found it not useful for me, I would find a different one. I am more surprised when one of those guys takes off months at a time because of how they seem to sell the idea that they are more needed than that usually.
I was always mildly insulted/thought it a bit overly self important when the woman would tell me a month in advance that she was going to be gone for a week. She was not such a big deal to me that the idea of her being away was going to cause me any concern.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by octoberful

I doubt if you'll be able to start out with the perks you speak of as those expectations may be more reasonable for someone who has an established reputation, reliability, and overall work history.

Six weeks per year is a week every other month. You also have mental problems as you speak of in other threads-wouldn't you need time off for that?

You may not be successful in building a solo client base so you might want to think about if your expectations coincide with the realities of a newly minted graduate. If you have another source of income or support, perhaps you are deprioritizing these issues, but people may not take as someone serious or dedicated to your profession.

These are wise things to consider as you think about this, especially taking care of your own needs first as you become a therapist. You aren't going to be any good to your clients if you can't be present and focused, showing up with attention and deep listening. My work requires me to be (only a few days /per month, so far less often than a therapist) focused on a person's story of trauma and if I don't take care of myself, I can't do my job. I think I have some appreciation of what therapists need to do and what it takes to listen and give people your real attention. It's not trivial, and I've been fortunate that I've had good therapists who could do this.

I personally like to know that my therapist is taking care of himself by taking time off. He does this every week, only working 3 days, and he limits his practice to certain kinds of cases. He's become more specialized over the 10 years that I know him, because he can. But he doesn't take a lot of time off in terms of weeks, just 3 per year, maybe 4. Last year he took two weeks at a time off in the summer, and we had a really interesting discussion about balancing work and life and how to create work boundaries that work for you.

So for me it is helpful when my therapist takes time off. I feel empowered because I realize I'm in pretty good shape where I don't "need" therapy and am not dependent on it. And it also gives me a chance to think about how I can organize my schedule better and cordon off time from my own work, in service of having a better life. For me, I appreciate knowing how my T constructs his life to get what he wants-- all my therapists have had stories like this-- and they know how to help me do this. I personally would not work with a therapist who dealt poorly with self care in any way, including taking time off. The time you take off should be for your own needs, not your clients'. I think clients can adapt, although I think as others have said, plenty of notice and planning in the weeks ahead should be discussed, including whether the client needs a backup T or resources for a crisis line or whatever.

[Lemoncake]

2 weeks Christmas
2 weeks Easter
4 weeks summer.

He mentioned his next holiday the day after he just came back. It's already set me off though he recently-ish let me have email contact. Last summer he also gave me a full session whilst he was still officially away.

[piggy momma]

This is very interesting.

For those of you speaking of my current T (who this isn’t really about but I’ll address anyway) - for as long as I’ve known him - 16 years - he goes away every summer. He is done teaching early May and then has a cottage on the other side of the country he goes to til the end of August. It has nothing to do with a religious sabbatical (which he took last academic year, although it wasn’t a religious sabbatical, it was a teaching one). Because his focus is mostly on marriage therapy, he typically doesn’t see clients long term or with issues (BPD) like mine.

Regarding myself - I would think it fair to give all clients as much notice as possible. My vacation impacts them, and they have lives to plan and work around as well. I think telling someone the night before is dishonest and disrespectful. Emergencies happen, yes, but vacations are almost always planned.

I am currently self employed and take a lot of time off. I don’t see why that would change going in to another career field down the road. My time off is important and critical to my own wellbeing and self-care. If it means limiting the type of clientele I take, that’s what I have to do and quite frankly, all Ts should be doing because no T is skilled in every problem that exists.

[ArtleyWilkins]

The other reason your therapist may tend to take most of his time in the summer is that the church calendar year is least demanding during that time. Getting away during winter/spring is next to impossible. It's part of the reality of religious service.

[piggy momma]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

The other reason your therapist may tend to take most of his time in the summer is that the church calendar year is least demanding during that time. Getting away during winter/spring is next to impossible. It's part of the reality of religious service.

He is not in active parish ministry. He only says mass on campus from September to the end of March.

I don't think there's a should. To me her letting me know in advance of her upcoming time off was more important. She didn't take more than a week at a time that I know of, unless it was during one of my breaks and I didn't know about it. I know how much I value vacation away from my job, so I imagine she does too.

[healinginprogress]

This is a hard question. Vacation and rest time is important to everyone. And being in the US, I don't think enough workers get enough of it. On the other hand, the very nature of the therapist-client relationship is different than almost any other "helping" profession. I personally could not be with a therapist who takes off extended time as with the OP. With my relational injuries I need more consistency than that provides. But, as long as that therapist is open with that expectation, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with it.

For me personally, I think 4-5 weeks off, broken into 1-2 weeks at a time, is where I would be comfortable for "vacation time." And that's with the understanding that I would probably still feel slightly abandoned, but I know that's my own baggage!

[elisewin]

My T is off 10-12 weeks a year, half of it in the summer. I think it is a good amount of holiday and I always wish she has enough time to do things she enjoys.

[Echos Myron redux]

I don't think there are any shoulds, people can practise how they wish, but I think they should be upfront about their vacation time at the start of therapy so clients can make an informed choice about whether they want to see that T or not. I wouldn't like a T who takes that much time off. I'm lucky because my T takes next to no time off. Just two weeks this year (one in Feb one in June) then the week of Christmas/new year.

I don't think there are any shoulds, people can practise how they wish

That may be true for some, but not in the US. Here there are ethical standards one must maintain, standards of care, and requirements by insurance companies that governing absences like vacations. Also, if someone has the privilege of a license, that person must adhere to a standard of conduct. So there are 'shoulds' for those in the US. I'd be surprised if there were no shoulds in other geographical areas but never looked into it.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by octoberful

That may be true for some, but not in the US. Here there are ethical standards one must maintain, standards of care, and requirements by insurance companies that governing absences like vacations. Also, if someone has the privilege of a license, that person must adhere to a standard of conduct. So there are 'shoulds' for those in the US. I'd be surprised if there were no shoulds in other geographical areas but never looked into it.

Sounds like you're using "should" as if it's a "must." As for standards of care and ethics, I am only aware of there being an expectation that providers make "reasonable efforts" to arrange alternative care for clients if they are unable to provide it for a period of time. That's not actually a restriction on vacations, though. For example, here's what the APA Code of Ethics has to say on the subject:

3.12 Interruption of Psychological Services
Unless otherwise covered by contract, psychologists make reasonable efforts to plan for facilitating services in the event that psychological services are interrupted by factors such as the psychologist’s illness, death, unavailability, relocation, or retirement or by the client’s/patient’s relocation or financial limitations.

I didn't know insurance companies had any sort of say in the matter. Do you mean the malpractice insurance? I just don't see how such a rule could be enforceable.

I don't know of any legislation or ethics codes that outright force somebody to work a minimum amount in order to not be in violation, but I could be wrong. Everything I've ever heard of just states that providers have to do their due diligence in ensuring alternative care is offered.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by octoberful

That may be true for some, but not in the US. Here there are ethical standards one must maintain, standards of care, and requirements by insurance companies that governing absences like vacations. Also, if someone has the privilege of a license, that person must adhere to a standard of conduct. So there are 'shoulds' for those in the US. I'd be surprised if there were no shoulds in other geographical areas but never looked into it.

Well, I mean, within reason obviously. But yes, things are quite different in the UK compared with the US.

[Lrad123]

I work in the healthcare field and work 4 days/week with 7 weeks off per year although I never take it all. I appreciate that my T has a similar schedule and work ethic, and I completely understand that he’s human and needs time off although his time off has tended to throw me off a bit. In the year and a half I’ve known him it seems like he takes 3 or 4 one week vacations per year and he tells me about his upcoming vacations at least a month in advance. He also works 4 days/week. In addition to that, he has never called in sick, canceled an appointment (even in terrible snowstorms) and he is meticulously on time for every single appointment. All of this consistency is incredibly important to me in ways I never could have anticipated prior to starting therapy.