[Lrad123]

I’ve heard that it’s more common for people to cancel or to think about canceling immediately before or after their T’s vacation. I definitely do this and I think my reason is that I want to show myself that I’m in control. I did fine-ish during his absence but I’m scheduled to see him tomorrow and I have moments were I feel like I might explode with pent up anticipation. I hate that feeling and I’d like it to stop. I know it’s immature but my instinct is to want to not show up to show that I’m in control, I think. Anyone else experience something similar?

[Echos Myron redux]

I never actually do it, but I nearly always think about ghosting or cancelling. T returns from a break tomorrow and I don't want to go. But I do. It is horrible and I go through it so much.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux

I never actually do it, but I nearly always think about ghosting or cancelling. T returns from a break tomorrow and I don't want to go. But I do. It is horrible and I go through it so much.

Do you talk to him about that? I’m trying to decide if it’s worth talking about (again) or if I should just muster through the discomfort and maybe it’ll get better on it’s own. The wanting to not go is such anguish because I also want to go.

[susannahsays]

No. I would be disturbed if I felt like depriving myself of something I would otherwise participate in based off of something like somebody going on vacation. That is not a criticism of the impulse. I just mean that I wouldn't like it if somebody going on vacation indirectly led to me unnecessarily depriving myself. If I actually acted on the impulse, it would probably confirm my suspicion that I am impotent, rather than make me feel empowered. In this sort of situation, I tend to disregard any emotional turmoil I feel and carry on as normal. I guess that makes me feel more in control than if I allowed emotions that I don't like to have a say in my actions. I don't know if that's the "right" thing to do, or if there is a "right" thing to do. But that's what I do.

On a somewhat related note (maybe?), sometimes I think I want to act out to show the therapist she can't control me. When I act out, it is not of the cancelling or no-showing type (but it is definitely acting out, 95% of the time). Sometimes, it is very difficult to resist the temptation. Sometimes I give in. Sometimes I don't even try to resist and gleefully do whatever it is I am going to do. The balance of power is restored, although it comes at a cost. I guess the question that matters here is whether the cost (missing a session) is worth what you gain (feeling more in control, maybe showing something to the therapist - unclear on that).

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

No. I would be disturbed if I felt like depriving myself of something I would otherwise participate in based off of something like somebody going on vacation. That is not a criticism of the impulse. I just mean that I wouldn't like it if somebody going on vacation indirectly led to me unnecessarily depriving myself. If I actually acted on the impulse, it would probably confirm my suspicion that I am impotent, rather than make me feel empowered. In this sort of situation, I tend to disregard any emotional turmoil I feel and carry on as normal. I guess that makes me feel more in control than if I allowed emotions that I don't like to have a say in my actions. I don't know if that's the "right" thing to do, or if there is a "right" thing to do. But that's what I do.

On a somewhat related note (maybe?), sometimes I think I want to act out to show the therapist she can't control me. When I act out, it is not of the cancelling or no-showing type (but it is definitely acting out, 95% of the time). Sometimes, it is very difficult to resist the temptation. Sometimes I give in. Sometimes I don't even try to resist and gleefully do whatever it is I am going to do. The balance of power is restored, although it comes at a cost. I guess the question that matters here is whether the cost (missing a session) is worth what you gain (feeling more in control, maybe showing something to the therapist - unclear on that).

Yeah, I probably won’t cancel, but the urge is strong. I feel this way not infrequently, but can usually make myself go, and am usually even glad I did. The struggle between wanting to go and not go is really tiring. This time it’s clearly prompted by his vacation.

[LonesomeTonight]

Instead of canceling, I apparently just send my T pathetic, needy emails about how I'm anxious about his vacation.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Instead of canceling, I apparently just send my T pathetic, needy emails about how I'm anxious about his vacation.

At least you’re being honest. I think I’m just playing games with myself!

[Amyjay]

It's not playing games, it's just trying to protect yourself. In family systems therapy it could be explained like this: the therapist going away triggered feelings of abandonment or rejection in a hurt child part. A protector steps in to guard the child by not-needing. It takes charge by wanting to reject the therapist to stave off the feelings of the abandoned child. But, while it soothes the child in the moment, when the session is missed it makes the hurt child feel even worse - now not only perceiving abandonment from the therapist but by the self as well!
Look after the child, I say. Even though missing the session will help the protector feel more in control and in charge of the situation, it will hurt the child part more.

ETA: we don't feel like cancelling sessions when the therapist goes away. We make extra sure to deliver the child parts to therapy on time instead, so they can make maximum use out of the time that is available.

[elisewin]

No, I don't have a slightest urge to do that. Those are pretty much the most awaited sessions, otherwise the break would be even longer.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

It's not playing games, it's just trying to protect yourself. In family systems therapy it could be explained like this: the therapist going away triggered feelings of abandonment or rejection in a hurt child part. A protector steps in to guard the child by not-needing. It takes charge by wanting to reject the therapist to stave off the feelings of the abandoned child. But, while it soothes the child in the moment, when the session is missed it makes the hurt child feel even worse - now not only perceiving abandonment from the therapist but by the self as well!
Look after the child, I say. Even though missing the session will help the protector feel more in control and in charge of the situation, it will hurt the child part more.

ETA: we don't feel like cancelling sessions when the therapist goes away. We make extra sure to deliver the child parts to therapy on time instead, so they can make maximum use out of the time that is available.

Thanks for this explanation. I haven’t done IFS (my T is psychodynamic) but I find this interesting. I guess if you look at it this way, the child almost always seems to make it to our session, but it’s a huge struggle and it’s quite painful and I never really know if she’ll make it. It feels easier to deal with when I think of it in parts like that - like I can be a little more understanding if I think of it as a child. I sort of wish my T explained it that way. I wonder when this struggle will go away. It’s been going on for almost 2 years and it’s so disruptive. I just want to look forward to going to my session without all the extra drama.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by elisewin

No, I don't have a slightest urge to do that. Those are pretty much the most awaited sessions, otherwise the break would be even longer.

I know, I know. But a part of me feels like I will be stronger if I prove that I can extend the break by my own free will - even if it’s painful.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Thanks for this explanation. I haven’t done IFS (my T is psychodynamic) but I find this interesting. I guess if you look at it this way, the child almost always seems to make it to our session, but it’s a huge struggle and it’s quite painful and I never really know if she’ll make it. It feels easier to deal with when I think of it in parts like that - like I can be a little more understanding if I think of it as a child. I sort of wish my T explained it that way. I wonder when this struggle will go away. It’s been going on for almost 2 years and it’s so disruptive. I just want to look forward to going to my session without all the extra drama.

Just understanding the dynamic of what is going on internally can be enough to shift it. It's the internal struggle about having valid feelings of attachment and a sense of abandonment while also rejecting any form of attachment to protect the self from that sense of abandonment that makes it all so intense and "immediate". Once you understand the dynamic and the feelings and positive intent behind the two opposing drives it becomes easier to calm it down. Of course the child part wants attachment and connection, and of course the protector part wants to shield the child part from what that sense of rejection. Once you detach from the internal dynamic its much easier for the adult self to say 'it's okay, T is just going away on a much needed vacation and she is coming back."
It's much harder to deal with that when the adult self *knows* that but is overwhelmed or hijacked by the internal drives of the child part and the protector part.

[Lrad123]

Do you think a psychodynamic therapist would talk in terms of IFS or something similar? Because haven’t yet, but breakout down in this way (into parts) seems like it might be easier for me. I guess I’m asking if psychodynamic therapy and IFS are compatible or are they separate?

[Rive.]

No way. Why would I do that? I'd only be punishing me by depriving myself of T for a longer time period.

It's like cutting your nose to spite your face. No benefits in doing that.

[JaneTennison1]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I know, I know. But a part of me feels like I will be stronger if I prove that I can extend the break by my own free will - even if it’s painful.

I'm the same, T went away for 3 weeks and part of me wanted to cancel before she went away. A childish part that says "I don't need you anyway"
and same when she got back. I went to both but yeah the urge was there and I doubt we are alone.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Thanks for this explanation. I haven’t done IFS (my T is psychodynamic) but I find this interesting. I guess if you look at it this way, the child almost always seems to make it to our session, but it’s a huge struggle and it’s quite painful and I never really know if she’ll make it. It feels easier to deal with when I think of it in parts like that - like I can be a little more understanding if I think of it as a child. I sort of wish my T explained it that way. I wonder when this struggle will go away. It’s been going on for almost 2 years and it’s so disruptive. I just want to look forward to going to my session without all the extra drama.

Maybe you could bring up this issue with him again and mention the insights that Amyjay offered. Based on what you have shared about him, it sounds like he would be interested in this take on the issue, since it is one that seems to resound with you. Psychodynamic theory doesn't have parts in the same way as IFS - it doesn't structure things in the same way - but it does recognize competing desires and motivations. The inner conflicts that arise from those are kind of what psychodynamic theory is all about (at least, that's my impression).

[Elio]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Do you think a psychodynamic therapist would talk in terms of IFS or something similar? Because haven’t yet, but breakout down in this way (into parts) seems like it might be easier for me. I guess I’m asking if psychodynamic therapy and IFS are compatible or are they separate?

My T is psychoanalytic and she/we talks in terms of parts similar to how Amyjay describes it. We don't do IFS directly/strictly. I find working, thinking, and talking in parts has been extremely helpful for me. Have you started describing things in terms of your parts? If yes, how did he respond?

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Do you talk to him about that? I’m trying to decide if it’s worth talking about (again) or if I should just muster through the discomfort and maybe it’ll get better on it’s own. The wanting to not go is such anguish because I also want to go.

Yeah, I find it useful to talk about it all. I talk about that paradox of wanting to be there and not wanting to be there too.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Elio

My T is psychoanalytic and she/we talks in terms of parts similar to how Amyjay describes it. We don't do IFS directly/strictly. I find working, thinking, and talking in parts has been extremely helpful for me. Have you started describing things in terms of your parts? If yes, how did he respond?

I saw him today and didn’t bring it up. I see him tomorrow and may mention it then. I think he’ll be fine with it and may even have mentioned something about parts a long time ago.

[Lrad123]

I tried talking about parts today with respect to my therapy ambivalence and my therapist was receptive, but not very helpful in explaining things or elaborating on things I said. I think the folks on PC explain it much better. Now I’m left sort of wishing I had slept in instead of going to my early morning therapy session. Blah.

[coolibrarian]

I realized yesterday, at my session, that while I don't cancel around T's vacation, at the first session after she returns (which yesterday's was), I do tend to shut down, not say much of anything. We discussed the fact that maybe Little Cool was trying to show T what it felt like when T was away: not connecting with her, not talking to her. T said that while she wasn't frustrated, she felt a bit sad. I said that when T was ill, last year (and into this year), I KNOW it wasn't a vacation, but it was still a time when she was away, and unavailable to me. Although Adult Cool understands the healthy need for vacations, Little Cool feels T has been gone enough, already.
I also realized (and WHY it's taken me this long to realize it, who knows?) that when I have positive things going on in my own life (i.e., visiting friends, going to a concert), that I am less stressed about T being away.

[nottrustin]

i think about it but never do. The childish part feels angry that she is going away, feels abandoned, and angry at mtself for needing her. Instead of canceling I get angy and drag myself there with a wall up. I keep that wall up until I get to the appontment. Then the wall comes down and i feel silly for having hadthe wall up and worrying that she wont come back

with T because we still enailed it wasnt nearly as bad

[Elio]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I tried talking about parts today with respect to my therapy ambivalence and my therapist was receptive, but not very helpful in explaining things or elaborating on things I said. I think the folks on PC explain it much better. Now I’m left sort of wishing I had slept in instead of going to my early morning therapy session. Blah.

I'm sorry to hear it wasn't helpful. Do you think it was because of talking about in terms of parts or because of what was being said (the content)?

I have to say that for a while we did a lot more parts talk and work. Then I went through a period where I felt like my T didn't like/believe in the parts or didn't appreciate being forced to deal with them. Now there's a bit more parts talk. I'm still not back to fully believing that they are welcome, or something is holding me back on fully believing. My T has said they are welcomed, that all of me is welcomed, and short of her being proactive in reaching out to a specific part; I don't know what more she could do to make all the parts feel like they are welcomed. She's hesitant to do anything of the sort because it would make it be about her and because she doesn't want to appear to be taking sides between the parts. (paraphrasing things she's actually said) Also, that wouldn't be the way she practices therapy. Everything is almost always me initiated.

I also struggle with the difference between welcomed and wanted. I mostly feel like she's saying sure they can be there, because that's her job to accept them as being me; but it would be easier if I'd just stop being so.... [fill in the blank there]. And that she's just waiting for this part of my therapy to be over with and wondering when she can get down to the serious business of therapy by moving onto the real things (whatever that means).

Yeah, I recognize that this isn't about her at all. It's a sticking point between me and me.

Sorry for the tangent.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Elio

I'm sorry to hear it wasn't helpful. Do you think it was because of talking about in terms of parts or because of what was being said (the content)?

I have to say that for a while we did a lot more parts talk and work. Then I went through a period where I felt like my T didn't like/believe in the parts or didn't appreciate being forced to deal with them. Now there's a bit more parts talk. I'm still not back to fully believing that they are welcome, or something is holding me back on fully believing. My T has said they are welcomed, that all of me is welcomed, and short of her being proactive in reaching out to a specific part; I don't know what more she could do to make all the parts feel like they are welcomed. She's hesitant to do anything of the sort because it would make it be about her and because she doesn't want to appear to be taking sides between the parts. (paraphrasing things she's actually said) Also, that wouldn't be the way she practices therapy. Everything is almost always me initiated.

I also struggle with the difference between welcomed and wanted. I mostly feel like she's saying sure they can be there, because that's her job to accept them as being me; but it would be easier if I'd just stop being so.... [fill in the blank there]. And that she's just waiting for this part of my therapy to be over with and wondering when she can get down to the serious business of therapy by moving onto the real things (whatever that means).

Yeah, I recognize that this isn't about her at all. It's a sticking point between me and me.

Sorry for the tangent.

I just generally talked about how the idea of parts really clicks for me at least when trying to understand the ambivalence I feel about therapy. He was accepting but maybe I didn’t explain it well because it just fizzled out. What I really want is for this idea of my ambivalence towards therapy to be understood by him. He’s nice about it, but I don’t get the impression that her really “gets” it and I don’t know how to explain it. I feel tormented by the immense urge to cancel vs the desire to go. It’s not getting any better and in fact may be getting worse. It’s snowballing I to some huge thing and has become a distraction from my actual therapy.

I understand what you mean about welcomed vs wanted. There’s a huge difference between the two. I feel it also.

[Lrad123]

Do you think it’s possible to be mad at your T for going on vacation without knowing that you’re mad about it? I did ok not seeing him for 2 weeks and I was proud of myself for not even emailing him. My first session back was ok, but then after my 2nd session (I have 2 sessions on consecutive days) I emailed saying I wanted a break for the rest of the summer. Being mad about T’s taking vacation seems ridiculous to me from a logical standpoint, but could it be some unconscious abandonment thing without my even having a clue? Or would you always have a hunch?